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Prepainted?

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2 minutes ago, Megatronrex said:

Stop giving away my plans;)

If you're in the U.S. and end up making an army of pink-and-white Imperials, I would feel obligated to drive to where you live to play a match.

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57 minutes ago, Alino said:

Also, I look forward to seeing the Fabulous-Oh-First if anybody makes it. I mean, who doesn't want to see a Pink Vader leading Pink Stormtroopers with a huge Pink&White AT-ST?

I'm pretty sure EA would have a fit about this. NO ALTERNATIVE SKINS EVER! Gotta keep it canon or Disney will send you to jail.

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Just now, Alino said:

If you're in the U.S. and end up making an army of pink-and-white Imperials, I would feel obligated to drive to where you live to play a match.

I live in South Carolina and yes I do plan on doing some pink Imperials. I have a pink Raider and TIE Interceptor for Armada with plans to do a full matching task force when I get the time. I also want to see about getting a Lord Helmet figure printed to sub for Vader sometimes in casual games.

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Since this topic isn't old yet, and people will be coming across it as we ramp up to release, I thought I'd add to it instead of throwing this into another topic.

Here is some clarification of several posts that mentioned how WizKids had done painted vs unpainted and how it is still possible at some point.  However, I would point out that WizKids probably has more expertise in this area vs FFG so it's quite possible FFG's manufacturer just isn't at that level yet.

Both of these miniatures games (the second one not so much as the first one) were released in two formats. 

For the hobbyists and/or economically restricted players there was a Standard Edition - all miniatures (42 in the top one, I believe) were single color/unpainted depending on how you define it. 

For players that did not wish to paint, were a bit more economically capable, or didn't care that the quality of the paint schemes were 'good enough', they released a Premium Edition of the game (approximately 2x the price) with fully pre-painted miniatures.  In this manner the pre-painted group were not subsidized by the unpainted group (probably the other way if any), and each group got what they wanted.

I can't say whether they will continue this experiment, but it is being done nonetheless.  I am guessing that if the Premium versions fail to meet company goals then they will just continue to release unpainted versions and move on.

https://wizkids.com/toaboardgame/

https://wizkids.com/assault-of-the-giants-board-game/

Some images here.  While they may not look as good as some hobbyist painters, they definitely look a lot better than many amateur (including myself) warhammer paintjobs I used to experience.  The detail varies depending upon the size of the miniature (from tiny to large in improving order).  I wouild imagine most Star Wars figs would be somewhere in the middle size-wise. "Good Enough For Me"

https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/228668/dungeons-dragons-tomb-annihilation-board-game/images

https://techraptor.net/content/tomb-annihilation-board-game-review-beer-pretzels-death-curse

Again, I realize it's already been decided and is moot (unless they add premium sets later either in-house or by farming them out to someone like WizKids), but this post is really to put a visual to what others have mentioned previously in the thread.  For what it's worth, after years of painting warhammer 40k and having the extra money to spend I went with the premium versions of these sets at full price when they released.

The only problem I could foresee is if they had to sacrifice quality/detail on the base miniature to make it work, which would result in a lower quality unpainted model as well.  That's not something that's knowable by an outsider at this point other than baseless speculation since it would depend entirely on their manufacturer's process unless they have done it previously.

 

anyway.. hope that clears the visuals up a bit.

Tomb-of-Annihilation-Mini-closeup.png.3d50ea33594ef1d4b0160e92bdf8ef3d.png

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@CyberNigma I feel that comparing a board game to a miniature game is a bit of apples and oranges though. Yes the board game minis look better painted, but you aren't going to have multiple people bringing their prepainted miniatures to play to board game and mix them up/steal them. X-wing/armada included ways to put makers on the bases of the ships to avoid confusion, infantry do not have such a luxury.

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FFG have done the “premium”pre paints for a Miniatures game before too, with DUST. They obviously decided for whatever reason (and being realistic, the primary reason a company like this does or doesn’t do something is profitability) not to do it this time.

