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Rune Taq

Imperial assault and Legion? What's the difference?

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In all seriousness what are the big key differences to these two games. I never was very interested in IA. Are these two games comparable to Xwing and Armada, respectively, in scale and gameplay scope? Armada is my game. If Legion is big army battles as Armada is big fleet battles, I may be interested. 

So what makes Legion different from IA, and for the record I've never played IA so forgive me for my ignorance. I really have no clue.

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Just now, Rune Taq said:

Are these two games comparable to Xwing and Armada, respectively, in scale and gameplay scope?

Ummm sorta?

Legion is a Skirmish game with 20-40 models per side on a 3x6 table.  It will play somewhat similar to Armada.  Only with squads of 4-6 troops rather than individual ships. 

Just now, Rune Taq said:

 If Legion is big army battles as Armada is big fleet battles, I may be interested. 

It's going to be closer to platoon size engagements, but it would scale up so you could in theory do something company sized, say 90+ models per side, but that would be about as large as you're going to get.  It's not a 15 or 6mm scale game where a single stand is a whole squad.

If you're looking for a game where you can have a couple maybe even 6+ AT-AT's with hordes of troops, then Legion may not be the game for you.

Just now, Rune Taq said:

So what makes Legion different from IA, and for the record I've never played IA so forgive me for my ignorance. I really have no clue.

IA is more of a board game and played on preset map with a grid square, it also has maybe 8-12 models per side.  Legion is played on a table with 3d terrain and has more models per side.  IA also has a campaign game where you have 3-5 players vs the Imperial player going through preset missions.

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Ok thank you that helps. I may hold out for a larger scope game if it comes along but this may be a fun game to get into.  

So in game play this may be closer to Xwing with moderately sized squad battles, if I'm understanding you correctly.

Edited by Rune Taq

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IA has a more narrative component due to the campaign (the main and very fun mode) also you have skirmish in wich you build a list of 40 points (vader is 13 and a regular trooper group around 6-9 and incluides 2 or 3 figures) then you might to built a command card deck (15 cards and 15 points) this cards shakes the normal game and let your troops to do special things like surprise attack, heal others or force lighting a squad. All the missions (campaign and skirmish) are preset grillet tiles map. In canpaign the 4 rebel players cooperate against the empire player to do some objetives in order to win the mission and then earn credits and xp to level up. In skirmish you might to gain 40 vp to win. Points are earned killing enemy troops and doing concrete objetives.

On the other hand, legion is all about battles and you don't have restrictions building your army. You can play 800 or 1000 or more points per side. The strategy and positioning component is higher than IA. Troops kill each other more quickly. All game has variants depends on objetives, deploy and special effects (like fog). During 6 rounds you might to gain more points than your enemy and is so important the leader poaitioning and the orders/initiative timing.

 

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4 minutes ago, Rune Taq said:

So in game play this may be closer to Xwing with moderately sized squad battles, if I'm understanding you correctly.

If you mean in terms of battles?  Sure that's going to be close.  This isn't a game about mass battles but rather an engagement with a couple platoons fighting over a given objective.  So just one part of one battle, if that makes sense.

If you know Flames of War vs Bolt Action this game is on the same scale as Bolt Action.  Flames of War is a whole company with support units and maybe a take squad, where Bolt Action is a single platoon with a little support and maybe a single tank.

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33 minutes ago, Rune Taq said:

In all seriousness what are the big key differences to these two games. I never was very interested in IA. Are these two games comparable to Xwing and Armada, respectively, in scale and gameplay scope? Armada is my game. If Legion is big army battles as Armada is big fleet battles, I may be interested. 

So what makes Legion different from IA, and for the record I've never played IA so forgive me for my ignorance. I really have no clue.

Legion will be bigger battles. I think it will be similar to Armada in respect to X-Wing. X-Wing is dog fights, Armada is the fleet. IA is the squad, Legion is the army. If what people are saying is true, then you can easily have 6 squads of 4 troops for about 1/4 of your army points. And then you need a commander and armor and support and upgrades. So it will be much larger, dynamic battles. 

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Imperial Assault: Story driven campaign that is set in a specific era in the Star Wars universe using pre made models on a multiple changing tiled board game using campaign for the map design.

Legion: 6x3 game table with customised scenery as seen fit by the players, no story driven narrative. 

Think of it as taking Skirmish mode from Imperial Assault and taking away the small size restriction and opening the world by 100 times the size.

Legion will cater for those that want to feel more like a commander and with an equal balance unlike Imperial Assault.

