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AllWingsStandyingBy

Is it just me, or are Raddus and the Profundity really bad?

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On 9/6/2017 at 10:05 AM, Drasnighta said:

It's game breaking in he fact hay, without guidance to know which way to go, I will worry that making any call could end up with my nose broken during s game, because the decision makes or breaks strategy or capability.

 

 

I have a strict "don't swing first" policy as a TO. I also have a strict "try to break a bone" policy when swinging back. 

 

I have had had no issues with disgruntled players as TO.... 

 

In seriousness, no player so far has fought with me or gotten openly aggressive with me if my call doesn't go their way. They have had - to a one - a very "TO's word is law, right or wrong" mentality with me. It has been very appreciated

Edited by Church14

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Just now, Church14 said:

I have a strict "don't swing first" policy as a TO. I also have a strict "try to break a bone" policy when swnging back. 

 

I have had had no issues with disgruntled players as TO.... 

 

In seriousness, no player so far has fought with me or gotten openly aggressive with me if my call doesn't go their way. They have had - to a one - a very "TO's word is law, right or wrong" mentality with me. It has been very appreciated

I have only twice had "pushback" on rules decisions in my career as a TO for multiple games.

 

The unfortunate matter is, one of them involved an actual push, and an actual swing at me...   So it is in the forefront of my mind as a possibility - perhaps only because I have experienced it first hand...

I appreciate and enjoy the fact that, 99.9% of the people who play Armada are friendly, open, considerate individuals...   Its just that 0.1% that are so bad they leave lasting scars.

Literally.

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On 9/6/2017 at 5:43 AM, Mward1984 said:

My current theory craft is that you put Raddus on the MC-75, and you have a relatively punchy Liberty MC80 build in reserve. Now all you need is a mailman. To my mind you have two choices here:

1: The Vette.

With Engine Techs is the fastest possible option, but it's not very punchy (comparatively speaking) and it can disintigrate under concentrated fire, although with your speed there's not going to be a lot of stuff that's going to get a chance.

2: The MC30

MUCH more dangerous than the Vette, and the titles give it some good survivability. However it's not as agile and you'll probably overshoot next turn.

 

I don't know - I think you might have a 3rd mailman option: Quantum Storm

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31 minutes ago, Church14 said:

I have a strict "don't swing first" policy as a TO. I also have a strict "try to break a bone" policy when swinging back. 

 

I have had had no issues with disgruntled players as TO.... 

 

In seriousness, no player so far has fought with me or gotten openly aggressive with me if my call doesn't go their way. They have had - to a one - a very "TO's word is law, right or wrong" mentality with me. It has been very appreciated

I've known a TO was wrong(FAQ) but not wanted to be an issue so just went with it. I don't really care, if that one rule they got wrong swung the game against me from being for me then I didnt deserve the win anyway. 

Edited by dominosfleet

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31 minutes ago, Drasnighta said:

I have only twice had "pushback" on rules decisions in my career as a TO for multiple games.

 

The unfortunate matter is, one of them involved an actual push, and an actual swing at me...   So it is in the forefront of my mind as a possibility - perhaps only because I have experienced it first hand...

I appreciate and enjoy the fact that, 99.9% of the people who play Armada are friendly, open, considerate individuals...   Its just that 0.1% that are so bad they leave lasting scars.

Literally.

I've seen people get "huffy" in 40k and Xwing(Especially Xwing) where i thought a physical altercation might happen but overall I've enjoyed the gaming communities. it's crazy to me that people get so upset at games. I've been on the bad side of dice/strategy and gotten irked because of it but i just think "well, i'm clearly bad at this game /get good" and take a seat while it's not my turn and I can watch the rest of my stuff evaporate. 

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35 minutes ago, Ken-Obi said:

I don't know - I think you might have a 3rd mailman option: Quantum Storm

 

MAYBE. Since it's effectively speed 4 with - I II - as it's knuckle options. But it's still only 3 Hull, and a Scatter will only get you so far. I think the Transport option has to be in multiples. You can easily replace a Vette or MC30 with it's equivalency in points. But what you gain in activations you lose in firepower.

Well for the MC-30. The Vette's firepower isn't too much of a loss, but the Vette with Engine techs is faster than anything in the game, and the less turns it takes to deliver the package the better.