If it made money before, I can’t imagine them not doing it again. I can only assume that for either time, technical or profit reasons it somply wasn’t smart.

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6 minutes ago, Extropia said:

FFG have done the “premium”pre paints for a Miniatures game before too, with DUST. They obviously decided for whatever reason (and being realistic, the primary reason a company like this does or doesn’t do something is profitability) not to do it this time.

If it made money before, I can’t imagine them not doing it again. I can only assume that for either time, technical or profit reasons it somply wasn’t smart.

They felt the pricepoint they would have to charge was unreasonably high this time around. It's been stated in interviews.

They may have done it before, but from what i understand that was years ago. that doesn't mean they can do it again while being commercially viable.

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44 minutes ago, Extropia said:

FFG have done the “premium”pre paints for a Miniatures game before too, with DUST. They obviously decided for whatever reason (and being realistic, the primary reason a company like this does or doesn’t do something is profitability) not to do it this time.

If it made money before, I can’t imagine them not doing it again. I can only assume that for either time, technical or profit reasons it somply wasn’t smart.

Yeah, as I mentioned in my post I suspect that their process is not as refined as the manufacturer WizKids uses.  They have been doing painted minis for much longer so that would probably be one of the sticking issues.  Also related to pricing as well.

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1 minute ago, CyberNigma said:

Yeah, as I mentioned in my post I suspect that their process is not as refined as the manufacturer WizKids uses.  They have been doing painted minis for much longer so that would probably be one of the sticking issues.  Also related to pricing as well.

Additionally, there may be certain limitations placed upon them related to the license, either in regards to price point, or painting. 

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1 hour ago, Caimheul1313 said:

@CyberNigma I feel that comparing a board game to a miniature game is a bit of apples and oranges though. Yes the board game minis look better painted, but you aren't going to have multiple people bringing their prepainted miniatures to play to board game and mix them up/steal them. X-wing/armada included ways to put makers on the bases of the ships to avoid confusion, infantry do not have such a luxury.

board game, miniatures game, tabletop game... those are just semantics when we're just talking about the miniatures for the most part.  there is a lot of crossover in games.  I would say it's apples to apples.  It's probably more or less equivalent to Imperial Assault but still close enough.  Keep in mind, I'm just using these as reference.  Obviously they would not be identical.  Even when talking bases, I don't think I saw anything special at the Legion demos I saw (ala x-wing/armada).  I think the bases just looked like every other wargame (with the problems you mentioned).

again, I'm really only just putting a picture to what other people brought up :-)

EDIT: I guess we could throw in Icons of the Realms, but they tend to make their money via random boosters to offset other costs.

 

Edited by CyberNigma

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11 minutes ago, Caimheul1313 said:

Additionally, there may be certain limitations placed upon them related to the license, either in regards to price point, or painting. 

Yeah, it probably has more to do with the cost of the license than anything else.  I imagine the D&D license is much cheaper, thus 80 dollars for 42 unpainted miniatures/160 dollars for painted miniatures with TOA may be much, much more palatable than 33 at a similar price.

Anyway, we know it's moot now, but at least there is an example and some references/pictures people can look at where it has been done with another property.  It doesn't have to be one or the other if they can manage to do both.  I think the same could go for X-Wing and Armada for those that didn't want to pay for the pre-painted costs because they intended to paint it themselves.

I will say, one of the things that originally sold me on Warhammer 40k was seeing armies that were painted in a decent manner.  If my first encounter was gray or really poorly painted/spraypainted armies then I may have dismissed it (wrongly so, but nonetheless)...  Painted minis are a good marketer.

Edited by CyberNigma

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2 minutes ago, CyberNigma said:

board game, miniatures game, tabletop game... those are just semantics when we're just talking about the miniatures for the most part.  there is a lot of crossover in games.  I would say it's apples to apples.  It's probably more or less equivalent to Imperial Assault but still close enough.  Keep in mind, I'm just using these as reference.  Obviously they would not be identical.  Even when talking bases, I don't think I saw anything special at the Legion demos I saw (ala x-wing/armada).  I think the bases just looked like every other wargame (with the problems you mentioned).

again, I'm really only just putting a picture to what other people brought up :-)

I understand, but the quality of miniature is often VASTLY different. The models in board games tend to be a very soft plastic that typically is not as good for crisp details in addition to being prone to warping and bending. As many board games are not purchased on the strength of the miniatures, this is acceptable as long as the game is fun.

