CitizenKeen

Homebrewing Course Correct

30 posts in this topic

Courtesy of GenCon, we know a little more about Genesys, or at least a fantasy/Runebound version of Genesys.

Knowing what we know now, how have your homebrewing plans changed?

 

Personally, knowing that they left the Stats the same and the skills relatively untouched (though it seems like in fantasy Agility will be less of a super skill), I am now revisiting my desire to reboot the stats.

 

On a side note: Some people here have asked for a set of "strong guidelines" (or whatever) about customizing Genesys to your campaign, but honestly, I'd rather shell out another $30 for a "Hacking Genesys" book that goes really deep.

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GenCon hasn't affected my homebrewing at all.  ;)

I was a playtester for Genesys, so I've been more keyed in on what's coming for a while now. I can say that Genesys has greatly affected my Fallout hack of EotE. Much of it needed to be re-written, or at least tweaked to mesh better with the beta rules I had access to. I'm not sure how much will need to be updated once the final rules hit the public, but I'm guessing not much.

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One thing I've been playing around with in my head is dropping attribute and skill caps down a bit, to magnify the effects of setback and boost dice in relation to a modestly-smaller dice pool. One of the few structural issues I've had with SWRPG dice has long been how spectacularly underwhelming a few black dice for defense/shields are when stacked up against the barge full of five or six much stronger dice. In particular, things like capital ship energy shields and taking cover and such have always felt /way/ too weak to me. I've taken cover behind a rather large bit of wreckage, and as a result, if I'm very lucky, an enemy may do one point less damage to me.

I've let things get away from me somewhat here, but I think the message gets through more or less.

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6 minutes ago, White Haven said:

One thing I've been playing around with in my head is dropping attribute and skill caps down a bit, to magnify the effects of setback and boost dice in relation to a modestly-smaller dice pool. One of the few structural issues I've had with SWRPG dice has long been how spectacularly underwhelming a few black dice for defense/shields are when stacked up against the barge full of five or six much stronger dice. In particular, things like capital ship energy shields and taking cover and such have always felt /way/ too weak to me. I've taken cover behind a rather large bit of wreckage, and as a result, if I'm very lucky, an enemy may do one point less damage to me.

I've let things get away from me somewhat here, but I think the message gets through more or less.

My main complaint with EotE/Genesys is that the competence bands are incredibly narrow.

You've got a max range of four for any given Skill or Stat, which is really tiny. Making that narrow will only exacerbate the problem. Instead, maybe levels of cover, akin to D&D. Light (up to half): , Medium (up to 90%): ♦♦, Total (up to 99%): ♦♦♦

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6 attribute, 5 skill, actually. Also, that'd be a complete rework of cover, not a tuning, changing not only its scaling but the kind of dice it impacts.

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1 hour ago, White Haven said:

6 attribute, 5 skill, actually. Also, that'd be a complete rework of cover, not a tuning, changing not only its scaling but the kind of dice it impacts.

I meant to copy a square instead of a diamond, rather. But regardless, some sort of tiered cover would, I think, be a bit of an improvement.

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Posted (edited)

I don't disagree in theory, but unless you want to just bring /boatloads/ of black dice to the table or impose very severe stacking restrictions... Well, if you can get 2-3 black dice from cover, then another 2-3 from armor, and then a couple more from talents or weapon special qualities, that either leads to fistfulls of black dice OR unintended consequences from stacking restrictions (such as people in decent armor being mechanically taught that cover is only for people in street-clothes and the like).

Ultimately, if there were an easy, quick fine-tuning answer, it would have been done by now. This's a thorny question from a systems-design perspective, and I think in large part it stems from how weak black dice are in general.

Edited by White Haven
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Posted (edited)

I think stacking like that might help against really  high skill characters, but would screw the low skill.  Your face character with one rank in "shoot" wouldn't have a chance against some of your higher targets.  

I originally thought that having only 5 skill ranks would be  big negative, but it's actually ended up working out fine in ourEdge  game.  It just means I have more experience points to spend in other areas and make a more diverse character.

As far as homebrews.  I was originally starting to research fantasy hacks, but now am just in a holding pattern until Genesys comes out.  I'd really like to play some fantasy, but I can wait a few more months.

 

Edited by Split Light

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Cover already has two versions so adding a third isn't terrible.

