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Imperial Advisor Arem Heshvaun

New Dreadnaught and Walker Reveal

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2 hours ago, kris40k said:

Is that an honest question?

The reason General Veers and the AT-AT's were required to attack the Hoth Base shield generators in Empire is because the planetary shield was raised when they came out of hyperspace early and it was powerful enough to deflect orbital attacks. This has also been demonstrated in Rebels when Thrawn assaulted "Chopper Base" and is a major plot point of both Rogue One and The Force Awakens.

Mobile ground artillery units are a requirement in land war in the Star Wars Universe. Defenses against orbital strikes are a thing. 

But why use an AT-AT chassis?

The AT-AT can already destroy fortifications once through the shield, there's no reason to put your artillery guns on a frontline combat chassis. A chassis from the last war. They built a planet that could suck up stars don't tell me they didn't have the resources for a new artillery platform.

And even if they can justify it from a lore perspective that doesn't mean I have to be happy about them re-using assets until all the interest is worn out of them. It's an AT-AT. With a shoulder gun and flippers. For the Clone Wars they spit out so many new and interesting designs: some you only saw for a second or two. Every movie was worth watching again and again, even if you didn't like the plot there was so much new stuff to see.

Pod races, Naboo, Felucia, Utapau, Mustafar, all of the clone weapons and vehicles, all of the droid weapons and vehicles, new species, and so many new ships. Padme alone had like 4 different star cruisers. I was disappointed to see in TFA re-hash Tatooine, re-hash Yaviny planet, re-hash pretty much everything. There were new things: Starship graveyard on Jakku, Flametroopers, the Single star destroyer was kind of new, the Stormtrooper armor was a little different. But the TIEs were just re-colors, and the X-wings were just re-colors with engine mods,  they blew up the Death Star 3 and I've seen it all before but done better and with more soul in the originals.

I've seen the old Star Wars.

For the new Star Wars I want to see something new: don't you?

Image result for Star wars republic vehicles


Edit: And it's not that hard. They pump out new ships and vehicles and story lines for tabletop games, and computer games. New planets, interesting stories. They can't put the same effort into the actual movie? Look at these:

latest?cb=20140330184341&path-prefix=nl

Background ships for an MMO. Later they added a module where you can explode the little ones by the bucketfull. That's too much to ask for a multi-million dollar movie?

I'm sorry. It's not you, and I might be too worked up over it. It's just Star Wars was a big part of my life, and it's disappointing to see them spreading it thin instead of whipping up something fresh..

Edited by OneKelvin

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11 minutes ago, OneKelvin said:

But why use an AT-AT chassis?

The AT-AT can already destroy fortifications once through the shield, there's no reason to put your artillery guns on a frontline combat chassis. A chassis from the last war. They built a planet that could suck up stars don't tell me they didn't have the resources for a new artillery platform.

And even if they can justify it from a lore perspective that doesn't mean I have to be happy about them re-using assets until all the interest is worn out of them. It's an AT-AT. With a shoulder gun and flippers. For the Clone Wars they spit out so many new and interesting designs: some you only saw for a second or two. Every movie was worth watching again and again, even if you didn't like the plot there was so much new stuff to see.

Pod races, Naboo, Felucia, Utapau, Mustafar, all of the clone weapons and vehicles, all of the droid weapons and vehicles, new species, and so many new ships. Padme alone had like 4 different star cruisers. I was disappointed to see in TFA re-hash Tatooine, re-hash Yaviny planet, re-hash pretty much everything. There were new things: Starship graveyard on Jakku, Flametroopers, the Single star destroyer was kind of new, the Stormtrooper armor was a little different. But the TIEs were just re-colors, and the X-wings were just re-colors with engine mods,  they blew up the Death Star 3 and I've seen it all before but done better and with more soul in the originals.

I've seen the old Star Wars.

For the new Star Wars I want to see something new: don't you?

Image result for Star wars republic vehicles


Edit: And it's not that hard. They pump out new ships and vehicles and story lines for tabletop games, and computer games. New planets, interesting stories. They can't put the same effort into the actual movie? Look at these:

latest?cb=20140330184341&path-prefix=nl

Background ships for an MMO. Later they added a module where you can explode the little ones by the bucketfull. That's too much to ask for a multi-million dollar movie?

