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Mon no Oni

Keeper/Seeker only. Mistep?

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1 hour ago, Mon no Oni said:

I see your point but, honestly, how do you identify yourself to your fellow players? As a Crane player, or as a Seeker player? What's the mon on your profile?

That is a false division and a holdover mentality from the ccg.

In the future the conflict between the Keepers and the Seekers may end up becoming more important to the story than which individual Clan wins something. The story is likely going to be focused around the 7+ great clans shifting around between 2 megafactions.

As the LCG goes on the Keepers and Seekers may end up developing distinct personalities as factions. Players will likely end up being "X clan player who favors the Seekers/Keepers" rather than just "X clan player." Clan will be your "family" while Keeper/Seeker will likely be "the group of friends you hang with."

1 hour ago, Mon no Oni said:

When opening a pack, you will look at the cards with your colors first; the rest is secondary, even if weeks later in hindsight splash card from Clan X has become a key part of your deck.

That is likely going to be a mentality that will need to be broken/removed from the players base.

Players will need to look at all conflict cards as neutral instead of looking at the color boarder of the conflict card.

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28 minutes ago, Ultimatecalibur said:

In the future the conflict between the Keepers and the Seekers may end up becoming more important to the story than which individual Clan wins something. The story is likely going to be focused around the 7+ great clans shifting around between 2 megafactions.

As the LCG goes on the Keepers and Seekers may end up developing distinct personalities as factions. Players will likely end up being "X clan player who favors the Seekers/Keepers" rather than just "X clan player." Clan will be your "family" while Keeper/Seeker will likely be "the group of friends you hang with."

I strongly doubt that.  Each year the clans will change their roles, and people aren't going to think "Oh boy, I better get a seeker role because I'm a seeker."  What will likely happen is the clans will have different play styles divided between the seeker / keeper roles, and faction players will be whatever role their faction is that year.  The Keeper / Seeker isn't a choice each player makes for themselves, which is part of the critique* of the system.  If anyone switches factions because their keeper / seeker was swapped I would assume they simply weren't a faction player to begin with.  I don't see them gaining anything valuable enough simply in being seeker / keeper that is worth more than what a clan gives.

* (part I disagree with, as I'm sure we'll have good options for both roles, and there is always casual play to experiment and experience different deck types.)

Edited by shosuko

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3 hours ago, Mon no Oni said:

That's my point 2. That's all well if the community knows the full range of possibilities. Will all 14 cards have been spoiled by November? If not some Clans will have advantage over others.

Not really - if a card is spoiled late then assessing how good it is, where it can be played and how to play against it is the same for either opponent. Same for any FFG game. 

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 Thing is, what if one of the keeper/seeker cards has great synergy with other cards that haven't been revealed yet? Then we could look at it and be like, "well it's okay, but totally underwhelming compared to my other option, I'll pass." And then down the road we see the other card(s) it's meant to combo with and we'll be all, "****, why didn't they show us this before? This is WAY better, now I'm stuck with the other one..."

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3 hours ago, Zesu Shadaban said:

 Thing is, what if one of the keeper/seeker cards has great synergy with other cards that haven't been revealed yet? Then we could look at it and be like, "well it's okay, but totally underwhelming compared to my other option, I'll pass." And then down the road we see the other card(s) it's meant to combo with and we'll be all, "****, why didn't they show us this before? This is WAY better, now I'm stuck with the other one..."

Then switch it next year and play it then.

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Speaking as one of Ye Olde Unicorns, I could not care less what role we have. I will trample opponents to dust beneath my hooves.

I mean, in a friendly way. =)

With new cards coming every month in the LCG model, strategies will change constantly. As an example, a deck in my area won an AGoT Regional Championship in May (Targ Fealty.) That deck seemed very dominant in the meta, but that didn't seem to work out for people at GenCon (by reports, I was stuck at work. Gratz to AJ for second place.) That's with 2 chapter packs - a mere 4 cards per faction - released between tourney metas. Up one month, down the next.

