Kieransi

Blue spoiler article!

62 posts in this topic

So, as that quote says, you can't just say "I'm resolving dice", you have to pick a symbol that you have some of (you have to actually resolve at least one die), but since Kanan is a "before" (replacement-type effect?) I can see why maybe he time-travels and breaks the rule. So yeah, that's maybe a case where he needs a rules reference clarification. 

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Posted (edited)

39 minutes ago, Kieransi said:

So, as that quote says, you can't just say "I'm resolving dice"

But thats not what the quote says...

 

It says that when the time comes to choose which dice to resolve i can't choose symbols i dont have.

My action is "resolve dice". As per page 13 of the rules ref.

Edited by Stu35

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Posted (edited)

Page 13 is just a list of actions. Page 14 is the detailed description.

"

  • RESOLVE DICE

    Each die side has a symbol on it (see page 9). A player may resolve one or more dice in their pool that have the same symbol, one at a time (unless adding a modi ed die, then the dice are resolved simultaneously). To resolve a die, a player must pay any costs and carry out the effect represented by the symbol on that die. Then they return it to the card that it came from.

  •  A player can only resolve dice in their own dice pool.

  • A player can resolve dice with different values during the same action, provided the dice share a symbol.

  • A player cannot choose to resolve dice symbols if they have no symbols of that type to resolve. A player must resolve at least one die when taking this action.

  • A player can resolve any dice with the same symbol, even if those dice were not showing that symbol when the player started resolving dice.

  • A player cannot resolve the same die more than once per action. 

"

From that, and the Kylo starter rules, I was under the impression that you had to call which kind of symbol you were going to resolve when choosing the action. Maybe that's just me though, I'm really not looking to argue rules here, just saying how I would currently call it.

It seems to make sense the way you explain it, and I don't see anything that flat out says what I thought was the case... I guess I just never really thought about it because there wasn't a reason for it to really matter yet. I will be interested to see what they have to say about it in the next rules reference!

Edited by Kieransi
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Considering previous rulings like 3P0 and Destiny, I'm almost positive that he'll be able to do whatever you want, even if it's not actually supported by any rules in the RRG.

Well, unless of course they just decide to 'lol FFG' and rule it the complete opposite.

 

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Posted (edited)

12 hours ago, Kieransi said:

I think that only works if you already had a dice in your pool with the same symbol that Kanan is focusing to:

(quote, RRG 14, page 14)

"

  • A player cannot choose to resolve dice symbols if they have no symbols of that type to resolve. A player must resolve at least one die when taking this action. 

"

But yeah, other than that, it should work. It's just that if, for example, Kanan has a dice showing focus and a dice showing a resource, you can't declare melee, focus the resource dice to a 2 damage, and then resolve. However, if Qui Gon (or whoever your other character is) also has melee in the pool, it is perfectly legal to focus the second Kanan dice, because you could declare melee, since you had melee dice in the pool. 

Basically as Stu said, and then comes the second part of that problem "A player must resolve at least one die when taking this action" the before ability resolves before the action so what if you have a resource side on Luke's die and a Focus on Kanans you declare "I am going to resolve a resource" but then you say I am going to use Kanan's Before ability to resolve a focus to change Luke's die to a 3 melee Now you cant resolve 1 die when taking this action and now you are trying to resolve a dice symbol when you have no dice of that symbol (specifically resource) this is kind of why I think it is intended that you can say "resolve die" without choosing the symbol then use Kanan's before ability then declare the symbol but at that point the symbol must be in your pool and you must resolve at least 1 die with that action it's still almost stricktly worse then Maz's ability to roll out focus and resolve only upside here is you can focus into a base side and resolve modifiers.

 

 

Essentially :  A player can resolve any dice with the same symbol, even if those dice were not showing that symbol when the player started resolving dice.

Edited by tunewalker

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Ok I'm confused by the wording on Kanan. "Before you take an action, you may resolve one of this die". I assume that means any die, not just character dice? 

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Just now, KotasMilitia said:

Ok I'm confused by the wording on Kanan. "Before you take an action, you may resolve one of this die". I assume that means any die, not just character dice? 

Pretty sure it's only his character dice.

I think its a bit of a joke that wording made it past the QC stage.

