Snipafist

Cannot Get Your Ship Out 8/21 through 8/31

67 posts in this topic

http://cannotgetyourshipout.blogspot.com/2017/08/821-updates.html

More updating of earlier articles. ISD article got more sprucing up than most due to Sloane and Boarding Troopers having a good time with Avenger.

This will be the thread for the rest of the updates through August. After that I'm thinking we'll move to a monthly thread like Steel Squadron. We've got a lot of bookkeeping and editing to do, which means the pace will be a bit slower/less immediately impressive and therefore one thread per month should do just fine. In terms of new stuff, I'm hoping to have a Quasar article out by the end of the week.

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1 hour ago, Snipafist said:

http://cannotgetyourshipout.blogspot.com/2017/08/821-updates.html

More updating of earlier articles. ISD article got more sprucing up than most due to Sloane and Boarding Troopers having a good time with Avenger.

This will be the thread for the rest of the updates through August. After that I'm thinking we'll move to a monthly thread like Steel Squadron. We've got a lot of bookkeeping and editing to do, which means the pace will be a bit slower/less immediately impressive and therefore one thread per month should do just fine. In terms of new stuff, I'm hoping to have a Quasar article out by the end of the week.

I'm looking forward to the Quasar article. All my work with it to date is as a supercarrier loaded out for space superiority, where it's great, but it's with the understanding that the ship almost always dies.

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27 minutes ago, GiledPallaeon said:

I'm looking forward to the Quasar article. All my work with it to date is as a supercarrier loaded out for space superiority, where it's great, but it's with the understanding that the ship almost always dies.

How fast are you running it (speed wise)? What's your normal loadout, if you don't mind me asking?

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3 hours ago, Snipafist said:

http://cannotgetyourshipout.blogspot.com/2017/08/821-updates.html

More updating of earlier articles. ISD article got more sprucing up than most due to Sloane and Boarding Troopers having a good time with Avenger.

This will be the thread for the rest of the updates through August. After that I'm thinking we'll move to a monthly thread like Steel Squadron. We've got a lot of bookkeeping and editing to do, which means the pace will be a bit slower/less immediately impressive and therefore one thread per month should do just fine. In terms of new stuff, I'm hoping to have a Quasar article out by the end of the week.

With a "Boarding Party" ISD-I, you'd probably not just recommend Leading Shots, but require it! :)

LS also combines well with this ship and the Quad Battery Turret - IF you are planning on going slow. 

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8 hours ago, Green Knight said:

With a "Boarding Party" ISD-I, you'd probably not just recommend Leading Shots, but require it! :)

LS also combines well with this ship and the Quad Battery Turret - IF you are planning on going slow. 

In general I don't plan on going speed 1 enough with an ISD-I to justify the QBTs. I could maybe see the argument for an ISD-II, but it's a bit of a hard sell for me with ISDs. On VSDs, it's an entirely different matter.

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11 hours ago, geek19 said:

How fast are you running it (speed wise)? What's your normal loadout, if you don't mind me asking?

Usually speed 2 circling the battlefield. I only have one successful list so far involving one, so I'll add it in here. Normal loadout is a QF1 with Expanded Hangar Bays, Boosted Comms, Flight Controllers, and Pursuant. Its job is exclusively herding the Defenders and whatever else I need on that strike. Sometimes that's Jendon and/or Dengar, sometimes it's the Interceptors racing out to cause trouble (though I often shuffle them off on the Gozanti). I want to add Yularen to it to regenerate the squad token and free up that list's Comms Net to help the ISD, but he's so expensive.

Third Date with Sloane     
Author: GiledPallaeon

Faction: Galactic Empire    
Points: 399/400      
Commander: Admiral Sloane

Assault Objective: Most Wanted    
Defense Objective: Contested Outpost    
Navigation Objective: Superior Positions    
[ flagship ] Imperial II-Class Star Destroyer (120 points)
-  Admiral Sloane     ( 24     points) 
-  Relentless     ( 3     points) 
-  Skilled First Officer     ( 1     points) 
-  Gunnery Team     ( 7     points) 
-  Electronic Countermeasures     ( 7     points) 
-  X17 Turbolasers     ( 6     points) 
-  Leading Shots     ( 4     points) 
= 172 total ship cost
Quasar Fire I-class Cruiser-Carrier (54 points)
-  Pursuant     ( 2     points) 
-  Flight Controllers     ( 6     points) 
-  Expanded Hangar Bay     ( 5     points) 
-  Boosted Comms     ( 4     points) 
= 71 total ship cost
Gozanti-class Cruisers (23 points)
-  Comms Net     ( 2     points) 
= 25 total ship cost
1    Dengar ( 20 points) 
1    Colonel Jendon ( 20 points) 
1    Maarek Steele ( 21 points) 
3    TIE Defender Squadrons ( 48 points) 
2    TIE Interceptor Squadrons ( 22 points) 

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43 minutes ago, GiledPallaeon said:

Usually speed 2 circling the battlefield. I only have one successful list so far involving one, so I'll add it in here. Normal loadout is a QF1 with Expanded Hangar Bays, Boosted Comms, Flight Controllers, and Pursuant. Its job is exclusively herding the Defenders and whatever else I need on that strike. Sometimes that's Jendon and/or Dengar, sometimes it's the Interceptors racing out to cause trouble (though I often shuffle them off on the Gozanti). I want to add Yularen to it to regenerate the squad token and free up that list's Comms Net to help the ISD, but he's so expensive.

