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TylerTT

what does compatibility with IA miniatures look like to you?

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This thread is not for arguing if their should or should not be compatibility between the two game's miniatures. That has been done to death. 

This thread is to better explore what people may want from IA miniature compatibility.

One thing clear to me is that Legion has a much tighter scope of subject matter then IA. There are lots of miniatures in IA that naturally have no place in Legion and should not be brought over. But plenty of models have great crossover potential or are new poses of old IA units.

There are also figures that I would describe as being nearly compatible but not worth creating their own unique unit profiles for. for example IA exclusive hero figures could be brought into legion with an alternate art version of an existing unit or upgrade card. Biv Bohdric could just be a heavy weapon attachment for a rebel squad. this would make me very happy as I could include these characters I already like and have painted and it would be easy for FFG to do. this option also avoids giving IA players unique units that would not be available to exclusively legion players.

The main thing standing in the way of proxying extra units with AI figures are three key components. Unit/upgrade cards, activation tokens, vehicle bases. I think FFG could sell a conversion kit or include a few extra cards in the base set of legion. 

Nothing less than being able to use IA stuff in official legion events will satisfy me. and I would like FFG to say something about any plans of compatibility sooner rather than later. a "we don't know yet" would be fine to me.

After looking at my IA figures the scale creep in IA puts legion well within that curve. Dengar is over 37MM tall!

 

 

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It's a hobby game, and I think a big part of any game like Legion is painting and modifying minis. As such, it would be kinda rotten for them to ban any modified minis from their official tournaments; and if you can bring stormtroopers that look different from the base ones, why not be able to bring Imperial Assault ones? (Couldn't you just claim they're modified Legion minis? How would anyone tell?)

 I think in the end FFG will be best off saying that any official FFG mini (of the right scale) can be used in the game. Seems like the best way to keep everyone happy. 

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7 minutes ago, Ailowynn said:

It's a hobby game, and I think a big part of any game like Legion is painting and modifying minis. As such, it would be kinda rotten for them to ban any modified minis from their official tournaments; and if you can bring stormtroopers that look different from the base ones, why not be able to bring Imperial Assault ones? (Couldn't you just claim they're modified Legion minis? How would anyone tell?)

 I think in the end FFG will be best off saying that any official FFG mini (of the right scale) can be used in the game. Seems like the best way to keep everyone happy. 

Because they are just legitimately overall smaller and less detailed.  Having seen them side by side there is absolutely no way you could claim that a IA model was a modified Legion model.

Edited by ScottieATF

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Legion is not IA and IA is not Legion.

I do not believe it's in FFGs interests to officially allow what are lower quality models to be used from a separate game.  It will detract from the atheistics they are attempting to create with the more detailed models.  

IA is a SW board game and as such exists in a different distribution channel then all their other products.  I feel it is incredibly unlikely that FFG come out with a separate product to convert a product they already can't distribute themselves, that would simply siphon sales from the new (and superior for the purpose in question) product.

I think the idea that IA will be made compatible with Legion is purely an invention of some people's minds.  It seems a bit weird to demand FFG confirm or deny an invented rumor they never implied in anyway.

I believe they should and will have separate games exist as separate games.

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What would this "conversion kit" even contain?

In Legion, a Stormtrooper squad contains a specific amount of miniatures. That squad can take a specific number of certain upgrades. There isn't even an IA sculpt of a Stormtrooper armed with a HH-12. But even if there was ...

... how would FFG know which IA minis in what quantities customers have in order to make a worthwhile "conversion kit"?

They could not even just publish a box of Legion components to cover the IA base game because the IA base game doesn't contain the types of miniatures in sufficient quantities to play Legion.

"I will not be satisfied until FFG offers an IA conversion kit."

Let's be honest, how likely is it that you will ever be satisfied?

Edited by Manchu

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Wouldn't a conversion kit kinda force Legion players to buy IA stuff? Troopers, sure whatever, but what abt the rebel heroes in the IA core box. Would those be commanders or special forces in Legion? Either way, all of a sudden you'll be missing out on a whole bunch of unit types, unless you pick up the conversion kit and the IA core box. At least this is how it seems to me, am i missing something?

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@ScottieATFthat's not the point of this thread. Argue against compatability elsewhere.

@Manchu

Content of a conversion kit would be something like this

A few stormtrooper unit cards. A few extra single stormtrooper upgrade cards.

snow trooper unit card

1-2 AT-ST unit cards

AT ST base

heavy trooper unit card

jump trooper unit card

E web unit card 

punch board activation tokens

Etc.