I'm sorry. It's not you, and I might be too worked up over it. It's just Star Wars was a big part of my life, and it's disappointing to see them spreading it thin instead of whipping up something fresh..

its disney... they figure they can buy our childhood and sell it back to us as garbage. i wouldnt expect much effort from them

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And yet, you have just as many, if not more people complaining about the designs in the prequels "not being SW". 

I like the AT-M6, it is an interesting fusion between the AT-AT and the AT-TE. And the front legs are a new, interesting design. We also have the TIE Silencer, Resistance Bomber, and the Mandator IV (nice little EU nod there) Dreadnaught with new designs. I'm sure we are going to get a bunch of other stuff as well. 

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2 minutes ago, Sithborg said:

And yet, you have just as many, if not more people complaining about the designs in the prequels "not being SW". 

I like the AT-M6, it is an interesting fusion between the AT-AT and the AT-TE. And the front legs are a new, interesting design. We also have the TIE Silencer, Resistance Bomber, and the Mandator IV (nice little EU nod there) Dreadnaught with new designs. I'm sure we are going to get a bunch of other stuff as well. 

Pretty much this... probably the same people complaining that the prequels ships not being star wars enough are complaining about the new stuff being to star wars.

 

 

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I love how day after day I read complaints about how un-star warsy X-wing has become. Then whenever a new ship is revealed, the collective moan is "ugh, too star warsy!"

**** it The Mouse/FFG, why can't you get it right?! It's simple, just design something that awakens that Star Wars nostalgia of my childhood, that happens to look nothing like something from Star Wars, yet is aesthetically unmistakably Star Wars.

 

 

...And try not to mess it up this time, please and thank you.

 

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5 hours ago, Vontoothskie said:

the new star destroyer is 5 miles long and 2 miles wide! the new tie fighter is 40 feet tall! the new a-wing is longer too! bigger winged shuttles! bigger walker! bigger death star! 

for **** sake the even the new emperor Snoke is a giant dude. so absurd

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I think Snoke actually is very tiny, and it's just an oversized projection.

That said, I also think that the First Order is just a bunch of very young trying-hard-but-failing Empire-wannabees used by old guys like Snoke pulling strings in the background. Too young to have been around when the Empire was there, now trying to mock the Empire's original builds, trying to trump over each other (remember Snoke playing out Hux and Kylo against each other?). That could explain some of the ridiculous designs. However those giant guns on both the walker and the dreadnought definitely give me Dora vibes

1920px-Gesch%C3%BCtzDora2.JPG

 

A weapon obsolete already when on the  drafting board. And totally ineffective as in binding up so many resources and manpower.

 

Unfortunately TFA was clipped so badly, that we never get an explanation what the First Order is.

(While there are some arguments about George Lucas originally intending a greek antiques like cycling story), the things spoiled for TLJ so far (I am trying to avoid spoilers, this thread SHOULD have been MARKED spoiler) actually feed the suspicion that revenue managers dictate the storyboard too much, clinging to conservatism instead of fresh designs. Could be also a consequence of the prequels being eye candy, but otherwise botched execution making even storyboard designers overly conservative.

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While I'm not a fan of these new designs right now, I acknowledge that they might grow on me.

And I must point out that Kylo Ren's Upsilon-class shuttle was a great step forward: recognizable as a shuttle, but starkly different in color and shape from the Lambda. And then they took a step backwards with Krennic's shuttle in Rogue One. Sigh.

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5 hours ago, Animewarsdude said:

The fact that the AT-M6 is an artillery piece at least makes it a little interesting, though I think the gun on its back would look better if it looked more cannon like than how it does now. The Dreadnaught is said to be focused for orbital bombardment but is it really all that better than a  few ISDs which can slag a planet already fairly well? And as someone pointed out in the Armada forums the barrels on it are so big that a CR90 or a Nuebulon B frigate could fly into them...which I really hope doesn't end up being how it is destroyed. Though I do get the feeling that either during this film or the next one we will find that the Resistance has to race against the clock to destroy or disable those cannons before they can be used on some resistance base or the like. 

Well, an artillery piece on an existing old chassis seems like a sensible adaption - in the same way the TIE/fo was "we have better tech, but fewer pilots so let's bolt more capability onto a TIE fighter".  The gun on the back doesn't appear massively larger than the chin guns we're used to seeing on AT-ATs, though. 

