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AllWingsStandyingBy

Is it just me, or are Raddus and the Profundity really bad?

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Profundity can also be used well with Rieekan to set up a double-arcing CR90B or an External Racks Hammerhead in the escape path of your target where it not only will get to attack but will also keep them pinned in due to overlapping and they're stuck dealing with your small ship and your MC75.

Corner-case, potentially, but I could see it being useful that way.

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On 10/31/2017 at 9:07 AM, Ginkapo said:

I think people misunderstand Profundity. Its main use is not the Raddus Russian Dolls. 

Profundity lets you run a beefed up monster battleship with a highly prized admiral, Sato/Ackbar, and when the enemy go all in on killing your flag, a ET cr90 appears from hyperspace to ferry Ackbar/Sato to safety. 

But who cares if your Ackbar is safe if your beefed-up monster battleship is dead?  Was it really worth spending like 40-50 points and losing an activation to keep your Ackbar on board after your best ship is dead or dying? (at this point the game is probably already a loss).

That's the point @jocke01 was making above, and it's the same reason I'm not a fan of the Profundity title: keeping a CR90, Hammerhead, or GR-75 out of harm's way is silly, since the enemy doesn't have infinite fire power in Armada.  Any shots they would have been putting into that small ship are shots that wouldn't have been going into your Profundity (or some other ship).  So better to just have that small ship on the board for the activation and so it can contribute, and if they enemy does obliterate it, well that's fine because the effort the enemy puts into killing that small ship was not directed at one of your more valuable ships.  If I could choose to have the enemy shooting my expensive battleship or my cheap small-ship, I'd have them shoot the small ship all the time.  But the Profundity does the opposite -- it keeps a small ship tucked away and leaves your big beefy Profundity more alone on the battlefield.

There is one and only one use for the Profundity title, and I'm not convinced it's all that worthwhile: Having Raddus on Random Ship A, then using his ability to bring in the Profundity somewhere surprising and also 'teleporting in' whatever small ship is in it's hold, basically letting Raddus teleport in two ships (and in this usage the small ship is going to be immediately in the game once the  Profundity enters, it's not going to hang in that docking bay a second longer than it needs to).  While this may be a decent use of the title, it's also the only use I can think of, and it's certainly kind of unthematic (since Raddus explicitly cannot be aboard his own ship for any of this to work).

 

Edited by AllWingsStandyingBy

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9 minutes ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

But who cares if your Ackbar is safe if your beefed-up monster battleship is dead?  Was it really worth spending like 40-50 points and losing an activation to keep your Ackbar on board after your best ship is dead or dying? (at this point the game is probably already a loss).

That's the point @jocke01 was making above, and it's the same reason I'm not a fan of the Profundity title: keeping a CR90, Hammerhead, or GR-75 out of harm's way is silly, since the enemy doesn't have infinite fire power in Armada.  Any shots they would have been putting into that small ship are shots that wouldn't have been going into your Profundity (or some other ship).  So better to just have that small ship on the board for the activation and so it can contribute, and if they enemy does obliterate it, well that's fine because the effort the enemy puts into killing that small ship was not directed at one of your more valuable ships.  If I could choose to have the enemy shooting my expensive battleship or my cheap small-ship, I'd have them shoot the small ship all the time.  But the Profundity does the opposite -- it keeps a small ship tucked away and leaves your big beefy Profundity more alone on the battlefield.

There is one and only one use for the Profundity title, and I'm not convinced it's all that worthwhile: Having Raddus on Random Ship A, then using his ability to bring in the Profundity somewhere surprising and also 'teleporting in' whatever small ship is in it's hold, basically letting Raddus teleport in two ships (and in this usage the small ship is going to be immediately in the game once the  Profundity enters, it's not going to hang in that docking bay a second longer than it needs to).  While this may be a decent use of the title, it's also the only use I can think of, and it's certainly kind of unthematic (since Raddus explicitly cannot be aboard his own ship for any of this to work).

 

You don't see any use for Russian nesting dolls dropping an LMC80 in about distance 4 away from your Profundity? Wellllllll alllllright.

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5 minutes ago, geek19 said:

You don't see any use for Russian nesting dolls dropping an LMC80 in about distance 4 away from your Profundity? Wellllllll alllllright.


