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Noosh

Dose Armada feel more like Patrol fleets?

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Ok here me out I like the game, but....

Dose it feel like the 400 point standard game feel like Patrol fleet going at it and not Armadas going at it? 

It is just the points? Do more points make it feel like it's a big time engagement? Or dose the game get bogged down when you double or triple the fleet size?

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21 minutes ago, Noosh said:

Ok here me out I like the game, but....

Dose it feel like the 400 point standard game feel like Patrol fleet going at it and not Armadas going at it? 

It is just the points? Do more points make it feel like it's a big time engagement? Or dose the game get bogged down when you double or triple the fleet size?

More points feels bigger, but it does really bog the game down and slow it to a crawl. Lots of squadrons or small ships don't help the problem, but ask anyone who has finished a Corellian Conflict All-Out Assault, it's not recommended to be an all day affair for nothing.

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It dose feel a little like patrol fleet at times the best example I can compare it to is the space battle at scarif that is about what armada is.  however the campaign for the game feels very thematic smaller battles that leads up to what truly feels like an armada battle with 6 players.

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We all know the practical reason why standard play is capped at 400pts but thematically it still works, at least for me, because it has the space to fit a proper taskforce(eg. ISD w/ Sqd compliment, plus a 3-4 support ships). It definitely feels bigger than a mere patrol force.

That said, although I've yet to try it, a 500pt limit does sound like it may be the sweet spot between playability and thematic feel.

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Posted (edited)

9 minutes ago, Battlefleet 01 Studios said:

I mean, the Empire had over 25,000 Star Destroyers. We should be able to fit more then 2 or 3 in a battle.

Well, nothing is stopping you from doing that in casual play. It's just that its not condusive for standard/competitive play.

Also judging from lore pitched battles involving entire fleets of more than a dozen large capital ships are uncommon. Most engagements only involve 1 or 2 taskforces.

Edited by Wraithdt

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I guess that what is a good point value for large engagements then? 4 or 5 capitol ships and escorts, maybe 800 to 1000 pts?

Also how may points is the battle of endor i wonder?  Scarrif, maybe not a the best choice seeing as it was an abush both ways! But these are rather i conic battles that im shure a local group would like to try their hand at. That is to say if armadas core can feasibly hanle that large number of ships let alone fighters.

I mean this all conjecture mostly for the non tourney guys out there. I am most certanly not advocatin a bump in points for tourneys @ 400 pts the game seem to run at a good pace from what i can tell.

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2 hours ago, xero989 said:

It dose feel a little like patrol fleet at times the best example I can compare it to is the space battle at scarif that is about what armada is.  however the campaign for the game feels very thematic smaller battles that leads up to what truly feels like an armada battle with 6 players.

Not just 'Scarif' - basically every battle we've seen on-screen (thanks notably to 'Rebels') except from Endor has been at a scale that works fine in 'Armada'.

It was not a true 'civil war' but more of an insurgency - so while the Empire may have had tens of thousands of ships, the Rebellion didn't.  They maybe only had several dozens, so had to pick their battles carefully, and any ship they lost hurt badly.  The net result is that the fights that actually would have happened in the war - right up until that 'final battle' - were all going to be roughly in scale with what we've got here.

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Before getting into competitive play and CC, my friend and I would play all kinds of crazy games, all the way to a 1500 single admirals game one time. 

The more individual pieces on the table makes the game take longer obviously, so don't try a 1200 point game and expect to get done in 4 hours, it won't happen.

A big problem we ran into prior to CC was playing a single massive fleet made fleet critical mass a problem. Basically, after a certain amount of points certain admirals and other upgrades become stupid broken. 

If you want to have a big, proper feeling battle with just one fleet, I recommend 600. It feels really big, but doesn't get so big that things get out of hand. Any more than that and you should split it into 2 fleets, allowing for more specialized play amongst each admiral. You can still control all the fleets on your side, just limiting upgrade overlap like CC AOO keeps things moving faster and more in balance.

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3 hours ago, Battlefleet 01 Studios said:

I mean, the Empire had over 25,000 Star Destroyers. We should be able to fit more then 2 or 3 in a battle.

25,000 SD's spread over a galaxy. it's not like it's next door to the nearest star. even with star war's crazy speeds i don't see more than 3 or 4 ISD's defending a world. 

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I am not even sure that it is up to the level of patrol fleets. If (like me) you think that each fighter base is three fighters then if you ignore the fighter limit and go with the three squadrons of TIE Fighters, two squadrons of TIE Interceptors, and one squadron of TIE Bombers and eight Lambda Shuttles you are over your limited by 60 points with out your commander or any upgrades, and this will leave you with only one ship. Numbers are based on listing from starwars wiki and just guessing on Fighter/Interceptor/Bomber make up.

Why I think that each base of fighters is a flight not a full squadron is two fold, first not all squadrons are the same number of craft, and second when the Falcon is facing off against four TIE Fighters (yes with out a full crew, but what is to say that the current card is full crewed?) they did take them out but there was worry in Han about if the Falcon would hold together. In this game I can see the Falcon taking on and winning against two or if lucky maybe three TIE fighter bases, but four should take it out with out. And nothing from the movies (I have not read the books), or the books from what my friends tell me would lead me to believe that the falcon can single handedly take out twelve TIE Fighters.

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Imperial_II-class_Star_Destroyer/Legends

 

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1 minute ago, CDAT said:

I am not even sure that it is up to the level of patrol fleets. If (like me) you think that each fighter base is three fighters then if you ignore the fighter limit and go with the three squadrons of TIE Fighters, two squadrons of TIE Interceptors, and one squadron of TIE Bombers and eight Lambda Shuttles you are over your limited by 60 points with out your commander or any upgrades, and this will leave you with only one ship. Numbers are based on listing from starwars wiki and just guessing on Fighter/Interceptor/Bomber make up.