Defence seems to have been given a cap of 4 which may need adjustment in your idea. Also what sets your base defence and what adds to it seems to have been modified slightly as well. Defence and Armour don't stack since both "Gain defence X" but defensive from weapons and shields do stack with either because they "gain +X to defence.

 Encouraging talents such as Dodge, Defensive Stance and Sidestep not to forget Bodyguard will also assist in your system 

Alternatively just double the number of hit points everyone has!

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14 hours ago, CitizenKeen said:

Personally, knowing that they left the Stats the same and the skills relatively untouched (though it seems like in fantasy Agility will be less of a super skill), I am now revisiting my desire to reboot the stats.

My plans haven't changed, though I'm doing the opposite of you and rebooting much of the skill list. The skills from the GenCon character sheets seem at least partially tied to the Runebound setting, and my skills are more based on my reading and research into medieval history.

  • Brawn: Athletics, Brawl, Resilience
  • Agility: Archery, Coordination, Stealth
  • Intellect: Learning, Ingenuity, Investigation
  • Cunning: Awareness, Mercantile, Skulduggery
  • Willpower: Coercion, Discipline, Vigilance
  • Presence: Animal Ken, Charm, Temper

Also, there are some skills I'm defining as "Prescribed" in the context of life path based character creation: ranks may only be purchased if your character has taken the requisite life path. Not all knowledge and experience in a medieval (even fantasy) world is necessarily open to everyone. Examples:

  • Courtesy (PR) - courtly manners, need a life path at a noble's court
  • Martial (BR/AG) - formal training both in general combat and with particular weapons; BR/AG on a per weapon basis
  • Siegecraft (IN) - need a life path in the military or as some sort of engineer/builder
  • Survival (IN) - knowledge of the natural world, needs a life path in a wilderness setting
  • Tracking (CU) - following a quarry, animal or otherwise, needs a life path that would involve hunting
  • Trade: {Career} (??) - group of skills, each for a medieval trade, need a life path learning that trade
  • Knowledge: {Field} (IN) - group of skills, each for a field of knowledge, need a life path where the knowledge was accessible

Those parts of my home brewing---life paths and prescribed skills---have not changed because, as I expected, the Genesys core book probably won't be providing any of it. On the other hand, I'm now leaning strongly toward making magic cost strain rather than a separate magic threshold (e.g. Magicka in the Elder Scrolls) to simplify things and make it easier to balance and interoperate with the core book. So that has changed my design thinking about magic, at least right now.

14 hours ago, CitizenKeen said:

On a side note: Some people here have asked for a set of "strong guidelines" (or whatever) about customizing Genesys to your campaign, but honestly, I'd rather shell out another $30 for a "Hacking Genesys" book that goes really deep.

I think strong guidelines may be useful, once we know what's actually in the book. There are definitely some design patterns I've noticed in SWRPG in terms of improvising a mechanic on the spot. It is helpful to be aware of those patterns. I've also noticed anti-patterns that make things much worse, mostly brought in from other RPGs with which players and game masters have experience. Pointing out those would be helpful also. I also agree that such materials are better in a supplement. The whole point of a core book is that it's the first thing people buy, and then everything else you buy can be both leaner in pages and more affordable.

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The only homebrew I'm going to be worried about initially is Blue Planet, the second edition of which was published by FFG a long time ago.

After that, who knows, maybe a homebrew of the Palladium stuff.

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15 hours ago, Blackbird888 said:

Not really. I've been reassured, but I'm not going to start any projects until the book is in my hands.

Same.

I want to see some scenarios with the Genesys system, like Shadowrun, Legend of the Five Rings, Dungeons ¨& Dragons, Cyberpunk 20xx... my little brother wants to play Jurassic World with Genesys. I guess it'd be all easily to convert.

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1 hour ago, Bellyon said:

Same.

I want to see some scenarios with the Genesys system, like Shadowrun, Legend of the Five Rings, Dungeons ¨& Dragons, Cyberpunk 20xx... my little brother wants to play Jurassic World with Genesys. I guess it'd be all easily to convert.

My son wants to play Power Rangers and Jurassic World as well. I'm curious how they manage to do vehicles/mechs/zords.

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1 hour ago, DarthDude said:

My son wants to play Power Rangers and Jurassic World as well. I'm curious how they manage to do vehicles/mechs/zords.