What does dropping an MC80 Liberty on the board have to do with the Profundity title?  That sounds like something Raddus can do, and has nothing to do with the Profundity title (which requires a Small Ship, Command 1).  We're talking about the usefulness of Profundity title, not Raddus... so I guess I don't see your point?

Edited by AllWingsStandyingBy

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23 minutes ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

 @jocke01
There is one and only one use for the Profundity title, and I'm not convinced it's all that worthwhile: Having Raddus on Random Ship A, then using his ability to bring in the Profundity somewhere surprising and also 'teleporting in' whatever small ship is in it's hold, basically letting Raddus teleport in two ships (and in this usage the small ship is going to be immediately in the game once the  Profundity enters, it's not going to hang in that docking bay a second longer than it needs to).  While this may be a decent use of the title, it's also the only use I can think of, and it's certainly kind of unthematic (since Raddus explicitly cannot be aboard his own ship for any of this to work).

Quoting you directly, you say the ONLY use of the title is with Raddus bringing in the Profundity and this extra ship. In my example, Profundity lets you drop the small in when you want to, then use Raddus to drop in the second ship (about distance 4 away when you factor in the distance 1 from each). You're not spiriting away Raddus with the title so much as getting to drop a Gunnery Team LMC80 in their backfield.

I don't see much current use out of the title in a non-Raddus list, but it can work in more than just the one way you describe I feel.

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Just sitting here waiting for Profundity to make Sato bruiser fleets a thing... Mc75 is a tank by rebel standards and with Black/blue  front  blue/red side arcs, basically begs to be in the mix. Sato MC75 with a Torp HH tucked in it's belly is a thing of beauty.

69 points to be able to drop a HH with OEs RLBs External racks and Garel's honor with a perfect double arc at close range. 
Have Tycho sitting in that bay, squad command him at range 1 and attack
Then boom 6 black with rerolls and a manditory faceup upon movement. 

When rolled on the dice app:

Tycho: 1hit (1 dam)

front: 1hit, hit/crit, blank (3 dam w/crit)
Side: 1hit, 1hit, hit/crit (4 dam w/crit)

Overlap at speed 1: 1 face up


As stoked as I am as an Imperial main for wave VII, the rebels have my attention.





 

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5 hours ago, Undeadguy said:

I'm excited to see Raddus and Profundity...can't wait for my opponent to handicap themselves by leaving 200+ points off the table.

I think that youll see it like this in the begining, but it will bring a whole other dimention of threat to the game. I think that what they bring to the table will take the more unorthodox players a whole new level.

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I think profundity and raddus will be good for the corellian campaign.  I also think it could be used strategically in deployment. Your opponent is setting all of their ships out while you have 2 ships set aside that you can deploy at any time.  It might be able to throw them off??

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I can at the very least say that some preliminary games against Raddus by some of my Imperial buddies in a CC campaign have instilled the fear of God into them and learning to play against him is going to take some experience. People who think they're getting deployment/activation advantage against Raddus are half-right, but the half-wrong side of them is going to get a serious kick in the pants when that large ship shows up more or less exactly where Raddus wants it and you can't meaningfully deploy to avoid it.

Profundity the jury's still out on, though. It has some tricksiness potential, but we'll see if that proves itself over time or if it's just some fun jankiness.

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Raddus is very good. He upends the traditional deployment paradigm. You simply cannot out deploy him. He's going to put a large ship somewhere that's going to hurt. Yes, he has a minor limitation on the first turn, but you'll still have a lot of the same positioning advantage in subsequent turns which are not restricted from going first. Liberty is easily my favorite ship to use with him. Still, he's a one trick pony. You can manuever and pressure the support ships to shape where the Raddus ship comes out to a degree. Other commanders, such as Madine and Jerry are good at reacting to him.

Profundity is rather meh. The best use I've come up with is just a kamikaze Hammerhead with External Racks. Yes, you can Hyperspace Assault, then Raddus, and then Profundity, but it's not as good as some of you seem to think. I'd much rather use a Liberty with Raddus and use the MC75 with Ackbar.

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1 hour ago, Truthiness said:

Raddus is very good. He upends the traditional deployment paradigm. You simply cannot out deploy him. He's going to put a large ship somewhere that's going to hurt. Yes, he has a minor limitation on the first turn, but you'll still have a lot of the same positioning advantage in subsequent turns which are not restricted from going first. Liberty is easily my favorite ship to use with him. Still, he's a one trick pony. You can manuever and pressure the support ships to shape where the Raddus ship comes out to a degree. Other commanders, such as Madine and Jerry are good at reacting to him.