I predict many competitive people will have a Clan Loyal tourney deck and their ideal/fun deck and practice with both. That ideal deck might switch between Keeper/Seeker/Faction three or four times during the year.  I suggest we all become accustomed to constantly re-evaluating our strategies, because we are moving from a "Solvable" three-month meta to a basically "Never Solvable" monthly release.

The role decision will always be, essentially, made in the dark. Now that I'm typing this out, I might be convincing myself that Element is more important than K/S. Anyway, try and have some fun playing L5R, because it's awesome and there are good people here.

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9 hours ago, Cambeul no Oni said:

Plot Twist: Seeker vs. Keeper is actually Pan'ku vs. Fudo

I see it more as Progressives vs. Traditionalists.

The Seekers are likely to be more proactively searching for threats (possibly triggering them early when they are lesser threats but also might before everyone is ready) where the Keepers are likely to be more reactive (build power but unintentionally letting threats get bigger).

9 hours ago, shosuko said:

I strongly doubt that.  Each year the clans will change their roles, and people aren't going to think "Oh boy, I better get a seeker role because I'm a seeker."  What will likely happen is the clans will have different play styles divided between the seeker / keeper roles, and faction players will be whatever role their faction is that year.  The Keeper / Seeker isn't a choice each player makes for themselves, which is part of the critique* of the system.  If anyone switches factions because their keeper / seeker was swapped I would assume they simply weren't a faction player to begin with.  I don't see them gaining anything valuable enough simply in being seeker / keeper that is worth more than what a clan gives.

* (part I disagree with, as I'm sure we'll have good options for both roles, and there is always casual play to experiment and experience different deck types.)

That's only if Seeker/Keeper is only a mechanical factor and has no influence on the story.

I do not expect many players to swap clan based on which role they get, but I expect the Keeper/Seeker yearly choices might influence how the clan leadership acts in story that year. This was the family/friends dichotomy I was referring to.

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I totally agree to the OP, and as i already have stated in other threads, i find the whole idea of assigning clans a fixed role decided by some players after worlds a bad idea.

Players should be able to choose their keeper/seeker role freely. Especially now, having more influence can make a difference in deckbuilding, and given the limited card base they should give players total freedom of design in order to make more distinct decks possible for players that think a bit outside the box.

I mean it's totally fine to choose a role for storyline purposes for the clan, but just let players take up the role they want, even at official tounaments. For me that would be ideal.

Edited by ForceM

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Just let me point I'm not against fixed roles. Far from it! What I'm against is in the timing of these particular cards, for the reasons exposed. If these cards were either neutral, or printed in a later cycle when the card pool is bigger, I would have no gripe.

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Early keeper/seeker cards can make the game a little bit bumpy due to cardpool but it shouldn't be a big deal in deck building.

It may suck not to be able to use your favourite role because someone else said so but I'd like to think that the game is balanced well enough so you can still make a good deck. Even if you are forced to avoid some cards (that may be out of clan too).

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If there is problem it can be easily changed so in rules that you can not chose same role and same ring when chosing the new.

So every time it is: We now have Ring 1 and keeper. Next have to be Ring 2, 3 , 4 or 5 and seeker. So the keeper, seeker role will rotate constantly also beside the element. So you don't be in situation where you newer could use you keeper/seeker cards.

 

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On 8/25/2017 at 5:52 PM, Iuchi Toshimo said:

Speaking as one of Ye Olde Unicorns, I could not care less what role we have. I will trample opponents to dust beneath my hooves.

I wish I could like this twice, just because it's so rare to see someone properly saying, "could not care less" rather than, "could care less"!

20 hours ago, Hannibal_pjv said:

If there is problem it can be easily changed so in rules that you can not chose same role and same ring when chosing the new.

So every time it is: We now have Ring 1 and keeper. Next have to be Ring 2, 3 , 4 or 5 and seeker. So the keeper, seeker role will rotate constantly also beside the element. So you don't be in situation where you newer could use you keeper/seeker cards.