The pros and cons are basically like this:

Engine Tech Corvette

Pros

  • Fastest
  • Some firepower
  • Able to turn around and maybe re-engage.

Cons

  • Not a lot of firepower
  • Somewhat less durable than the MC-30

 

MC-30

Pros

  • Incredible firepower
  • Toughest of all the options to put down thanks to titles and shields

Cons

  • Lacks ability to turn about
  • Highest points investment

 

Quantum Storm

Pros

  • Cheapest option by far
  • Scatter defence token

Cons

  • Least amount of shields and hp
  • A SINGLE Scatter defence token, and no access to ECM
  • Only somewhat more maneouverable than the MC-30

 

Thing is, all three of these could work with the right list. The Quantum is the cheap but risky options for a postman, the Corvette the quickest and the MC-30 the most likely to contribute itself in terms of firepower.

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Honestly, though, as long as you're not intending to get Stupidly Close (and the deployment of "at" distance helps with that), Scatter + Evade vs Long range Shots *generally* keeps you alive for the turn you need it.  After that, I think Slicer Tools is the best option for Mayhem in the Backfield...  Also, you don't have to do anything But Nav, so you get the extra clicks...

I think of them Quantum is the least risky...  But the assumption is you're keeping a bit of distance.

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8 hours ago, Ken-Obi said:

I guess I should have added that I was thinking QS is good in combination with another option - for 20 points you get an activation (always nice) and an additional headache the enemy has to deal with.  

 

Yeah I tried a quick rough and ready build on a Fleet Builder, and I found I could take a Libby, an Assault Frigate to carry Raddus, Quantum Storm and a CR90 and still have around 60pts left for Squadrons after upgrades. So it can work.

I really would like to see a Profundity article though, I think that ship is also gonna work really well in Ackbar lists, but until we see full point costs I can't tell for sure.

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1 hour ago, Mward1984 said:

I really would like to see a Profundity article though, I think that ship is also gonna work really well in Ackbar lists, but until we see full point costs I can't tell for sure.

With external racks (if possible) the conga won't be stopped parking in front of it anymore. :D

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On 8/25/2017 at 9:09 AM, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

Yea, as a chassis the MC-75 looks great.  It's the amazing love-child of an MC-75 and a Assault Frigate, with what appears to be the tankiness of an MC80.

But the Profundity title is appearing very meh.

We also dont know what the other titles offer yet.  This could very well be an amazing expansion. I agree it seems like the Profundity title seems too situational, but hopefully ffg offers some other upgrades to add more versatility.  It will be interesting to see if this ends up like another Mk2 frigate (in a sense of being a jack of all trades yet master of none) or surprising us as being the best thing yet for Rebs.

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14 minutes ago, BCvalor said:

We also dont know what the other titles offer yet.  This could very well be an amazing expansion. I agree it seems like the Profundity title seems too situational, but hopefully ffg offers some other upgrades to add more versatility.  It will be interesting to see if this ends up like another Mk2 frigate (in a sense of being a jack of all trades yet master of none) or surprising us as being the best thing yet for Rebs.

I've come around on the Assault Frigate. No other ship can legitimately run Flight Controllers in Rebels, and it's a great Adar Tallon spot. Put a Gallant Haven bunker on it and you got yourself some good shenanigans there. Sato and the Paragon are great together too. It WORKS, it just doesn't seem amazing at first glance. It wants support and friends to make it amazing, then it gets really good.

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In this game there is no long range attacks, so the title is pretty crap since it gives you one less activation.  No need for transport protection like in w40k

Raddus can work with a liberty through.

 

The new isd with thrawn is going too be superior though but most imperial stuff is usually better IMO

Edited by jocke01

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32 minutes ago, jocke01 said:

In this game there is no long range attacks, so the title is pretty crap since it gives you one less activation.  No need for transport protection like in w40k

Raddus can work with a liberty through.

 

The new isd with thrawn is going too be superior though but most imperial stuff is usually better IMO

I can’t say I agree with any of what you wrote.

 

Profundity value: Profundity is a risk/reward card that doubles down on Raddus. If it works, you have dropped an MC75 and something like a OE+ER Garel’s Honor into very uncomfortable positions on a big target. Or potentially setting up multiple forks against a swarm. I see a lot less value if you don’t run Raddus, but probably still some.