Profundity is rather meh. The best use I've come up with is just a kamikaze Hammerhead with External Racks. Yes, you can Hyperspace Assault, then Raddus, and then Profundity, but it's not as good as some of you seem to think. I'd much rather use a Liberty with Raddus and use the MC75 with Ackbar.

I think that tripling down won’t actually be that good, just entertaining. I’m finding that I feel Raddus is at his best with at least three ships still on the table at game start. Even then, three ships a bit spread out. Whenever I run less or pack them in close, his text doesn’t feel nearly as potent. 

 

I believe Raddus is good even without the MC75. I’m not decided on Profundity

 

MC75 feels like a jack of all trades compared to the Liberty and Home One. It looks like it will work less ruthlessly efficiently with commanders than other Large MCxx, but will work okay with more. Of course, a lot is unknown, so I could be full of it

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On 11/1/2017 at 1:57 PM, Undeadguy said:

I'm excited to see Raddus and Profundity...can't wait for my opponent to handicap themselves by leaving 200+ points off the table.

This is my base thought. if you're taking two capital ships you're already going to be a  bit of a rough spot. now you're talking about taking a corvette with it. assuming the profundity is "around" 100 points you're looking at 250 in base points for the lib, corv, pro, 3/5's of which aren't on the table to start and not including the commander/upgrades. i could see someone losing their pro in 1 turn w/out dropping their corv and lib as a result allowing a person to table them by killing a mc80 home. It just seems like a lot of "eggs in 1 basket" which is what turned me off of mc80 rapid launch bay ships too. Yes they're durable, but that durability can evaporate far faster than I'm comfortable with banking on. 

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Yea I think Raddus will be very fun. Average cost for a commander with a very good effect. Losing a deployment is inconsequential when you can deploy it later in the perfect position. I think Truthiness is correct with the Liberty and Raddus. You're essentially dropping an ISD where ever you want because the base is so freaking huge. FFG is really adding some love to that ship.

I think Profundity is awful. 7 points to lose a deployment with a ship that will have little impact on the game. I think Snipafist has the only real concept with it by dropping an ER HH with Rieekan as you commander. Really cool idea for a spike in damage. I could also see someone dropping a flotilla as a blocker in front of a large ship. Spit out that GR-75 in front of an ISD so it can't run away unless it attacks the flotilla. 

But I don't think people will run both Raddus and Profundity because you end up losing 2 deployments, which can be a huge difference in some games, but you also lose 2 activations. I still think you cannot do the Russian doll trick, and use Profundity to drop Raddus to drop another ship in 1 round, so you end up staggering your reinforcements 1 per round, and you're fighting at a huge disadvantage because you are down activations when you really want to be equal and fighting. If FFG allows the Russian doll trick, I could see Raddus and Profundity hitting the table often because being able to deploy 2 ships later in the game is a huge benefit.

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4 hours ago, Truthiness said:

The timing for Raddus and Profundity is the same, so RAW you can do the Russian doll. It's still not really worthwhile.

Of course, the Rules Discussion of the "Raddus Bomb" ( :D ) is more complicated - The hitch-question to that being that the Profundity upgrade is not on the board and doesn't exist until you resolve the Raddus effect.  Once the Raddus effect has resolved, are you still in that timing window, or did that window close so you can resolve it?

 

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The "start of the round" isn't cleanly defined in the RRG. The best logical conclusion I can come up with is that it takes place prior to the command phase. Therefore until you're ready to mess with dials, it's still the "start of the round." And because a player can resolve simultaneous effects in whatever order they wish, you can Raddus and Profundity.

Again, it's not very good and we really shouldn't waste much time on this issue.

Edited by Truthiness

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12 minutes ago, Truthiness said:

The "start of the round" isn't cleanly defined in the RRG. The best logical conclusion I can come up with is that it takes place prior to the command phase. Therefore until you're ready to mess with dials, it's still the "start of the round." And because a player can resolve simultaneous effects in whatever order they wish, you can Raddus and Profundity.

Again, it's not very good and we really shouldn't waste much time on this issue.

Eh, we'll just continue to waste the time in the Rules Discussion, rather than here :D 

You know how we are :D 

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