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Palp and frame's die interaction

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ship with frames roll 2 dice defending. 

After, it roll 3rd die from frames. And use Palp before this last roll. 

By Palp — must I change 3rd die, or

any of 3 dice in whole rolling?

 

 

 

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34 minutes ago, arkhamssaber said:

 Expanding the answer. 

You didn't say you were going to use palp on the first two dice. So why would you be able too?

timing on LWF says it's a separate roll.

"When defending, After rolling defense dice, if there are more attack dice than defense dice roll 1 additional die"

there's two parts at play here. By my reading of that RAW If you declared palp at the start of the defense rolling he doesn't  work on the lwf roll, however you can declare and use him for the extra to ensure the evade.

 

Edit: beyond this particular interaction i see no reason why LWF needed to be worded this way and not just add a green die with the defense roll..........

Edited by Ralgon

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44 minutes ago, Ralgon said:

Edit: beyond this particular interaction i see no reason why LWF needed to be worded this way and not just add a green die with the defense roll..........

It's worded the way it is so that it won't always stack with the extra dice you gain from obstructions and R3.  For instance, if you're a 2 AGI ship and you get shot at with a 4 dice primary at R3, you're already rolling 4 defence dice.  So you don't get LWF.  But if you were being shot at with a HLC; you wouldn't get the range bonus and LWF would kick in.

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1 hour ago, kraedin said:

Any die. Palp changes "one of your dice results". You don't have two separate pools of dice results after LWF, you have a single set of dice results from two rolls. For example, spending a focus token affects results of the original roll and and LWF roll.

This is correct, palp can change any die in the dice pool not just the ones you immediately rolled.

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19 hours ago, Oberron said:

This is correct, palp can change any die in the dice pool not just the ones you immediately rolled.

Didn't realize this part! But it makes sense, nobody questions that you can use a focus token to change both the original rolls and the LWF extra.

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On 8/27/2017 at 10:53 AM, wfain said:

Didn't realize this part! But it makes sense, nobody questions that you can use a focus token to change both the original rolls and the LWF extra.


Using a focus token is actually in a separate step (step 5) after the rolling dice step (step 4). Since LWF happens between steps 4 and 5 ("After rolling"), spending a focus or target lock would always affect all dice.

Initially I would have argued that Palp could only change the third die, since you didn't declare him before Step 4 started. But Palp doesn't say "before a friendly ship rolls any dice" but just "before a friendly ship rolls dice". That seems to mean that Palp has a potential trigger anytime a ship rolls any die.

As an aside, LWF and PAL have the same "After rolling" trigger for their effects, so you could resolve them in any order, though I can't think of a reason why you would want to resolve Palp before LWF.

 

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FFG ruled at Worlds you can change any die. However, FFG then ruled at NA Champs that you can only change the dice/die specifically stated before the roll. For instance, if you declare it before the first two, can only change it after those, if you declare it before the LWF die, you can only change that die. FFG has made this so much more complicated than it needed to be. 

Edited by Tbetts94

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Palp, RAW, says "[After you do this thing] you must change 1 of your dice results to the named result. That die result cannot be modified again." Are you legally allowed to do that thing? (Namely, are you doing that thing before rolling dice?) Then you are required to change "one of your dice results." There is nothing in the rules to suggest that the dice result changed can't be any of your currently active dice results.

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