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AllWingsStandyingBy

Is it just me, or are Raddus and the Profundity really bad?

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4 minutes ago, Snipafist said:

I'm pretty confident because it instructs you to equip them to the launched ship if able, one of the things you need to be able to equip an upgrade is an available upgrade slot.

This is my thought too. 

No Raymus, Ahsoka, Tantive tricks.

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1 hour ago, Undeadguy said:

This is my thought too. 

No Raymus, Ahsoka, Tantive tricks.

Right, i view it more as a "get outta dodge" thing.  The trick i can see with Raddus and the Profundity is the previously mentioned Rebel Nesting Dolls trick (h/t @Snipafist for the name) where Profundity throws out your CR90/flotilla, and then THAT throws out your OTHER large base from Raddus.

 

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46 minutes ago, geek19 said:

Right, i view it more as a "get outta dodge" thing.  The trick i can see with Raddus and the Profundity is the previously mentioned Rebel Nesting Dolls trick (h/t @Snipafist for the name) where Profundity throws out your CR90/flotilla, and then THAT throws out your OTHER large base from Raddus.

Not sure if it's worth losing deployment over. 2 ships are removed so you better have some way to supplement that. 

Also, you have to make sure Raddus and Profunidty are on the table at the same time otherwise it won't work. Upgrades can't trigger if they aren't in play.

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20 minutes ago, Undeadguy said:

Also, you have to make sure Raddus and Profunidty are on the table at the same time otherwise it won't work. Upgrades can't trigger if they aren't in play.

Effects with the same timing window can trigger in an order of your choosing. So you could use Profundity first to drop a small ship and then use Raddus to deploy your surprise ship from the small ship.

Mind you, I don't actually think Rebel Nesting Dolls is going to be a big thing at this point. It just amuses me is all. I rate Raddus higher than Profundity at this point.

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13 minutes ago, Snipafist said:

Effects with the same timing window can trigger in an order of your choosing. So you could use Profundity first to drop a small ship and then use Raddus to deploy your surprise ship from the small ship.

Mind you, I don't actually think Rebel Nesting Dolls is going to be a big thing at this point. It just amuses me is all. I rate Raddus higher than Profundity at this point.

I don't know how GOOD it'll be, but it'll definitely be FUN, that's for sure.  I DO also think that Hyperspace Assault isn't necessarily the best Objective there, as what reason does your opponent have for coming to kill you? Other than taking the 5-6 loss, of course.  Gotta see what the MC75 actually DOES, first, i think.

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On 8/25/2017 at 6:22 PM, Amraam01 said:

Very gut reaction without understanding anything.  Armada is all about the nuances.  Just wait till you see it in action.... 


I mean, you're condescending reaction is great, but I'm a multi-time Store Champion and regional champion.  So it's not like I don't understand Armada; in fact I think I generally have a decent grasp on the game.  I can see the value in Raddus, though pretty exclusive as a way to "hide" your biggest ship during deployment.  By his very nature, though, he'll probably make getting 9-10s difficult, which means he likely won't be a top spot Admiral (he seems like the kinda Admiral that'll just end up forcing a lot of your opponents to play for the 6-5).   The Profundity though still just seems like a colossal waste of points, deployments, and activation, and I haven't seen anyone defending it, really.

Edited by AllWingsStandyingBy

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The entire thing is a gimmick.  It's just finding a use for the gimmick.  Are there downsides? absolutely.  26 point commander with 1 trick.  7 point title with 1 trick.  The potential loss of activations.  The loss of deployments.

But if you can use it to secure objective points, it could be worth a lot.  Or if you can use it to surprise attack specific units to entirely disrupt the enemy plan.

Raddus on the Profundity getting close in on an ISD and dropping both an MC30 and a hammerhead with ERs in such a way that they can both double arc the rear of the ISD.  Profundity with Raddus tossing down a hammerhead, transferring Raddus to that, and then Raddus dropping an MC80 pickle between two high value targets, or an MC80 wedge in range of something like a quasar suddenly shutting down their entire fleet game.  Chain dropping that MC80 wedge in front of an MC80 pickle in order to block his movement while putting your best arcs in his weakest.  Chain drop that hammerhead behind the larger ships to threaten those pesky flotillas.  Drop an anti-fighter ship next to a swarm.  Combine with rapid launch bays to pack some extra punch with that small ship.

Just the threat of such scenarios is going to change the play of your opponent.  How likely are they to bring that big ole ISD in for a heavy slugging fight if they know you could end up dropping enough firepower to take it out with a surprise move?  It's kind of the ultimate mind game for Armada.  When and where are you going to drop those forces.  Can I bait that somehow and take advantage of it?  Or will I overextend myself?

Is it good? It's hard to tell.  I don't think it's a tournament winner, although I see it really disrupting some tournament plans and doing decent in the right hands, after all, a lot of lists rest on some pretty specific details, and if you can disrupt those plans, the lists start falling apart.  It seems like a high risk/high reward   But who knows.  4-5 activations were seen as necessary not long ago, but the recent winning lists had far less.  But the game is more than tournaments.  With campaigns, different strategies and tactics take root.  And don't forget that a lot of people play games for fun too...and well, this has the potential for a lot of fun.

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1 hour ago, kmanweiss said:

  It seems like a high risk/high reward

I would certainly echo this sentiment and that a fleet under the command of Raddus, in the right hands, would prove considerably difficult to play against. In the same vein as pre-nerf Rieekan, Raddus forces the opponent to play the game differently due to the threat of his ability. I believe that his ability is more sigificant than most anticipate.

 

I can imagine this ability being particularly nasty in 2nd player lists that aim to generate points through objective tokens. 