The 'artillery walker' reminds me a lot of one of the designs in the Force Awakens art book - which had a lot of cool things I wished/hope will be somewhere in the series (like a scuba scene in fragments of the death star II underwater on endor, or a biiiiiig lightsaber battle on a snow world by a crashed destroyer). 

The 'big gun' doesn't make sense for a generic combat unit - as noted, it's a lousy ship to ship weapon. If it is specifically designed to breach planetary shields, though, I can see it being a sensible idea ("the resistance base is under an energy shield" "what's your point?"). The art book had something similar for that, too (for the starkiller base attack)- although it took a different approach - the resistance warhammer - a massive capital ship designed to ram its way through planetary shields and deploy fighters on the other side.

 

 

I am a massive fan of all the SWTOR designs. My only real problem with that setting is the extent to which everyone and their grandma was apparently a force user on a scale that made Yoda look like a punk...the actual military forces looked rather cool.

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My take away from this is that Yoda is a pilot in BF 2. Will FFG bring a single ship to both factions, ie the ETA 2 with different pilots for the Rebels/Empire factions?

Obi Wan, Yoda and Anakin for Rebels
Anakin turned, Maul was in an ETA in the BF 2 trailer, and some other named bad guy for the Empire. 

Maybe this could be a thing, or I should get out of the chem room at work and get some fresh air...

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3 hours ago, Sekac said:

**** it The Mouse/FFG, why can't you get it right?! It's simple, just design something that awakens that Star Wars nostalgia of my childhood, that happens to look nothing like something from Star Wars, yet is aesthetically unmistakably Star Wars.

Lucas could do this, it's not our fault that he is a genius and he set the bar so high Disney isn't even trying to jump over it.

 

The idiotic Star Destroyer - it's not whether or not it looks like Star Wars. In ANY movie it would look equally terrible, although the fact that we are used to great looking ships form the OT and the PT, and even Kylo's star destroyer, adds insult to injury.

It's like a five years old kid tried to draw an ISD and then they decided to make it into CGI. Like those artists that take childs' drawings of monsters and make them look realistic, except that in this case they didn't tweak anything, just staight up made it 1:1 into CGI.

Everything about it looks infantile, basic, unimaginative, and boring, with no details, messed up angles and proportions depriving it of any sense of scale, and the gun which looks just infantile and stupid, exactly like something a small kid would put on their design.

 

EDIT To makes it worse, it all lights up red when it fires. Seriously, the designer talks about it in the interview (although to be fair it looks like the guy knows how terrible this thing looks and tries to excuse himself over and over, it's quite funny). This is some Marvel cartoon villain-level **** right there.

My favourite bits of the interview:

 I feel that we are making sense of First Order technology and trying to tie it together, rather than just doing cool ships. It’s hopefully cool because of what it does and its design makes sense for the story, and then hopefully future generations will think it’s cool because of what it ends up doing in the movie. 

(...)But for different reasons, because when the Dreadnought was [requested], “Oh, we need another ship,” I thought it was just a flippant, “Oh, we just need another thing,” and it turned into a whole sequence around what it needed to be.

This guy knows how terrible it is. He hopes we will appreciate it for what it does because he is fully aware there is no way to appreciate how it looks.

 

Sequels were a mistake.

Edited by eMeM

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"It is time for the galaxy to end."

When I watched The Force Awakens it felt as though both sides were crumbling. That this was their final breaths before they become nothing more than a faint memory.

The Original Trilogy, Rebels and Rogue One gave us much more life. The Empire and Rebels Alliance we're full of energy. 

So far, TFA and the leaks and trailer for TLJ just make it seem as though the Star Wars galaxy is dying. An old, wheezing elephant slowly plodding towards the water in the futile hope of survival only to collapse within inches. As the dust settles around it, the elephant groans as it slowly reaches out with it's paining, trembling trunk, only to gasp it's last breath and die as the trunk hits the surface of the water.

By the way I kinda liked The Force Awakens, and can't wait to see The Last Jedi. But not as excited as I am to see Season Three of Rebels or the Han Solo movie.

 

Just feels as if Star Wars beyond the Galactic Civil War is dying, whereas I'd hoped the Sequels would bring new life to the franchise.