 

Activation advantage: If you have buried yourself in the belief that activation advantage is critical - which is only somewhat supported by recent tourney results - then sure, Raddus and Profundity have less value. If you think deployment advantage (or just plain old intelligent deployment) is a big advantage, then Raddus and Profundity are amazing. The number of Superior Position and Solar Corona chosen in fleets indicates most players think it is. You can out-deploy everyone that isn’t also running Raddus/Profundity. 

 

We have been playing the new ISDs locally. The Kuat is essentially a double-down on the ISD1. You get ECM, but lose the ability for a one-shot AvengerBT in large targets. It’s a fun platform for Expanded Launchers. Without Vader, the Cymoon plays exactly like a premium Pelta. More speed and durability, but craplousy offense for the cost.  So the Chimaera pack has added options without really adding anything decisive. I will certainly reevaluate that statement once we see titles.

 

The last lines sum up this wave for me. Chimaera may be a great pack with the new titles. Profundity is a great pack without seeing all the titles.

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1 hour ago, jocke01 said:

In this game there is no long range attacks, so the title is pretty crap since it gives you one less activation.  No need for transport protection like in w40k

I think people misunderstand Profundity. Its main use is not the Raddus Russian Dolls. 

Profundity lets you run a beefed up monster battleship with a highly prized admiral, Sato/Ackbar, and when the enemy go all in on killing your flag, a ET cr90 appears from hyperspace to ferry Ackbar/Sato to safety. 

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22 minutes ago, Ginkapo said:

I think people misunderstand Profundity. Its main use is not the Raddus Russian Dolls. 

Profundity lets you run a beefed up monster battleship with a highly prized admiral, Sato/Ackbar, and when the enemy go all in on killing your flag, a ET cr90 appears from hyperspace to ferry Ackbar/Sato to safety. 

I know that is the 'intent' of the title, but honestly, it's a poor idea to just wait for such an opportunity.  I can't think of a match where replacing my large flag ship with a small based lightweight and rescuing a couple points from that flag ship was going to tip the scales in my favor.  I'm not saying it can't happen.  There are certainly situations where this use would pay off, and could salvage a sure loss into a slim win....

However, I think you'd be better off keeping that in your back pocket as a possible escape while actually planning on using the ship offensively.

Storing 60 points as an escape vessel is pretty risky (CR90a, ET, plus profundity title).  If you are running an Ackbar build, wouldn't that CR90 be better as a TRC90 slinging Assault Frigate broadsides with guaranteed hits at the enemy for 51 points?  If you are running a Sato build, wouldn't that CR90 be better tossing some long range black to force targets to spend tokens or burn shields?  You could have several rounds of use, or keep that 50+ points ( Over 1/8 of your total points) locked away for a circumstance that may not happen.  Heck, just having that CR90 near your flagship means it's harder for enemy ships to approach.  You can sacrifice the lightweight to protect the flagship by acting as an obstruction, blocking approach paths, providing a little extra flak, etc.  Using an active ship to keep your flagship in battle for another round is likely more beneficial than letting the flag ship die so you can escape on another vessel.

For 1 more point than a CR90A with ET I could have a CR90B with ET and Pride.  Now you have a potential escape ship if needed, but you also have an effective anvil for your Profundity hammer.  Drop that CR90 when you are up close and personal with something.  Hit it hard with the Profundity, then have the CR90B add damage, or a crit, and double ram.  You pretty much have a guaranteed 3 unpreventable damage this way.  That's scary.  What about dropping that on a nearby Gozanti while you continue your assault on the main target.  Or how about Garel's Hammerhead with external racks into an unshielded or lightly shielded flank.  Red, Blue, 3 black followed by a crit ram.

These little ships can punch way above their weight if they can get into position, but they are fragile, and most people see them coming from a mile away.  At best you may get 1 round in with them.  At worst, they get removed before they can get into range.  The Profundity gives you the ability to safely escort them into the fight and potentially drop them in a spot where they can land way more damage with way less threat to their own lives.  A properly set up CR90B Pride could dish out 2 crits and 4 damage minimum in two rounds.

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