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Drasnighta

The Raddus Bomb

122 posts in this topic

So.  Is it possible to deploy 0 Ships and not lose the game?

It looks like it, potentially, at least......

 

All of the rules seem to specify that you would lose the game if ships have been destroyed - however, in this occasion, using Raddus, Profundity and Hyperspace Assault, nothing is destroyed - it simply hasn't been deployed yet?

 

Following?

 

Good.

 

From Hyperspace Assault FAQ:

"If all of a player’s ships in the play

area are destroyed, his ships and
squadrons that are set aside are also
destroyed. If the game goes to time, or
the end of the sixth round, his ships
and squadrons that are set aside are
destroyed."


From RRG:

• If all ships in a fleet are destroyed, ignoring squadrons,
the game immediately ends. The player with one or
more ships remaining in the play area is the winner.

 

 

 

 

 It looks like you might be able to... In fact, for maximum crazy-age, it would have to basically be:

A Small or Medium Ship for Raddus to sit on and go into Hyperspace.
The Profundity for Raddus to hide behind his back.
A Small shi pwith Command 1 inside the Profundity
Any more than 3 Squadrons must be hidden in Rapid Launch Bays

Procedure:

Before deploying fleets, ALL of those Trigger with Hyperspace Assault:

First, Hide any excess Squadrons in Rapid Launch Bays.
Hide the Small Ship in Profundity.
Hide Profundity with Raddus
Hide Raddus' Ride, along with up to 3 Squadrons, with Hyperspace Assault.

Deploy Nothing.

Move Hyperspace Tokens when Able.

At the start of any round other than the first:

Deploy Raddus' Ride and Squadrons as per Hyperspace Assault Rules.
Deploy the Profundity
Deploy the Small Ship

When they activate, use Squadron commands where appropriate to deploy any RLB squadrons.

There you go.

The Raddus Bomb.

 

 

Any Questions?

Muelmuel, Geodes, Norell and 9 others like this

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Posted (edited)

If you did not deploy anything from the Raddus bomb before the end of the sixth round, your entire fleet would be destroyed and your opponent would win-- per the hyperspace assault FAQ.

Edit:

OH I see what you are saying. Yeah might need an FAQ I guess.

Edit 2:

Though the rest of the Raddus bomb is tied to the first ship in hyperspace.

So if you never deployed that you'd still lose on points at the end of 6.

It's a troll move for sure though.

Edited by Warlord Zepnick

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This has popped up a few times. Do you think they will errata this away? I mean it seems a bit silly, but if both HA and Raddus are designed for surprise attacks, why couldn't it be a whole fleet?

I measured out the distances today and it looks like you will be able to start turn two with a capital ship pointed down the flank of the whole enemy fleet with  CR90 + ET. you could then Profundity a small base deep into their start region. If it had RLB, you can almost place a squadron off the mat at the start of turn two.

It all makes for a very aggressive opening hand.

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2 minutes ago, Warlord Zepnick said:

If you did not deploy anything from the Raddus bomb before the end of the sixth round, your entire fleet would be destroyed and your opponent would win-- per the hyperspace assault FAQ.

Yes, but you would be able to place your whole fleet where you want by the second or third opener. Even if you decided to play them all at the start of the first round, you can chain them into the opponents start region, making life **** for them *at the very beginning*.

 

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1 minute ago, Geodes said:

Yes, but you would be able to place your whole fleet where you want by the second or third opener. Even if you decided to play them all at the start of the first round, you can chain them into the opponents start region, making life **** for them *at the very beginning*.

 

Oh okay, yeah now I get what @Drasnighta was talking about.

You could totally obliterate an opponent without deploying a single ship. No doubt in my mind.

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2 minutes ago, PT106 said:

Well.. I think it depends on the answer to the following question:

If there are 0 ships in the play area, is it true that all player's ships present in the play area are destroyed?

 

Can you declare a ship destroyed without a rule that says a ship has been destroyed?

 

I mean, even flying off the board declares it destroyed - and its declared destroyed in turn 6 if not deployed, so all other bases are covered....

 

But it relies at the moment on that specific ambiguity...  Although its tough to definitively say something has been destroyed when nothing has been destroyed.

 

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I'm fairly certain you'd lose the game by the end of round 1.

At the end of a game round, all of one player’s ships are destroyed. The player with at least one ship remaining earns a win and the opposing player receives a loss.

From the tournament document. The game state may not fulfill the first clause, but is fulfills the second. Pretty sure any TO would rule it as a 10-1 to first player.

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Posted (edited)

You'd be wrong, since, y'know, I'm a TO for one - ergo, 'any' wouldn't apply ;)

 

 

I'd certainly be arguing that you'd need to account for the First Clause before moving onto the Second Clause.

Nothing has been destroyed.

The rule has not been triggered to even look at the second part.

 

 

None of my ships have been destroyed - and the Hyperspace destruction would only trigger if my NON Hyperspace Ships have been destroyed, too.  But that hasn't happened.

 

 

Edited by Drasnighta
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1 minute ago, Drasnighta said:

Can you declare a ship destroyed without a rule that says a ship has been destroyed?

 

I mean, even flying off the board declares it destroyed - and its declared destroyed in turn 6 if not deployed, so all other bases are covered....

