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clanofwolves

The 'game-shortening doctrine' ...a theory

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I've heard through friends that are in the 'sphere of knowing' a little anyway, that the FFG has clearly stated that they don't want games to lengthen but shorten, that's why the red dice creep has been increased in recent waves, it's not to boost sales of new product exactly. Maybe, but really? If so, then  what about the ridiculous boost to the already ridiculous Rebel regen in Wave 11? More TLT is not fun, but I guess it can shorten games? It seems the designers are not on the same page exactly, for one design boosts durability here (Lowrick and Selfishness) and another limits or reduces it there (arc-caster Rebel and Scum Only and TIE/X7 4.3.2 nerf examples). I think FFG either: 1) wants the game moving in a cyclical fashion, now going from Scum OP to Rebel OP and the imbalance is planned ahead (the tinfoil hat conspiracy), 2) they are so unorganized internally that they are unable to grasp the overall game mechanics they're creating during design (for releases) or in real-time (for FAQ fixes), or 3) they are so overworked in other games they simply don't have the time to work out these mechanics to stay on top of it and fix or reset broken components. 

If the latter is the case, it's sad, for I've been told X-Wing is their golden goose currently....they should treat it like it's special. Because to me, it is. ?

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I was actually thinking about this today (not the conspiracy stuff though). A long time ago standard games were 60 minutes long, which I preferred, but big base point banks were such an issue that FFG extended games to 75 as well as bringing in half points. Now Miranda and Nym fill that same archetype and are a similar problem. As much as we complain about red dice power creep it is a check on this less fun build style and helps keep games quick, and the speed of x-wing was one of the things that lured me over from 40k.

 

As for the Biggs buff we got in Lowhrick, no one saw that coming and fingers are still crossed that it means a nerf is imminent...

Edited by Rogue Nine
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9 minutes ago, Rogue Nine said:

As for the Biggs buff we got in Lowhrick, no one saw that coming and fingers are still crossed that it means a nerf is imminent...

Yeah, that one's a puzzle as guys I know couldn't say but "knew" a Biggs replacement kinda thing was coming to assist the nerfed Biggs role in the woeful and allegedly hapless Rebel squads....but the rest of the FAQ was apparently shelved for an unknown reason. The timing is certainly interesting at the least.

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I'm not trolling but is Biggs really that bad? I played FSR 2 several times over the last several days and went 3w-2l. With the exception of the R2-D4 mech that allows Biggs to swap hits for stress, DTF and Selflessness still damages the squad. If Lowhhrick uses his ability to give Biggs an evade then he loses his protection. Controlling the range of the engagement has been a consistent topic over the years and if you can do that you should have at least one ship to target that Biggs won't protect.

Now I'm speaking from a strictly casual and store tourney perspective and feelings and results may be different in a more competitive environment.

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4 hours ago, Rogue Nine said:

I was actually thinking about this today (not the conspiracy stuff though). A long time ago standard games were 60 minutes long, which I preferred, but big base point banks were such an issue that FFG extended games to 75 as well as bringing in half points. Now Miranda and Nym fill that same archetype and are a similar problem. As much as we complain about red dice power creep it is a check on this less fun build style and helps keep games quick, and the speed of x-wing was one of the things that lured me over from 40k.

 

As for the Biggs buff we got in Lowhrick, no one saw that coming and fingers are still crossed that it means a nerf is imminent...

um, literally hundreds of people saw the lowhrick biggs problem immediately in the preview. it was even refernced by FFG in the Auzituck gunship preview. dozens of people commented about the issue and theorized that Biggs would obviously get nerfed before wave 11 release, because if he didnt then Biggs would be nearly impossible to kill. when that nerf didnt come it was pretty obvious that Lowrick was designed to work with Biggs in a broken way

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Shortening the average game length is a good idea. Cruise Missiles and Harpoon Missiles appear to be direct attempts at this goal. Releasing Lowhrick & Selflessness is definitely a mystery.

I have wanted a nerf to R2-D2 for years now. That Gencon final with R2-D2 Corran was a horrible example of what too much defense does to the game of X-wing. They created tools to counter Soontir. It's time to finally address R2-D2 regen. Poe with R2-D2 & com relay also is a stupid ship.

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29 minutes ago, Vontoothskie said:

um, literally hundreds of people saw the lowhrick biggs problem immediately in the preview. it was even refernced by FFG in the Auzituck gunship preview. dozens of people commented about the issue and theorized that Biggs would obviously get nerfed before wave 11 release, because if he didnt then Biggs would be nearly impossible to kill. when that nerf didnt come it was pretty obvious that Lowrick was designed to work with Biggs in a broken way

I don't understand why people continue to say Biggs is almost impossible to kill. Selflessness is a one time use and the carrier takes the damage. Biggs always dies and usually in a non-spectacular fashion. R4-D6 keeps Biggs from dying due to catastrophic damage. DTF puts a single crit on another ship so Biggs suffers from more than one crit in an attack.