Why I think that each base of fighters is a flight not a full squadron is two fold, first not all squadrons are the same number of craft, and second when the Falcon is facing off against four TIE Fighters (yes with out a full crew, but what is to say that the current card is full crewed?) they did take them out but there was worry in Han about if the Falcon would hold together. In this game I can see the Falcon taking on and winning against two or if lucky maybe three TIE fighter bases, but four should take it out with out. And nothing from the movies (I have not read the books), or the books from what my friends tell me would lead me to believe that the falcon can single handedly take out twelve TIE Fighters.

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Imperial_II-class_Star_Destroyer/Legends

 

each fighter base is a squadron(note the name) which means 10. 

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Just now, dominosfleet said:

each fighter base is a squadron(note the name) which means 10. 

aside from the 1 offs like the falcon or other single ship ones. 

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39 minutes ago, dominosfleet said:

25,000 SD's spread over a galaxy. it's not like it's next door to the nearest star. even with star war's crazy speeds i don't see more than 3 or 4 ISD's defending a world. 

And, in most cases, 1 ISD-I was used to secure a system. 

33 minutes ago, dominosfleet said:

each fighter base is a squadron(note the name) which means 10. 

Erm. . . 12. At least based on the X-Wing series. 12 fighters was a universal squadron there, both for the Empire and the Rebellion.

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Posted (edited)

35 minutes ago, dominosfleet said:

each fighter base is a squadron(note the name) which means 10. 

And we are playing a game called Armada where we are not even close to fielding an armada, so you have no point. Also if that is the standard then you can never field Luke, Wedge, and Rogue at the same time, as Luke and Wedge are part of Rogue, so I still think you have nothing to stand on, but one more reason that to me they feel like flights.

Edited by CDAT

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7 minutes ago, CDAT said:

And we are playing a game called Armada where we are not even close to fielding an armada, so you have no point. Also if that is the standard then you can never field Luke, Wedge, and Rogue at the same time, as Luke and Wedge are part of Rogue, so I still think you have nothing to stand on, but one more reason that to me they feel like flights.

Luke, Wedge, Biggs and Rogue squadron stands together make up 12 fighter minis. Together they make up Rogue Squadron!!! :)

 

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50 minutes ago, dominosfleet said:

25,000 SD's spread over a galaxy. it's not like it's next door to the nearest star. even with star war's crazy speeds i don't see more than 3 or 4 ISD's defending a world. 

Most I've seen on screen, in Rebels, was 4. Two or three are the most common numbers.

I know I'd like to get 7 ISDs, but I also know that would only ever be used in special mega battles. Either the end of a campaign, or a special scenario like Battle of Endor or Battle of Jakku.

The exception rather than the rule.

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Posted (edited)

19 minutes ago, CDAT said:

And we are playing a game called Armada where we are not even close to fielding an armada, so you have no point. Also if that is the standard then you can never field Luke, Wedge, and Rogue at the same time, as Luke and Wedge are part of Rogue, so I still think you have nothing to stand on, but one more reason that to me they feel like flights.

Meh, you could field them, it just thematically wouldn't make sense. Nor would it if it was 3 per base, as that would be 9, not 12. At the very least, you'd need 4 per base. Besides, Tycho's part of Rogue Squadron, but is placed in an A-Wing in-game, and Corran Horn also belongs there, and is in an E-Wing. So. . . 

It does mean that 134 points of Imperial squads, which can be made up of 16 TIE squads, becomes 192 squads, or 48 more than an SSD fields. Furthermore, if an ISD can technically deploy 6 squads (4 TIE/F, 1 TIE/I, 1 TIE/B), then why does it only push 4 stands, or 12 fighters (using your view), and thus be short 5 entire squads? It all comes down to subjectivity, I feel. The game has been balanced such that Rogue Squadron has been broken into 5 bases and 3 fighter types, ships can't push their full canon complement of fighters, etc. Therefore, how much is represented by the base is up for debate, as FFG couldn't care less (from what I gather).

Using the 12 fighters a stand theory, I'd say we could indeed get a decent Armada. After all, the word only means a fleet of warships, so 2 ISDs, 2 Gozantis, and the rest of the legal points in TIEs gets you an Armada. The game that really got gypped in it's name is Legion, as a Legion is roughly 10,000 soldiers in Star Wars (according to Legends). . .

I assume, however, that you mean 'a large and imposing fleet' by the word Armada. As for that, I think we can achieve that as well. If 1 ISD was enough to keep a system in line, and the Rebellion engaged 1 ISD-II with 2 stolen ISD-Is in order to be safe, the fleet of 3 ISD-Is that can be fielded in Armada, with, say, Ozzel and 6 TIE squads is a decently imposing Aramda - that's what most ISD groups consisted of, 3 ISDs and support. Sure, we can't field quite the whole force, being short 2 TIE/F, 2 TIE/I, and 2 TIE/B, (56 points), but still, 3 ISDs are imposing.

Edited by GhostofNobodyInParticular

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Posted (edited)

9 minutes ago, Muelmuel said:

Luke, Wedge, Biggs and Rogue squadron stands together make up 12 fighter minis. Together they make up Rogue Squadron!!! :)

 

You're missing Tycho. And Corran Horn.

Edited by GhostofNobodyInParticular
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4 minutes ago, Tommy Blunderbuss said:

Most I've seen on screen, in Rebels, was 4. Two or three are the most common numbers.

I know I'd like to get 7 ISDs, but I also know that would only ever be used in special mega battles. Either the end of a campaign, or a special scenario like Battle of Endor or Battle of Jakku.

The exception rather than the rule.

This exactly, though Endor had 26 ISDs. . .

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