I don't have any suggestions, other to say congrats on having such an awesome life.

I'm also curious as I want to do a Starship Troopers campaign (power suits version) and also an Armored Core game.

Now with Armored Core, the real question is how Genesys will manage crushing existential loneliness.

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Posted (edited)

3 hours ago, DarthDude said:

My son wants to play Power Rangers and Jurassic World as well. I'm curious how they manage to do vehicles/mechs/zords.

Well, in SW they already do - imo - a decent job with vehicles. Mechs and zords should use the same rules as vehicles has. Maybe you need a specific skill to pilot these things, but not hard to resolve. Just create them as vehicles, limit the number of tripulation (something between 1 to 5 usually), think about the size, etc. The cool thing is create more customization to them, cause a mech/zord are a hybrid between a vehicle and a war machine/warrior.

Edited by Bellyon
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10 hours ago, Bellyon said:

Same.

I want to see some scenarios with the Genesys system, like Shadowrun, Legend of the Five Rings, Dungeons ¨& Dragons, Cyberpunk 20xx... my little brother wants to play Jurassic World with Genesys. I guess it'd be all easily to convert.

I've always thought it would be cool to have combined a Jurassic Park Tycoon style game with a survival game. Let the players design the park and then have to survive when it all goes wrong.

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Posted (edited)

5 hours ago, Bellyon said:

Well, in SW they already do - imo - a decent job with vehicles. Mechs and zords should use the same rules as vehicles has. Maybe you need a specific skill to pilot these things, but not hard to resolve. Just create them as vehicles, limit the number of tripulation (something between 1 to 5 usually), think about the size, etc. The cool thing is create more customization to them, cause a mech/zord are a hybrid between a vehicle and a war machine/warrior.

Of course, this would then all be just a hop, or skip away from .... Voltron! And Robotech now that I think of it.

Edited by Rrok007
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41 minutes ago, Rrok007 said:

Of course, this would then all be just a hop, or skip away from .... Voltron! And Robotech now that I think of it.

Someone mentioned they wanted to do a Robotech Genesys game. I don't recall who...

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Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, DarthGM said:

Someone mentioned they wanted to do a Robotech Genesys game. I don't recall who...

Lynn Minmay's player: I would like to use the power Over-worry, Whine, and Bellow to great effect.

GM: Roll (grabs several hand full's of dice) these.

Lynn Minmay's player: okay, I got 4 successes and that black die from "no one cares, Lynn" power that Rick has knocked me down to 2 advantage.

GM: everyone take 5 strain for Lynn's whining. Rick, you take 6 strain, sorry bud, she's your problem.

 

I wasn't the one, but it still sounds like a good idea.

Edited by Hexnwolf
Formatting
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The more I think about Runebound's two Melee skills and one Ranged skill, and the implication that a given genre has different weapon skills, the more I think about different weapon skills having different Attributes. Thinking through...

  • Melee (Light) - Agility
  • Melee (Heavy) - Brawn
  • Ranged (Light) - Agility
  • Ranged (Heavy) - Cunning

Or some such.

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On 25/08/2017 at 6:21 PM, CitizenKeen said:

The more I think about Runebound's two Melee skills and one Ranged skill, and the implication that a given genre has different weapon skills, the more I think about different weapon skills having different Attributes. Thinking through...

  • Melee (Light) - Agility
  • Melee (Heavy) - Brawn
  • Ranged (Light) - Agility
  • Ranged (Heavy) - Cunning

Or some such.

I like that. Might even house-rule it in my future campaigns and project.

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Posted (edited)

Actually knowing a couple of HEMA practitioners personally, those weapons called "heavy weapons" (polearms, halberts, twohanders) are actually not weighing that much as you might think and are quite nimble (speaking of melee weapons). Those heavy weapons still need the agility to wield them dead on target if you don't rely on chopping blindly. 

While warbows which are relatively leight weighted need a lot of brawn. Not speaking of those hunting bows with less penetration, talking of actual warbows used in battlefield situations.

I'd keep agility as the main attribute weapons but apply a minimum brawn prerequisite needed to operate the weapons without malus or being able to operate it at all. 

You might offer the choise, wielding "heavier" weapons with either agility or brawn.

Edited by DarthDude

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