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Prepainted?

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2 minutes ago, ozmodon said:

Personally  I think it would sell twice as much if it was prepainted. Most people just don't have the time to paint and the ones who do want to can paint over the existing paint. It's what made X-wing sell so much.

You're late to this discussion, it's been explained a hundred times on this forum already. If a hobby in tabletop wargaming doesn't interest you, then this tabletop wargame isn't for you.

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25 minutes ago, ozmodon said:

Personally  I think it would sell twice as much if it was prepainted. Most people just don't have the time to paint and the ones who do want to can paint over the existing paint. It's what made X-wing sell so much.

If they could get the quality to that of the current x-wing minis, i'd be in favor of prepainted, I'd only because the quality control for x-wing painting is pretty decent.  Otherwise, if it would be more like WotC, I'll pass....

And really, if they decided that Imperial Assault isn't worth prepainting, why would they here?

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51 minutes ago, Gadgetron said:

If they could get the quality to that of the current x-wing minis, i'd be in favor of prepainted, I'd only because the quality control for x-wing painting is pretty decent.  Otherwise, if it would be more like WotC, I'll pass....

And really, if they decided that Imperial Assault isn't worth prepainting, why would they here?

I understand  Hasbro has a hand in Imperial Assault.  With Legion the figures are a lot larger and far more detailed. IA may be facing Extinction in a few years.

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59 minutes ago, ozmodon said:

I understand  Hasbro has a hand in Imperial Assault.  With Legion the figures are a lot larger and far more detailed. IA may be facing Extinction in a few years.

It's like we've had all these discussions already. Repeatedly.

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6 hours ago, Patteous said:

Unassembled as well. 

Unmolded, too.

2 hours ago, ozmodon said:

Personally  I think it would sell twice as much if it was prepainted. Most people just don't have the time to paint and the ones who do want to can paint over the existing paint. It's what made X-wing sell so much.

Look at the painted versions of games with minis. Compare the cost and maybe check around to see which version is more popular.  I understand the convenience of prepaints, but what of the quality for the price? X-wing has decent paint jobs, yet many players repaint, touch up, or add more  detail after the fact. How much are you willing to pay for a pre-painted starter? The minimum cost is usually 150% compared to unpainted, but for this (looking at other FFG premium versions) we'd probably be closer to 300%. I don't see a $250-$300 core set selling twice as much as a $90 unpainted. Painting stormies shouldn't be too difficult or time consuming.  As long as your models pass the 4 foot test, you'll be fine!

2 hours ago, Wired4War said:

You're late to this discussion, it's been explained a hundred times on this forum already. If a hobby in tabletop wargaming doesn't interest you, then this tabletop wargame isn't for you.

I must be broken. I have about a dozen unpainted armies and I still like table top. :P 

1 hour ago, Gadgetron said:

If they could get the quality to that of the current x-wing minis, i'd be in favor of prepainted, I'd only because the quality control for x-wing painting is pretty decent.  Otherwise, if it would be more like WotC, I'll pass....

And really, if they decided that Imperial Assault isn't worth prepainting, why would they here?

The two games aren't mutually inclusive.  See the above response about cost increase.  Also, X-wing is a lot cheaper ship to ship.  I could field one or two decent lists in X-Wing, if not more, for the same (low end) price of a painted IA core.

 

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Guest Wrath87
25 minutes ago, ozmodon said:

Any one can say cost prevents them from being prepainted but seeing how X-wing is the number one  miniature game in sales. That argument  seems to not have any foundation to stand on.

The have to pay someone to glue, paint and quality control pre-painted miniatures. On vehicles that's one a 50-100% mark up on the cost. Not too many curved surfaces compared to a character figure. No faces. Nice gaps between the armour usually to finish with a wash. Characters that have faces, hair and uniforms like the rebel troopers are a lot harder. If they do pre-painted it would have to look good like x-wing which would be harder because of the above. If it doesn't look good not only would the people who don't want pre-painted figures not buy it the ones who want pre-painted figures wouldn't buy it.

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On 8/27/2017 at 4:03 PM, Guest Wrath87 said:

The have to pay someone to glue, paint and quality control pre-painted miniatures. On vehicles that's one a 50-100% mark up on the cost. Not too many curved surfaces compared to a character figure. No faces. Nice gaps between the armour usually to finish with a wash. Characters that have faces, hair and uniforms like the rebel troopers are a lot harder. If they do pre-painted it would have to look good like x-wing which would be harder because of the above. If it doesn't look good not only would the people who don't want pre-painted figures not buy it the ones who want pre-painted figures wouldn't buy it.

Being a huge FFG fan of many years. I can see them doing  limited runs of prepainted miniatures . They have for many of there other games and yes at twice the base cost. They did a fine job in DUST.

Edited by ozmodon

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1 hour ago, ozmodon said:

Being a huge FFG fan of many years. I can see them doing  limited runs of prepainted miniatures . They have for many of there other games and yes at twice the nase cost. They did a fine job in DUST.

They only published Dust Tactics so I think they had nothing to do with their premium miniatures line, and these days painted Dust minis cost a little more than double the price of unpainted ones so I'd say there isn't that big of a market there. The core box would cost a little bit over 179,90$.

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6 minutes ago, Raging Celt said:

Prepainted is bad mmkay? Seriously. They tend to be trash. X-wing and Armada are the exception. Everything else tends to be garbage.

Totally. In addition to those being easy to paint ships, they also require only a handful of models per player instead of dozens.