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9 hours ago, xerpo said:

And this exactly why Raddus has the restriction he has. If he wouldnt have these restrictions it would be able to do properly what you are saying. FFG didn't want this to happen, so the deployment has to be at distance 1 of a ship you already have in table (so the opponent will know where is going to be pretty accurately) and you cant activate it first so your oponent will always be able to react to this not-so-surprising deployment.

Yes,  hyperspace assault objective sucks.:P

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2 hours ago, ovinomanc3r said:

Yes,  hyperspace assault objective sucks.:P

 

There's an idea, a 3 ship list with Raddus, Profundity some RLB'd B-Wings or whatever and the Hyperspace Assault Objective.

Start with no ships of any kind on the board. Go have a cup of tea whilst your opponent is doing his deployment.

 

NOTE: REMEMBER THAT RADDUS HAS TO BE IN THE HYPERSPACING SHIP FOR THIS TO WORK.

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17 minutes ago, Mward1984 said:

 

There's an idea, a 3 ship list with Raddus, Profundity some RLB'd B-Wings or whatever and the Hyperspace Assault Objective.

Start with no ships of any kind on the board. Go have a cup of tea whilst your opponent is playing.

 

NOTE: REMEMBER THAT RADDUS HAS TO BE IN THE HYPERSPACING SHIP FOR THIS TO WORK.

Fixed :P

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9 hours ago, Snipafist said:

Effects with the same timing window can trigger in an order of your choosing. So you could use Profundity first to drop a small ship and then use Raddus to deploy your surprise ship from the small ship.

Mind you, I don't actually think Rebel Nesting Dolls is going to be a big thing at this point. It just amuses me is all. I rate Raddus higher than Profundity at this point.

That's not what I'm saying. 

If Raddus and Profundity are on the same ship, your idea works. You can daisy chain your deployments.

But if Raddus brings in the Profundity, Profundity has missed its timing window to trigger because it was never on the board.

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3 minutes ago, Undeadguy said:

That's not what I'm saying. 

If Raddus and Profundity are on the same ship, your idea works. You can daisy chain your deployments.

But if Raddus brings in the Profundity, Profundity has missed its timing window to trigger because it was never on the board.

That's probably going to need a clarifying FAQ. I'm pretty sure you can choose the order cards with effects in the same timing step go off in if they all belong to you.

****, it's the cornerstone of how the old Falcon (TFA) Title + Kanan Jarrus (crew) combo works over in X-Wing.

So it's my feeling that at that "Start of the Turn" step, you could Raddus in Profundity, then have Profundity go off.  ****, you could even Hyperspace in Raddus first before all of this.

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4 minutes ago, Mward1984 said:

That's probably going to need a clarifying FAQ. I'm pretty sure you can choose the order cards with effects in the same timing step go off in if they all belong to you.

****, it's the cornerstone of how the old Falcon (TFA) Title + Kanan Jarrus (crew) combo works over in X-Wing.

So it's my feeling that at that "Start of the Turn" step, you could Raddus in Profundity, then have Profundity go off.  ****, you could even Hyperspace in Raddus first before all of this.

No you can't. If the ship is not on the table, the upgrades do not have an effect.

 

If you Hyper Space Assault in Profundity, Profundity has missed it's activation window. It does not get to drop a ship.

 

Edit: From the FAQ: Ships and squadrons set aside are not in play. Their abilities and upgrades are inactive and they cannot be affected by any abilities.

Edited by Undeadguy

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I think it would work but I'd like to hear from @Drasnighta for his take.

Basically it's the start of a round, Raddus is on the board and drops in Profundity. It's still the start of the round and Profundity, which is now on the table, chooses to launch its baby ship. It's not a triggered effect so much as a "this is your window for pushing the button" effect, and the window for Raddus is the same window for Profundity.

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8 minutes ago, Undeadguy said:

No you can't. If the ship is not on the table, the upgrades do not have an effect.

 

If you Hyper Space Assault in Profundity, Profundity has missed it's activation window. It does not get to drop a ship.

 

Edit: From the FAQ: Ships and squadrons set aside are not in play. Their abilities and upgrades are inactive and they cannot be affected by any abilities.

 

Yes... but deploying the ship using Raddus, Hyperspace Assault or Profundity DOESN'T MEAN IT ISN'T STILL THE START OF THE TURN.

If the timing for Profundity and Raddus was "At the END of a Turn" THEN it would work like you are saying.

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6 minutes ago, Snipafist said:

I think it would work but I'd like to hear from @Drasnighta for his take.

Basically it's the start of a round, Raddus is on the board and drops in Profundity. It's still the start of the round and Profundity, which is now on the table, chooses to launch its baby ship. It's not a triggered effect so much as a "this is your window for pushing the button" effect, and the window for Raddus is the same window for Profundity.

Dras and I already discussed this.

 

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Just now, Drasnighta said:

You really wouldn't.

If you now think the timing window is open for all ships to drop in, I'd like to see the new evidence. I knew there was a stick point when we first discussed it. Just took a while for my drunken mind to figure it out.

If there is something that disproves my point, then I guess Raddus got way better which makes me happy.

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Just now, Undeadguy said:

If you now think the timing window is open for all ships to drop in, I'd like to see the new evidence. I knew there was a stick point when we first discussed it. Just took a while for my drunken mind to figure it out.

If there is something that disproves my point, then I guess Raddus got way better which makes me happy.

What makes you think that? 

i was just saying that @Snipafistwouldn't want to hear my take.

 

now it just sounds like you are goading or gloating.

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6 minutes ago, Drasnighta said:

What makes you think that? 

i was just saying that @Snipafistwouldn't want to hear my take.

 

now it just sounds like you are goading or gloating.

I mean if you think I'm wrong, I'd be interested in hearing why. At this point it's largely academic but if my understanding of the rules in this matter is incorrect, I'd prefer to be corrected.

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