He is a pain in the posterior to deal with but so was Soontir before bombs, Whisper before the Phantom nerf and certain PWT still are. If Biggs does get nerfed I hope FFG comes up with something to make the Rebel lead sleds either cheaper or more effective.

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From a casual perspective, I haven't found Biggs to be that big a problem.  If my opponent keeps him safe, like trying to park him at range 3 so he gets the extra green or whatever, I can manage positioning well enough to keep Biggs out a little further than he wants to be.  If he isn't in range, I can't attack him, or if he isn't in arc, I can't attack him.  If they play less conservatively with Biggs, I can pile in enough damage to quickly kill his humble T-65 meat shield and get on to more important targets.  Admittedly, I haven't faced him with Wookiee support yet, but that's probably not going to happen, either.  I buy most of the X-wing material for my gaming group, and I have no plans to buy the Auzituck.

On his own, Biggs is a quarter of a standard list and that quarter is designed to suck damage.  So, make him suck it.  Kill him quickly and let him take all of the attacks he can.  As he did over the Death Star, he'll perish, and ideally, his death will accomplish nothing.

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3 minutes ago, MarekMandalore said:

From a casual perspective, I haven't found Biggs to be that big a problem.  If my opponent keeps him safe, like trying to park him at range 3 so he gets the extra green or whatever, I can manage positioning well enough to keep Biggs out a little further than he wants to be.  If he isn't in range, I can't attack him, or if he isn't in arc, I can't attack him.  If they play less conservatively with Biggs, I can pile in enough damage to quickly kill his humble T-65 meat shield and get on to more important targets.  Admittedly, I haven't faced him with Wookiee support yet, but that's probably not going to happen, either.  I buy most of the X-wing material for my gaming group, and I have no plans to buy the Auzituck.

On his own, Biggs is a quarter of a standard list and that quarter is designed to suck damage.  So, make him suck it.  Kill him quickly and let him take all of the attacks he can.  As he did over the Death Star, he'll perish, and ideally, his death will accomplish nothing.

A reasonable voice is heard thru the din!

Reading some of these posts about Biggs being "un-killable" you'd swear he was rolling 8 greens!

 

 

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When I've played Rebels, I've never liked the idea of using Biggs for exactly that reason. I see him forcing focus fire, where I'd rather play my maneuvers as best I can to force my enemy to spread their attacks and spread the damage, so that nothing dies too quickly and everything has time to earn the points I spent on it.

Maybe I missed the Biggs molecular-bonded shell invincibility upgrade?

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7 hours ago, Stoneface said:

I don't understand why people continue to say Biggs is almost impossible to kill. Selflessness is a one time use and the carrier takes the damage. Biggs always dies and usually in a non-spectacular fashion. R4-D6 keeps Biggs from dying due to catastrophic damage. DTF puts a single crit on another ship so Biggs suffers from more than one crit in an attack.

He is a pain in the posterior to deal with but so was Soontir before bombs, Whisper before the Phantom nerf and certain PWT still are. If Biggs does get nerfed I hope FFG comes up with something to make the Rebel lead sleds either cheaper or more effective.

beccause unless youre running ordinance, you have 2-3 turns with no damage getting past biggs, during which your list gets chewed up. I did a biggs list with 4 tala squadrons with assault missiles, and if someone is flying in anything aproaching formation they get erased. biggs isnt unbeatable, hes just unreasonable

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5 minutes ago, Vontoothskie said:

beccause unless youre running ordinance, you have 2-3 turns with no damage getting past biggs, during which your list gets chewed up. I did a biggs list with 4 tala squadrons with assault missiles, and if someone is flying in anything aproaching formation they get erased. biggs isnt unbeatable, hes just unreasonable

This is where I have to disagree with you. In your example it's obvious that jousting is a bad idea.

Your play style has to change depending on the squad you're facing. Use boosts and/or barrel rolls to control range. While he can be within R1 of his squad mates he can be just outside R3 of your guns. Patience and positioning are very important. I've lost too many games by being impatient and trying to force the encounter.

Biggs is a royal pain in the **** to deal with. No argument there. He's not unbeatable or unreasonable, just a PITA. Wednesday I lost a FSR 2 squad to Double Edge, Backdraft and I think Omega Leader. I would have been 0-2 if my opponent hadn't mis-judged my move and ended up tokenless at R1 in front of 3 of my ships with Backdraft in the second game. 

You see the impatience in some new chess players. They want to unleash hate and discontent as soon as possible. They lose and usually pretty quick.

 

 

 

 

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Just see how long any fsr lasts once the other meta lists shoehorn harpoons in over plasma's. With how close this is it's almost a non discussion. And they had to have them in the works when wave 11 was announced, so.......... planned to be a flash in the pan?

Edited by Ralgon

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Or you could just deal with Nym and TLT which is the real scourge of the meta. Fair Ship can be beat, it probably will get beat by any semi decent top cut player. 