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Yep, I think you guys are right. Sometimes there's "house rules" that lead to misconceptions of what the actual rules are. So in this case, I'm so used to telling my opponent everything I'm doing, so as to avoid confusion and make sure they know I'm not cheating, that I guess I just figured it must be a rule that you have to do so. I guess I'll have to reconsider how I think about the "resolve dice" action.

That being said, I agree that Kanan's ability is still definitely worse than Maz or Rey, so unless FFG bans those two from competitive play or does a whole bunch of complicated errata, I doubt Kanan will see much play. Which is sad, because he's an awesome character!

And yeah, that wording is bonkers. I think they're just trying to make sure you know it's only one of his character die (similar to Palpatine's "after you resolve this die, force an opponent to deal two damage to their characters, distributed as they wish")

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Posted (edited)

Whether or not you have to "call" the symbol at the start of resolving you still are restricted to resolving only dice of the same symbol. So, for example. using a die symbol of focus to turn a die to Melee Damage and then resolving that Melee die is not kosher because you are resolving two symbols not one. 

Which brings us to our new friend Kanan:

Because of the way his ability is worded he can do things like the following:

SITUATION: Kanan has a 2 Melee, a Focus and on Force Speed a 1 Shield in the Pool

Because of Kanan's ability you can do the following:

a) BEFORE selecting your action, resolve the Focus side to turn Force Speed to it's special

b) As your Action you resolve Specials, starting with Force Speed. You now have two more actions. 

To me, this means that Kanan can indeed be useful. You almost have to use his elite version so you have the best shot at focus and also because his ability means you can focus one of the dice to match the other die then take action to resolve both. That is where having a diverse die is actually useful. 

Edited by Joelist

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Posted (edited)

8 hours ago, Jerrus said:

I agree that his ability is worse, but his dice are better

I dont agree with his dice being better, nor do I agree with his ability being worse. Kanan vs Maz are just 2 very different uses for a similar ability I think at this point. First Kanan has 2 more health which should be taken into consideration when comparing the 2, next Kanan and Maz actually share 4/6 sides (1 range, 1 focus, 1 resource and a blank) meaning that Kanan just trades Maz's shield side for a disrupt (I prefer the shield) and 1 of Maz's Focus sides with a 2 Melee side that second one to me is a bit even with maz's ability I prefer the extra focus but with kanans I like the 2 melee since it works with things like Gaurd and can activate modifiers. Finally their 2 abilities are used similarly just take what ever it is before the opponent can mess with it, with Maz this means we want to focus 1 die and resolve 1 die this is why Poe works so well with her he isnt trying to get out extra dice with modifier sides he just wants to resolve his 1 monster side. However Kanan's focus doesnt happen immidiately when he is rolled instead his dice help to activate modifiers, further where you CAN take resources with maz's die these resources dont dodge Disrupts where as Kanan can take a resource off his and immidiately play an even spending that resource. Ultimately the issue with Kanan is going to largely be unreliability no 2 sides on his dice show the same symbol he NEEDS the ability just so he doesnt bog down any deck you put him in. 


Edit: all moments when I think kanan's ability and dice are just as good if not better then Maz, if he rolls the 1 range he can resolve it along side all of the melee dice, If he rolls the melee you can use it to gaurd or you can possibly resolve it seperate while also rerolling your other dice or activating your other character so you dont leave unresolved damage sitting in your pool, if he rolls the focus you can focus into being able to resolve modified sides you couldnt before, if he rolls the disrupt and your opponent has a resource and you hit nothing on your other character, maybe you decide to take the disrupt and reroll at the same time so your opponent cant mess with what ever you roll, obviously just talked about the idea of taking a resource to play a card when you previously didnt have enough resources to do so, even if your opponent is showing a disrupt side. I still dont like him having to do to much work to justify him when Maz and Rey are so easy to figure out and take, and who knows how many times your going to have his ability showing JUST the right side for one of these scenarios.

 

Edit 2: was I the only one bothered by this "Blue characters have always been experts at dice manipulation, and Empire at War brings that theme to its extreme. At Peace  (Empire at War, 98) is an event that costs two-resources and turns all dice on the field with a blank side to that blank side, including your own. " My only thought really is "since when" maybe VILLAINS are good at this but the only way heroes do so is with Use the force (a neutral card) and focus sides which this card also blanks.

Edited by tunewalker
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