 

But it relies at the moment on that specific ambiguity...  Although its tough to definitively say something has been destroyed when nothing has been destroyed.

 

Destroyed is defined in the RRG. You take damage equal to your hull or you fly off the table. No way someone can argue they destroyed your fleet when you don't even have it on the table.

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Posted (edited)

1 minute ago, Undeadguy said:

Destroyed is defined in the RRG. You take damage equal to your hull or you fly off the table. No way someone can argue they destroyed your fleet when you don't even have it on the table.

Yep.  Ergo, you havn't Destroyed my Ships, the whole line dealing with one players ships being destroyed isn't registered at all.

 

You can even add to that the Hyperspace Caveat - If you'r ein Hyperspace and your other ships are destroyed, this one is destroyed...

 

...  and now we have 3 Definitions for "Destroyed", and none of them count.

Edited by Drasnighta
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5 minutes ago, Drasnighta said:

You'd be wrong, since, y'know, I'm a TO for one - ergo, 'any' wouldn't apply ;)

 

 

I'd certainly be arguing that you'd need to account for the First Clause before moving onto the Second Clause.

Nothing has been destroyed.

The rule has not been triggered to even look at the second part.

 

 

None of my ships have been destroyed - and the Hyperspace destruction would only trigger if my NON Hyperspace Ships have been destroyed, too.  But that hasn't happened.

 

 

Fine, ding me on an ego technicality but I'm pretty sure you'd never do that unless you'd want to play with your can of worms and a pissed off player.

I disagree that the tournament rules are linear. 

 

Honestly, you can do this gimmick right now. You don't need Raddus. You take a CR90 and HSA. Bid 300 points and deploy at the start of round 6. So what's the difference?

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Posted (edited)

2 minutes ago, Undeadguy said:

Fine, ding me on an ego technicality but I'm pretty sure you'd never do that unless you'd want to play with your can of worms and a pissed off player.

I disagree that the tournament rules are linear. 

 

Honestly, you can do this gimmick right now. You don't need Raddus. You take a CR90 and HSA. Bid 300 points and deploy at the start of round 6. So what's the difference?

The difference is you're still building a 3 Ship, Multiple squadron fleet that may actually be able to fight and Win its way through a battle, with more than a 6-5 victory, since it has teeth and punch.

 

To have a Fleet be a Legitimate fleet, that deploys - Hyperspaces in - behind the enemy.  And be effectively a 400pt Fleet.  Not to delay until the end of the game, but push Hyperspace as a true advantage.

Edited by Drasnighta
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1 minute ago, Drasnighta said:

This'll be out before Legion, sorry mate.

I'm afraid so. Mechanics for wave 7 don't do it for me. Game finally feels like it is on the X-Wing flight path. 

I suppose you'll get your answer in 9 months.

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1 minute ago, Milienius said:

This is why I want to burn the servers this forum is hosted on. You guys are ridiculous. ******* stupid. 

Why though?

I mean, why is it any more or less allowed than, say, the Avenger BT interaction, allowing you to effectively delete and enemy ship of your choice because you're a Speed 3 ISD that goes where it wants?

 

 

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23 minutes ago, Drasnighta said:

Can you declare a ship destroyed without a rule that says a ship has been destroyed?

 

I mean, even flying off the board declares it destroyed - and its declared destroyed in turn 6 if not deployed, so all other bases are covered....

 

But it relies at the moment on that specific ambiguity...  Although its tough to definitively say something has been destroyed when nothing has been destroyed.

 

No, no, no. No ships re declared as destroyed. My point is this - if there are no player 1 ships in the play area, then the statement "all player 1 ships that are present in the play area are destroyed" is true even if no ships are destroyed.

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Oh wait, he is @Ardaedhel's favorite argument.

Well, since FFG didn't consider the future waves of content when they wrote the RRG, of course this is legal. FFG really should have future proofed the rules to prevent this from happening. I see nothing that says I lose if I have no un-destroyed ships off the table, therefore it works.

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2 minutes ago, Drasnighta said:

Why though?

I mean, why is it any more or less allowed than, say, the Avenger BT interaction, allowing you to effectively delete and enemy ship of your choice because you're a Speed 3 ISD that goes where it wants?

 

 

I am not dignifying you or this stupid thread with another comment from me after this. Also that is a false equivalency out the ***

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Just now, PT106 said:

No, no, no. No ships re declared as destroyed. My point is this - if there are no player 1 ships in the play area, then the statement "all player 1 ships that are present in the play area are destroyed" is true even if no ships are destroyed.

Is it a Logic "TRUE", or is it a Divide-by-Zero Error ?

...  I mean, I brought it up, and I have a playtester who-shall-not-be-named telling me that this was something thought of and 'approved'.

 

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1 minute ago, Drasnighta said:

Is it a Logic "TRUE", or is it a Divide-by-Zero Error ?

...  I mean, I brought it up, and I have a playtester who-shall-not-be-named telling me that this was something thought of and 'approved'.

 

I mean, if FFG really wants to break the game because someone is playing the game as a "well the rules say I can't" BS then they can do whatever they want.

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3 minutes ago, Milienius said:

I am not dignifying you or this stupid thread with another comment from me after this. Also that is a false equivalency out the ***

Clown like. Bye!

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