I managed top 4 at a Store Championshop today. I beat the only Biggs list I saw on the way there. The top 4 had no Biggs, 2 Nym's (1 for each side), 3 lists that were all turrets, 5 TLTs over 7 ships, 5 bombing ships as well. 

Me - the only fool crazy enough to play Imperials, all arcs,  no turrets. I had fun don't get me wrong, but TLT and Turrets were everywhere. 

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4 hours ago, DodgingArcs said:

Or you could just deal with Nym and TLT which is the real scourge of the meta. Fair Ship can be beat, it probably will get beat by any semi decent top cut player. 

I managed top 4 at a Store Championshop today. I beat the only Biggs list I saw on the way there. The top 4 had no Biggs, 2 Nym's (1 for each side), 3 lists that were all turrets, 5 TLTs over 7 ships, 5 bombing ships as well. 

Me - the only fool crazy enough to play Imperials, all arcs,  no turrets. I had fun don't get me wrong, but TLT and Turrets were everywhere. 

TLT is awful no arguement here.

Nym though I think is a different story. We just need to play more things that counter him. Cant think of anything better than a PS10 RAC.

If you want to fly Imperial Arc aces you kinda must bring Palp/Kylo. Put the opponents pilot skill where you want it. Blind the other "alway" gets shots turret boats people run (dash/rey/dengar/miranda).

And you can temporarly enjoy dodging arcs again, while your opponent contemplates the consequences of bringing PS10 TLT nym to games. 

Edited by Boom Owl

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I would say the main advantage you do get with fsr is that you know (most of the time) that your opponent will be targeting Biggs.

The only major gain from this is that you know exactly where you need to stack your defensive mods; you can pile as many focus/evade tokens onto Biggs as your list allows and utilise as many damage reduction effects & things that trigger on Biggs being attacked as possible. All safe in the knowledge that Biggs will be getting fired on and you will be getting full use out of these things.

In simplest terms you make them attack the most fortified target in your list and then proceed to spread the damage that comes through around as you want to (as much as the list allows).

 

It's a strong tactic. I wouldn't say it's overpowered especially considering that fsr as a list does not have great maneuverability.

Without careful flying you will get outmaneuvered by aces, and being in formation is great for people dropping bombs on you. And also the damage output of the list (whilst still perfectly reasonable) isn't exactly stellar.

Good list? Yes. Problem for the metagame? No.

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11 hours ago, Stoneface said:

This is where I have to disagree with you. In your example it's obvious that jousting is a bad idea.

Your play style has to change depending on the squad you're facing. Use boosts and/or barrel rolls to control range. While he can be within R1 of his squad mates he can be just outside R3 of your guns. Patience and positioning are very important. I've lost too many games by being impatient and trying to force the encounter.

Biggs is a royal pain in the **** to deal with. No argument there. He's not unbeatable or unreasonable, just a PITA. Wednesday I lost a FSR 2 squad to Double Edge, Backdraft and I think Omega Leader. I would have been 0-2 if my opponent hadn't mis-judged my move and ended up tokenless at R1 in front of 3 of my ships with Backdraft in the second game. 

You see the impatience in some new chess players. They want to unleash hate and discontent as soon as possible. They lose and usually pretty quick.

 

 

 

 

I agree that biggs is very killable, it's just that sometime when you throw 12 dice at him after a perfect setup and he laughs it off with no damage it is really disheartening.   

 

I think they should just say, that biggs ability works all the time, but you always suffer a minimum of 1 damage when being shot at . Lets face it Biggs is literally flying in the way of the attack.   So he should take something no matter what he rolls.    This way it's still hard to kill him ,but makes it possible and hey if 3 ships throw 12 dice  he will at very least take 3 damage.     

This makes him still hard to play against, but also makes him a little easier to stomach.

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15 hours ago, Stoneface said:

A reasonable voice is heard thru the din!

Reading some of these posts about Biggs being "un-killable" you'd swear he was rolling 8 greens!

 

 

Not that 8 greens wouldn't completely blank out.

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3 hours ago, eagletsi111 said:

I agree that biggs is very killable, it's just that sometime when you throw 12 dice at him after a perfect setup and he laughs it off with no damage it is really disheartening.   

 

I think they should just say, that biggs ability works all the time, but you always suffer a minimum of 1 damage when being shot at . Lets face it Biggs is literally flying in the way of the attack.   So he should take something no matter what he rolls.    This way it's still hard to kill him ,but makes it possible and hey if 3 ships throw 12 dice  he will at very least take 3 damage.     

This makes him still hard to play against, but also makes him a little easier to stomach.

With 12 dice someone is taking damage. R4-D6 gives him stress, Selflessness is a one-shot card and DTF is good for a crit a turn. R4 is the only thing that saves him from catastrophic, one attack damage like a Cruise Missile attack that he blanks on and even then he'll take two damage and three stress. Or someone in his squad is eating 5 hits. I really think that the hatred for Biggs is overblown. 

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