But go ahead and believe I'm beyond all reason and can never be satisfied. 

 

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Just now, rabidaskal said:

Wouldn't a conversion kit kinda force Legion players to buy IA stuff? Troopers, sure whatever, but what abt the rebel heroes in the IA core box. Would those be commanders or special forces in Legion? Either way, all of a sudden you'll be missing out on a whole bunch of unit types, unless you pick up the conversion kit and the IA core box. At least this is how it seems to me, am i missing something?

Did you read my post? I said there is a whole lot of stuff from AI that should not be brought over for those reasons! I even said how they can use some of it by simply providing alt art cards of standard legion cards. 

Like making an alt art heavy weapons figure unit upgrade card that has Biv Bohrik on it.

Legion players can just buy products that include the normal heavy weapons figure. 

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No matter how much IA players would like it, an official conversion kit is definitely not gonna happen, but in a casual setting nothing stops you from using your IA minis and proxy the cards.
I would encourage to do so, this hobby is about having fun and I think that some kind of custom "RPGish" scenarios with the cool models from IA with custom made cards (trying to be close to the FFG point cost system) will make for really fun campaigns and break from the standard play, short after release most people will be willing to try new stuff like this :) **** this might even encourage IA sale in order to get more plastic and try conversions and all that crazy wargaming stuff

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2 hours ago, TylerTT said:

Did you read my post? I said there is a whole lot of stuff from AI that should not be brought over for those reasons! I even said how they can use some of it by simply providing alt art cards of standard legion cards. 

Like making an alt art heavy weapons figure unit upgrade card that has Biv Bohrik on it.

Legion players can just buy products that include the normal heavy weapons figure. 

I read your post, i just cant picture the execution. Or will the conversion kit be entirely cosmetic? Alt art cards etc. If that's the case, then yeah sure, i guess. As long as there's no impact on gameplay.

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A kit that is nothing more than a alternative art conversion would be fine.  Turn Biv into a generic heavy weapon  rebel trooper with the stats as the current one shouldn't bother anyone I'd think.  Then there's no reason to buy the IA stuff unless you were going to do it anyway. 

 

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The problem would come if you started having conversion kits for figures not yet released for Legion. What if the first place you could get AT-ST or Wookie Warriors for Legion was in the IA conversion kit? Then you'd have new Legion players upset that they needed to buy inferior figures for a different game to be as competitive in Legion as everyone else! I'm a serious IA fan, and have at least one of each expansion, but I can see how being flexible to allow IA players to use their Han Solo figure could seriously alienate new players who don't want to have to buy IA expansions for Legion. If all we're talking about is using IA figures for existing Legion units, like more Stormtroopers, or different pose/outfit Rebel troopers, do you need anything other than duplicate unit cards?

If people seriously want rules for their Lando Calrissian figure, why should IA players get to use him potentially years before Legion only players?!

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I think FFG needs to keep the two lines seperated for official games purposes. If you want to make house rules and special cards for IA pieces then go for it, nothing stopping you.

As others have mentioned, allowing IA content in Legion would negatively impact the look of the game and allow the potential for power creep.

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I'll use them in private games (I have all expansions and about a third of them painted) but I would prefer not to mix them in official tournaments for aesthetic reasons.

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@TylerTT

That conversion kit idea is terrible. What if someone doesn't have the IA figs included in the conversion kit? Then those components are useless to them. Again, FFG has no way to know which IA components a certain customer has. The conversion kit is therefore inherently inefficient.

@General Zodd also makes strong points about disrupting the Legion release schedule.

Edited by Manchu

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10 hours ago, General Zodd said:

The problem would come if you started having conversion kits for figures not yet released for Legion. 

You really don't get the point Tyler is making.

The point isn't that someone can use Lando a year or more before he's released for legion.   The point was that any model that could be used as a proxy for an existing Legion model, so only those units in wave 1 could be used.

So IA Stormtroopers could be used as Stormtroopers.   Fenn could be used as a generic rebel trooper.  Biv could be used as a generic heavy trooper.   If there were some sort of generic commander in Wave 1, many of the other heroes could be used as the model for the generic commander.  

The conversion kit would have a card called Biv Bodhrik but the stats on it would be exactly the same as the stats on the Rebel Trooper heavy upgrade would.  So in terms of game mechanics they'd be exactly the same as the legion units.  The only advantage that a IA player would have is they could avoid buying a few of the Wave 1 stuff... But would have to pay for the conversion kit.

It's really no different than using a proxy model really... Only in this case they'd be officially recognized by FFG as useable for Legion.