 

We already have the requirement that you can't choose the same ring/role combo as your clan had previously, you can't have the same ring/role combo as another clan (which may get to choose before you), and Rokugan can only have a max of four seekers or four keepers.  I think it's a pretty safe bet that clans will be forced into shifting their meta as it is.  

Personally, I'm just wondering if once a year will be often enough for the competitive folks.

Edited by JJ48

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33 minutes ago, JJ48 said:

I wish I could like this twice, just because it's so rare to see someone properly saying, "could not care less" rather than, "could care less"!

We already have the requirement that you can't choose the same ring/role combo as your clan had previously, you can't have the same ring/role combo as another clan (which may get to choose before you), and Rokugan can only have a max of four seekers or four keepers.  I think it's a pretty safe bet that clans will be forced into shifting their meta as it is.  

Personally, I'm just wondering if once a year will be often enough for the competitive folks.

I thought I heard at some point before Worlds clans will have access to a 2nd role.

 

I'm guessing two roles a year? A big shift at the start of each competition year and a wrinkle half way through.

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The use of Keeper/Seeker only cards doesn't bother me, mainly because most of my play is local for fun, rather than any tournaments.

Being able to choose to disregard the clan role if I want is great, and you could always agree in a friendly match to switch between roles if you wanted.

But, for major events, being forced to use the clan role is okay with me because it's just another thing that is required and easy to slot in. My standard deck is based on Keeper, but I have a few small, as in 2-3 cards, tweaks that can run as Seeker.

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27 minutes ago, Shu2jack said:

I thought I heard at some point before Worlds clans will have access to a 2nd role.

 

I'm guessing two roles a year? A big shift at the start of each competition year and a wrinkle half way through.

The second role will only be in effect at the next Worlds and a special in-store event. 

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The only thing that is bugging me about the Keeper/Seeker role split is that if your Clan chooses a Keeper, your Seeker card is available for other cans to purchase with Influence, but you have no access to it.

At this point, I think I'd rather have it that the card just isn't usable by anyone unless the Clan whose card it is has chosen that role.

Might just be me, though.

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On 8/24/2017 at 7:50 PM, Khift said:

I'm totally fine with it up until the point when they start making clan dynasty cards seeker/keeper only. If that happens, they've crossed the line. As is, while Lion can't use their current piece of tech sure, Scorpion and Phoenix could by splashing it. But if they print a seeker only dynasty card, that's a card that may literally never be playable by anyone ever because it's totally possible that Lion always goes keeper for example.

Northern Wall Sensei, the Dragon Bushi from For Honor and Glory.

It's a "Keeper Only" Dynasty character. No splashing.
Dragon are a Seeker atm. So no one gets to play this card.

It already happened.

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1 hour ago, Bayushi Tsubaki said:

Northern Wall Sensei, the Dragon Bushi from For Honor and Glory.

It's a "Keeper Only" Dynasty character. No splashing.
Dragon are a Seeker atm. So no one gets to play this card.

It already happened.

Psst - the post you replied to was from August, guv ;)

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1 hour ago, Barbacuo said:

Keeper/seeker only cards are fine. People choosing roles for everyone else is not.

What do you suggest?  If, as many speculate, the role of a clan is important to the story, how should it be decided?

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3 hours ago, JJ48 said:

What do you suggest?  If, as many speculate, the role of a clan is important to the story, how should it be decided?

A vote would be nice. Organize a specific event, like the previous imperial summons one, where every store would have a tournament and ask every participating player of each clan to vote for a keeper/seeker role. Only one vote per player matters. If a player plays in multiple events, the last vote he/she enters would be the one considered. Votes decide the role for the year.

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1 hour ago, Shosuro Teri said:

A vote would be nice. Organize a specific event, like the previous imperial summons one, where every store would have a tournament and ask every participating player of each clan to vote for a keeper/seeker role. Only one vote per player matters. If a player plays in multiple events, the last vote he/she enters would be the one considered. Votes decide the role for the year.

too complex - and what do you do if multiple clans vote for the same role?  Better to just take the shaft for the year even if some cards you want aren't available.

The only solution I see besides that ^ is to let anyone use their clan role, and any unclaimed role.

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