On the other hand miniature wargames tend to have firmer plastics which allow for crisper details and hold their form better. In addition to paying for painting for these models FFG would have to pay for assembly. Shipping an assembled AT-ST would be more expensive and risky as the parts would not pack as small.

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4 minutes ago, Caimheul1313 said:

I understand, but the quality of miniature is often VASTLY different. The models in board games tend to be a very soft plastic that typically is not as good for crisp details in addition to being prone to warping and bending. As many board games are not purchased on the strength of the miniatures, this is acceptable as long as the game is fun.

On the other hand miniature wargames tend to have firmer plastics which allow for crisper details and hold their form better. In addition to paying for painting for these models FFG would have to pay for assembly. Shipping an assembled AT-ST would be more expensive and risky as the parts would not pack as small.

I believe these miniatures are made with the same quality as the Icons of the Realms line which are made for Tabletop RPG (D&D in this case).  Those typically have to hold up to a lot of wear and tear and need to be detailed enough to portray individual characters.  Tabletop RPG players are probably more picky about their minis than wargamers having been part of both communities, with the exception of special characters in wargames.  Just as in wargames (including x-wing/armada) you will still have players that prefer to paint their own characters, of course.

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1 minute ago, CyberNigma said:

I believe these miniatures are made with the same quality as the Icons of the Realms line which are made for Tabletop RPG (D&D in this case).  Those typically have to hold up to a lot of wear and tear and need to be detailed enough to portray individual characters.  Tabletop RPG players are probably more picky about their minis than wargamers having been part of both communities, with the exception of special characters in wargames.  Just as in wargames (including x-wing/armada) you will still have players that prefer to paint their own characters, of course.

Most glued/hard minis I've seen fall off tables onto hard floors required fixing afterwards, but that may have just been my personal experience.  Even x-wing/armada is subject to that.  I think the only ones I've encountered that weren't were from WizKids back in the day - Mage Knight.  Their quality was definitely not on par with modern miniatures, but it was one of their early attempts, I believe.

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12 minutes ago, CyberNigma said:

I believe these miniatures are made with the same quality as the Icons of the Realms line which are made for Tabletop RPG (D&D in this case).  Those typically have to hold up to a lot of wear and tear and need to be detailed enough to portray individual characters.  Tabletop RPG players are probably more picky about their minis than wargamers having been part of both communities, with the exception of special characters in wargames.  Just as in wargames (including x-wing/armada) you will still have players that prefer to paint their own characters, of course.

Ah, I was thinking they were of the quality of the older D&D board games, or when Wizards of the Coast did their own minis. I have not purchased any of the recent D&D minis as I have so many from 3.5 which still work. In my personal experience, RPG players really only care about the quality of their personal miniature, which would be how Hero Forge makes their money, the monsters depend on the pickiness of the GM. 

Attempting to secure a fully painted and assembled AT-ST would still be an expensive prospect for FFG, without doing "paint to order." For a similar price to the difference in cost between painted and unpainted, one may be able to find a member of a local club that enjoys painting and assembling miniatures.

9 minutes ago, CyberNigma said:

Most glued/hard minis I've seen fall off tables onto hard floors required fixing afterwards, but that may have just been my personal experience.  Even x-wing/armada is subject to that.  I think the only ones I've encountered that weren't were from WizKids back in the day - Mage Knight.  Their quality was definitely not on par with modern miniatures, but it was one of their early attempts, I believe.

I haven't had that problem with X-Wing as of yet, and my armada minis have thus far avoided hard impacts with the ground. But yes, that is always a possibility when something hits another surface. Metal minis are always the worse for it, simply because the material doesn't have as much give. 

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