3 hours ago, Manchu said:

@TylerTT

That conversion kit idea is terrible. What if someone doesn't have the IA figs included in the conversion kit?

Then they wouldn't buy it?  I mean again we're talking about official proxies here, so if you didn't already have the model you just wouldn't buy the conversion kit.   Honestly all the conversion kit would really do is make proxies official.  

3 hours ago, Manchu said:

@General Zodd also makes strong points about disrupting the Legion release schedule.

Not really, because he didn't understand what Tyler was actually suggesting.  It would be a cardboard only box that would do little more then let you use official proxies.  It wouldn't require anything be released sooner than planned or anything.  Because it would only have cards for units that could be used to proxy for stuff that's already in wave 1.  I suppose they could actually release more conversion kits for other waves... Which would actually let them make money off something a lot of people are already going to do...

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Guest Jorvic

Sorry if this is dumb question but I'm new to traversing the forum. This might be covered in another thread, but does anyone know the scale of the legion miniatures?  I think someone said they were larger in one of the above posts.  I'm thinking about trying to start making terrain and I want to be good when I start trying to find and buy model kits and toys that match.  

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@General Zodd

If FFG included characters or units that were not yet released in legion they could easily say those cards and proxies are not tournament legal untill the equivalent legion product is released. 

Scale wise

Stylistically IA figures are closer to true scale models, legion figures have the slightly larger face and hands and greater depth of detail typical to gaming miniatures.

After measuring my IA miniatures most of them are in scale with legion's reported measurements. as there has been a slight scale creep in IA. 

Anything meant for table top gaming should be ok for legion. 

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@TylerTT, I believe that I understand what it is you want. I believe it is something that could be done, but I am not sure as to the viability of it.

The Positives: it would allow IA players to use (some of) their models in Legion. This would add revenues in the sales of conversion kits. Additionally, some IA players who might not otherwise have played Legion would do so and would add sales to Legion in that way (and vice versa).

The Negatives: It would split sales for Legion into those purchasing Legion minis and those purchasing IA+Conversion. This seems to be the same or even higher revenues, but in actuality creates great risk. FFG would have to accurately surmise the numbers of IA players who would play Legion and vice versa. To misjudge would be to print far too many conversion kits. Additionally, FFG may believe that sales of Legion kits are more profitable than conversion kits even after a loss of possible IA/Legion players. In addition to these financial reasons, if Legion is to be a true Table Top Miniature Game that competes with GW and others, then it MUST focus on a modeling component. This means that aesthetics are a big part. Single sculpt models are typically not highly thought of when nicer models are available (there are, of course, exceptions).

All this to say, that I could be wrong, but I MIGHT understand FFGs reasons for not having conversion kits of the type you suggest.

To be upfront, I also believe that insisting on compatibility between two different games just because they both involve minis and are the same IP is problematic. I understand how people would have liked it, but it was by no means a spit in the face of IA players.

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@VanorDM

There are two routes. One, produce cards for existing IA models. @General Zodd accurately explains why this is unworkable. So sure, let's discount that possibility. Just keep in mind, that leaves most IA figs unusable in Legion.

The other route amounts to publishing a Legion core set without the minis. As I mentioned, there are not IA models for some Legion options, even just those included in the core set. As you say, such a conversion kit would make proxies official. But not really. What would you use to proxy a HH-12 stormie? It's one thing to use whatever model in a friendly game (which of course would require no conversion kit to begin with) but WYSIWYG is important in competitive play. Indeed, this is why there is a separate line of Legion miniatures in the first place. @ryanabt kind of hints at this above, but it's probably (indeed, most likely) not in FFG's interests to encourage people to play Legion with anything but Legion components, including Legion miniatures. It's not just about sales volume, either. There are brand considerations (IA models are not as nice).

Moreover, asking FFG to divorce one category of components (miniatures) from another (the cards corresponding to those miniatures) is beyond the pale becuase it cuts against their entire business model.  The RW Essentials Pack is the closest I think we will ever see, and the components sold in that product are not tied to specific miniatures.

Finally, this conversion kit is a product with a closed end market. How many people who have enough IA models to be able to proxy a Legion army and want to play Legion do not want to just, you know, buy Legion? How many of those want to play Legion with IA models in Legion OP? And how many would make buying Legion contingent upon FFG publishing a conversion kit that would in effect actually mean they would not have to buy Legion to play it?

This is why I wonder if such a person could ever really be satisfied. It's such an unreasonable, demanding position, especially considering it is also probably a corner case anyhow.

Edited by Manchu

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