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I wouldnt want mine pre painted by some asian lad. Nor would I want them assembled. What I do want is more difficult kits to assemble and options. Guys just grab a can of white spray paint from poundland, give it a good 5 minute shake till your arm is tired, then spray away. Afterwards wash it down with a black ink wash or rather grab a fine tipped sharpie <(o.o)-b

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20 hours ago, ozmodon said:

Personally  I think it would sell twice as much if it was prepainted. Most people just don't have the time to paint and the ones who do want to can paint over the existing paint. It's what made X-wing sell so much.

Don't mind the rest of the crowd here.  They're just defensive of their niche.  They fear outsiders making changes to things they are comfortable with.  It's perfectly normal and natural.  It's human nature.

Go back and dig into early X-Wing forums and you see people complaining about how they were pre-painted. They posted tips and instructions for stripping paint.  They said it would drive people away.  It was the same element, saying that pre-painting is bad because it was different than what they were used to. But you also see people who were tired of painting miniatures, and you see a HUGE group of people that had no experience with painted and didn't want to learn that were finally drawn to miniatures.  The game expanded the niche.  Inevitably, some from the niche were offended by outsiders taking part in their hobby.  These new people weren't pure.  They didn't have armies of WH40k stuff collected and painted over decades.  How dare they encroach on our hobby!  They'll tell you this game isn't for you (despite your interest in the game) if you don't like painting.  They'll tell you any way but their way is bad (despite any evidence to the contrary).

The groups that hit the forums are the hardcore fans.  The ones that live, breath, eat, and sleep this stuff.  For X-Wing and Armada they make up a tiny sliver of the total population of players, but they are the majority of the forum participants.  So it's not a good sampling of opinions.

Is legion pre-painted? No

Will they release pre-painted versions? Not likely

Will it effect sales? Absolutely?  Will it be enough to affect the health of the game?  Who knows, only time will tell.  And the draw of the IP might be enough to overcome the shortcomings of the painting issue. 

Will either side change the other's mind? No.

Is either side wrong? No.  That's the problem, and the reason this topic of conversation will endure for quite some time.

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18 hours ago, ozmodon said:

Any one can say cost prevents them from being prepainted but seeing how X-wing is the number one  miniature game in sales. That argument  seems to not have any foundation to stand on.

How many models are on the table on average for a game of X-wing? 7? 8?

How many models are in the Legion Core Set?  30?  And that's about half the build total of a normal game size, less if you consider the 2 commanders are your large build buys.  A game of Legion is going to have easily 8 times more models on the table then X-wing.

An X-wing Core Set is $40 for 3 painted models.  The Legion Core Set is $90 for 10 times that number of unpainted models. Can you not see how much more expensive the Legion Core Set would be if all 30 of those models were painted?

X-wing and Armada are pre-painted because you utilize a fairly low number of models in a given game, thus people will spend a higher amount of money for individual models. They won't need many, so the $15 price tag for even the smallest models isn't unreasonable. But in Legion a single squad of Stormtroopers are more models then you bring to a game of X-wing.  You can't sustain a higher cost per model for Legion because you need so many more models.  You've made a specious comparison

Furthermore, vehicles are much easier to paint then people.  You can get good results using very simple and quick techniques on vehicles.  The same can not be said for people.  Using those same techniques on trooper model will yield a much lower quality result.  That will take more time and skill, increasing the cost of getting it done.

Your argument is based on a false equivalency and doesn't consider the difference in scope of the games you are comparing. For you to not address that while claiming others have no foundation for their argument is not well reasoned.

Edited by ScottieATF

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22 hours ago, Wired4War said:

You're late to this discussion, it's been explained a hundred times on this forum already. If a hobby in tabletop wargaming doesn't interest you, then this tabletop wargame isn't for you.

Sorry to say you're wrong. I love tabletop miniature wargaming (as a grognard could explain to you a real wargame uses cardboard chits). I love to shove around beautfiul figurines on beatiful terrain. FFG could sell me a ton of prepaints. If they do not I will comission them to a trusted painter. 

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1 hour ago, kmanweiss said:

Don't mind the rest of the crowd here.  They're just defensive of their niche.  They fear outsiders making changes to things they are comfortable with.  It's perfectly normal and natural.  It's human nature.

 

That's just stupid, I would love more prepainted minis of decent or better quality as I have tons of minis I should/would want to paint but it seems it's not doable or more companies would have done it.

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3 hours ago, ScottieATF said:

How many models are on the table on average for a game of X-wing? 7? 8?

How many models are in the Legion Core Set?  30?  And that's about half the build total of a normal game size, less if you consider the 2 commanders are your large build buys.  A game of Legion is going to have easily 8 times more models on the table then X-wing.

An X-wing Core Set is $40 for 3 painted models.  The Legion Core Set is $90 for 10 times that number of unpainted models. Can you not see how much more expensive the Legion Core Set would be if all 30 of those models were painted?

X-wing and Armada are pre-painted because you utilize a fairly low number of models in a given game, thus people will spend a higher amount of money for individual models. They won't need many, so the $15 price tag for even the smallest models isn't unreasonable. But in Legion a single squad of Stormtroopers are more models then you bring to a game of X-wing.  You can't sustain a higher cost per model for Legion because you need so many more models.  You've made a specious comparison

Furthermore, vehicles are much easier to paint then people.  You can get good results using very simple and quick techniques on vehicles.  The same can not be said for people.  Using those same techniques on trooper model will yield a much lower quality result.  That will take more time and skill, increasing the cost of getting it done.

Your argument is based on a false equivalency and doesn't consider the difference in scope of the games you are comparing. For you to not address that while claiming others have no foundation for their argument is not well reasoned.

There was nothing false in what I said! X-wing is the number one selling miniature game on the market! Oh yeah, it's prepainted too.

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