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1 hour ago, Tommy Blunderbuss said:

"It is time for the galaxy to end."

When I watched The Force Awakens it felt as though both sides were crumbling. That this was their final breaths before they become nothing more than a faint memory.

The Original Trilogy, Rebels and Rogue One gave us much more life. The Empire and Rebels Alliance we're full of energy. 

So far, TFA and the leaks and trailer for TLJ just make it seem as though the Star Wars galaxy is dying. An old, wheezing elephant slowly plodding towards the water in the futile hope of survival only to collapse within inches. As the dust settles around it, the elephant groans as it slowly reaches out with it's paining, trembling trunk, only to gasp it's last breath and die as the trunk hits the surface of the water.

By the way I kinda liked The Force Awakens, and can't wait to see The Last Jedi. But not as excited as I am to see Season Three of Rebels or the Han Solo movie.

 

Just feels as if Star Wars beyond the Galactic Civil War is dying, whereas I'd hoped the Sequels would bring new life to the franchise.

Well if there is any hope maybe they'll get Dave Filoni to work on a sequel era animated series, say what we will of Clone Wars and Rebels (which can be bad at times, *shudders at helicopter sabers*) but he does have a sense for the world and tries to make it fun and give the fans stuff they want like Thrawn, or Republic Commandos, or etc, etc... Just look at how he and his team made the prequel characters have better depth than the films, maybe they can do the same down the line, I mean they have to have ended Rebels for more than just the animated star wars girl power shorts (I can't be bothered to go and look up the name of the show).

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10 minutes ago, Animewarsdude said:

Well if there is any hope maybe they'll get Dave Filoni to work on a sequel era animated series, say what we will of Clone Wars and Rebels (which can be bad at times, *shudders at helicopter sabers*) but he does have a sense for the world and tries to make it fun and give the fans stuff they want like Thrawn, or Republic Commandos, or etc, etc... Just look at how he and his team made the prequel characters have better depth than the films, maybe they can do the same down the line, I mean they have to have ended Rebels for more than just the animated star wars girl power shorts (I can't be bothered to go and look up the name of the show).

I'm hoping for that too.

I enjoy Rebels but I agree there's some things that are - clearly to remind us this is for children.

Like I say, I'm not a Sequel hater. I am one of the few who likes the ships. Not sure about the well endowed flying pizza slice yet, but I didn't like the Resurgent until better pictures appeared and I saw it on screen.

Over in The Force Awakens Beginner Game RPG I'm talking about running my own Journey to The Force Awakens using the 30th Anniversary Star Wars Roleplaying and creating stats for Sequel vehicles and ships. That's because I do believe there's still potential.

I'm really hoping for a "Resistance" series.

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3 hours ago, eMeM said:

Lucas could do this, it's not our fault that he is a genius and he set the bar so high Disney isn't even trying to jump over it.

Genius in the looking at a burger with lettuce poking out and an olive next to it and thinking "hey that looks like a space ship" sense of the word? (Allegedly the origin of the Millennium Falcon, FYI)

Because that is the exact same level of genius that children do have. Anything and everything can be a space ship at any time.

Or do you mean he's a genius in that he set the bar so incredibly high when he made the prequels and nailed the Star Wars, but not Star Wars, but definitely Star Wars look that we all demand?

 

 

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10 minutes ago, Sekac said:

Genius in the looking at a burger with lettuce poking out and an olive next to it and thinking "hey that looks like a space ship" sense of the word? (Allegedly the origin of the Millennium Falcon, FYI)

Because that is the exact same level of genius that children do have. Anything and everything can be a space ship at any time.

Or do you mean he's a genius in that he set the bar so incredibly high when he made the prequels and nailed the Star Wars, but not Star Wars, but definitely Star Wars look that we all demand?

That's a myth FYI.

And when you look at the MF you don't see any burgers, regardless of its origins.

But yes, prequels have the perfect new but still Star Wars look.

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4 hours ago, Archangelspiv said:

My take away from this is that Yoda is a pilot in BF 2. Will FFG bring a single ship to both factions, ie the ETA 2 with different pilots for the Rebels/Empire factions?

Obi Wan, Yoda and Anakin for Rebels
Anakin turned, Maul was in an ETA in the BF 2 trailer, and some other named bad guy for the Empire. 