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Well comparing IA skirmish with Legion:

They are both objective based, though you score points for killing units in IA.

They both use very similar miniatures that have a point base system per unit.

They both use cards and upgrade cards for units.

They both measure distance for attack.

They both have 2 actions per unit, with movement being an action and the only action that can be done twice. All units have a set movement speed.

They both have special actions and can attack for an action.

They both use different colored dice for attacks and different colored dice for defense.

They both use pierce for busting through defense.

They both take turns with unit activations.

So the only real difference, besides some subtle differences in dice and cover, is the map. IA has preconstructed  maps with a grid and Legion has a free form map with random terrain. Legion is also played on a much bigger map and has more units and a longer game time.

You have to have more space for Legion. You really need a game store which offers terrain to play with or have your own terrain, which really complicates the game, unless you just go bare bones.

IA is a quicker set up, much more accessible and gives a similar game experience with miniatures battling it out. The real difference is the grid, so it is more chess like, and the smaller map and fewer units.

So they basically took IA skirmish, removed the grid, added more space and units, took a few things from Runewars and called it a day.

Edited by Mep

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We don't know enough about Legion yet to compare or contrast it perfectly, but it definitely appears that Legion will operate at a larger scale than IA.  There will also be much more freedom insofar as movement is concerned with the removal of grid-based movement.  Will this game end up having hundreds of troops on both sides with massive vehicles?  It's not likely.  It seems to me that a comparison to Warmachine/Hordes is closest based on what we have seen so far.  A leader, a few squads, and some support from armor/vehicles.

The squad vs platoon comparison seems pretty apt.  IA operates on a smaller scale because it was adapted from a rules set originally designed for a dungeon crawl board game.

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2 minutes ago, Andreievitch said:

Will the minis be the same size?  I am wondering if I can use minis from both for the EotE RPG as well, or will they be different sizes?

 

there is till a lot of debate, legion is slightly larger, but we still don't know how much or if it will break things.

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In simple terms:

Imperial Assault is a board game that is a 1 v 4 asymmetrical 'dungeon crawl' just like Descent.

Legion is a full on table top miniatures squad based wargame akin to 40K or Warmachine/Hordes.

Some more details of note:

Imperial Assault is very dissimilar to Legion other than being a Star Wars game. In Legion the game is a tactical miniatures game. IA is a board game that uses minis. IA also having the skirmish mode is secondary to the games purpose. It could totally not exist and the main purpose for the game's existence is not harmed in any way. Due to the nature of the game the balance for skirmish has become very degenerative in that the 'competitive' lists are just a silly spam of the most powerful figure. It reminds me of the days of Magic The Gathering with 40 card decks before there was a 4 copy limit.

Legion is a true head to head minis game that meant to be played 1 v 1. In fact that it is whole purpose, not just a poorly thought out addition the games main thrust.

I suspect the reason that skirmish exists for IA is because they either A. did not have Legion planned at the time, or B. wanted to test the waters for interest in a competitive Star Wars based game that didn't involve the ships (at least not as the main force).

Both games have their place, and IA is great at what it is meant to do (being a 1 v 4 asymmetrical board game).

Personally I love both and will play both as they are entirely different games that serve very different experiences.

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On 8/22/2017 at 10:20 AM, VirMortalis said:

 

Legion: 6x3 game table with customised scenery as seen fit by the players, no story driven narrative. 

 

That we are aware of at this time.

Story driven narratives are 100% possible with wargames as you play out missions that cover a major battle or campaign.

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9 hours ago, Krashwire said:

Legion is a true head to head minis game that meant to be played 1 v 1. In fact that it is whole purpose, not just a poorly thought out addition the games main thrust.

I suspect the reason that skirmish exists for IA is because they either A. did not have Legion planned at the time, or B. wanted to test the waters for interest in a competitive Star Wars based game that didn't involve the ships (at least not as the main force).

Both games have their place, and IA is great at what it is meant to do (being a 1 v 4 asymmetrical board game).

Personally I love both and will play both as they are entirely different games that serve very different experiences.

Check out the New Orders podcast, they had a recent interview with Jonathon Ying, one of the original designers, he talks about the genesis of the Skirmish mode. It’s well worth a listen, especially hearing the origin of Vinto Hreeda! But in short, they used Skirmish style match ups to quickly calibrate points values for different figures, then realised it was also a fun way of playing and decided to include it. Losing the special tricks and hidden info from the campaign scenarios led them to develop the command card concept. So, yes, it was an afterthought, but I don’t think it was as potentially cynical as you might suspect.

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