Maybe this could be a thing, or I should get out of the chem room at work and get some fresh air...

Actually Maul in his ship, the Scimitar, a heavily modified Sienar Systems Star Courier. While it has a similar silhouette shape as an Eta 2, it is quite a bit bigger.

As for the rest of the conversation going on here, I have some beef. These ship styles have been established for a very long time in this universe. Why are you complaining now?! The Executor was just a huge Star Destroyer (Dreadnought, sorry), and even in The Old Republic and other early games big, triangular ships that are called, by class categorization, Star Destroyers, exist. Thus, someone figured that this was the best kind of ship at what it did.

So, coming to TFA onward, a war-torn galaxy would likely be trying to simply produce new ships quickly, and how does one do that? By building off of what you already know. Or going to a big, established shipyard (Kuat Drive Yards) and asking for an upgrade. Bam, they produce what you want on a modified chassis of a design that has been firmly established as a good ship. 

Stop asking for "new looks". Not going to happen, everything really should be similar to something else unless it has a completely different manufacturer, which I'm assuming is pretty unlikely at this point unless we get into the Unknown Regions or unfamiliar parts of the galaxy. Mass producers of tech and machinery would be very unlikely to discard solid previous designs to work out a new line of anything, especially in the midst of high-demand economy for their warships.

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5 minutes ago, Praetorate of the Empire said:

Stop asking for "new looks". Not going to happen

GUNBOAT! (Heh, you all thought this was going to end, didn't you? :P)

But seriously, I agree. Same thing happened with the plot of TFA. The prequels got bashed so hard, the company decided to go back to its roots, and TFA got bashed, too. It's not a fair assessment. I, personally, loved The Force Awakens. It took a couple of viewings to grow on me, but it's a great show that can be watched over and over. But I guess there's just no pleasing some people.

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3 minutes ago, Parakitor said:

GUNBOAT! (Heh, you all thought this was going to end, didn't you? :P)

But seriously, I agree. Same thing happened with the plot of TFA. The prequels got bashed so hard, the company decided to go back to its roots, and TFA got bashed, too. It's not a fair assessment. I, personally, loved The Force Awakens. It took a couple of viewings to grow on me, but it's a great show that can be watched over and over. But I guess there's just no pleasing some people.

I'm glad someone agrees. 

Now in terms of story, I do wish that there was some better work done for The Force Awakens, but at the same time, I'm glad that they moved in kind of slowly, I just wish it hadn't been a destroy the superweapon-story again. I'm just going to hold out for some better story in the next two movies.

I do like the cinematography of TFA, I feel it looks more Original Trilogy than Attack of the Clones or Revenge of the Sith. Still feels pretty Star Wars, in my opinion, and I expect that to be true in the next two movies, as well.

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28 minutes ago, eMeM said:

But yes, prequels have the perfect new but still Star Wars look.

I'm sorry, but no. One important bit of the look is "it looks like it works" - whoever came up with the astromech slots for the naboo N-1 and Attack of the Clones Jedi Fighter (both in-universe and out) should have been hit in the head with a draughtsman's board on the spot.

3 minutes ago, Parakitor said:

GUNBOAT!

But even then, it's recognisable. It's not a TIE fighter, but someone says to you "it's built by the same shipwright as the lambda" and you instantly go "...yeah, I can see that idea."

5 minutes ago, Parakitor said:

I, personally, loved The Force Awakens. It took a couple of viewings to grow on me, but it's a great show that can be watched over and over.

Most of it, I loved. The 'new old' look. A big part of The Force Awakens, compared to Rogue One, is that it doesn't 'assume' you've seen the original trilogy - it is meant for someone who's never seen Star Wars before to watch for the first time and ooo and aa. And yes, part of that is being able to say "that's an X wing and that's a TIE fighter", because that connects you to any future films and media you may encounter.

The bulk of the story was fine. I have issues with bits of Starkiller Base, and I wish the politics/republic scenes had been left in to set context better, but what we saw I liked. 

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I will only say this: if this is just an AT-AT in a new skin, then I will be dissapointed.  If it is a new AT-AT with some cool tricks other than artillery, then it will gain in popularity.  The front leg designs, for example, could be used in some cool way... I just have no idea how.  

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