Third Date with Sloane     
Author: GiledPallaeon

Faction: Galactic Empire    
Points: 399/400      
Commander: Admiral Sloane

Assault Objective: Most Wanted    
Defense Objective: Contested Outpost    
Navigation Objective: Superior Positions    
[ flagship ] Imperial II-Class Star Destroyer (120 points)
-  Admiral Sloane     ( 24     points) 
-  Relentless     ( 3     points) 
-  Skilled First Officer     ( 1     points) 
-  Gunnery Team     ( 7     points) 
-  Electronic Countermeasures     ( 7     points) 
-  X17 Turbolasers     ( 6     points) 
-  Leading Shots     ( 4     points) 
= 172 total ship cost
Quasar Fire I-class Cruiser-Carrier (54 points)
-  Pursuant     ( 2     points) 
-  Flight Controllers     ( 6     points) 
-  Expanded Hangar Bay     ( 5     points) 
-  Boosted Comms     ( 4     points) 
= 71 total ship cost
Gozanti-class Cruisers (23 points)
-  Comms Net     ( 2     points) 
= 25 total ship cost
1    Dengar ( 20 points) 
1    Colonel Jendon ( 20 points) 
1    Maarek Steele ( 21 points) 
3    TIE Defender Squadrons ( 48 points) 
2    TIE Interceptor Squadrons ( 22 points) 

I say this with very little experience running against them, but how often are you needing the boosted comms with them? Like, if you're going speed 2, you're obviously getting the jump on your opponent with the Defenders and Interceptors. But when you follow them in, are you needing the full range of boosted comms or not really? My theory as to why it's dying is that you're likely pushing it forward and the ISD, while still a target, isn't as close for your opponent to either divide their fire at or it's easier to dogpile on with everything if it's up too far. Just my guess of course, having not seen any of your games. And with 3 ships only, I'm going to focus on the one in front with little defense tokens pushing squads that I need not pushed, of course.

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Just now, geek19 said:

I say this with very little experience running against them, but how often are you needing the boosted comms with them? Like, if you're going speed 2, you're obviously getting the jump on your opponent with the Defenders and Interceptors. But when you follow them in, are you needing the full range of boosted comms or not really? My theory as to why it's dying is that you're likely pushing it forward and the ISD, while still a target, isn't as close for your opponent to either divide their fire at or it's easier to dogpile on with everything if it's up too far. Just my guess of course, having not seen any of your games. And with 3 ships only, I'm going to focus on the one in front with little defense tokens pushing squads that I need not pushed, of course.

It's helped a fair bit. Most of the time, the deployment is such that the Quasar is in the lee of the Star Destroyer, so what BC really buys me is freedom to maneuver, both for the Defenders and the carrier. If push comes to shove, I also have Jendon to get a little extra, but only a little. Most of the deaths are to high-speed attackers I can't block, like MC30s that roar in at speed 3 or 4. Usually what I gun for there is using the Defenders to clean off that MC30 so Relentless can finish the job with a single salvo. It usually doesn't save the Quasar, but it's avenged it on almost every occasion. If you're interested, that is very similar to the fleet that is in the Vassal Autumn tournament, so I will try to focus on that particular aspect and see what happens.

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Posted (edited)

2 hours ago, GiledPallaeon said:

Imperial II-Class Star Destroyer (120 points)
-  Admiral Sloane     ( 24     points)
Quasar Fire I-class Cruiser-Carrier (54 points)
Gozanti-class Cruisers (23 points)

 

I'm running a nearly-identical ship build (not squadron, I hate your squadrons :) ) in the Vassal tourney, but did not bring BC.  Had my first game with it this weekend, and I can definitely say I won't run it without BC again. 

My initial game plan for the list, and reasoning behind leaving BC out, was to use the QF for the initial squadron push and then run off with it, using the ISD to give ongoing squadron commands as necessary.  What I found instead was that I really needed to keep the QF engaged and pushing squadrons to give the ISD the freedom to nav or do other things as necessary, but didn't have the reach or space to keep it in activation range.

 

4 hours ago, Snipafist said:

In general I don't plan on going speed 1 enough with an ISD-I to justify the QBTs. I could maybe see the argument for an ISD-II, but it's a bit of a hard sell for me with ISDs. On VSDs, it's an entirely different matter.

I am loving QBT on my Sloane ISD2 Avenger.  LS, GT, QBT, and fast squadrons means I'm presenting a very significant threat to smaller ships even at long range.

I'm not sure that you can extrapolate that to "QBTs are good on ISD2's", but there is definitely a place for them in certain builds.

Edited by Ardaedhel

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5 minutes ago, Ardaedhel said:

I'm running a nearly-identical ship build (not squadron, I hate your squadrons :) ) in the Vassal tourney, but did not bring BC.  Had my first game with it this weekend, and I can definitely say I won't run it without BC again. 

My initial game plan for the list, and reasoning behind leaving BC out, was to use the QF for the initial squadron push and then run off with it, using the ISD to give ongoing squadron commands as necessary.  What I found instead was that I really needed to keep the QF engaged and pushing squadrons to give the ISD the freedom to nav or do other things as necessary, but didn't have the reach or space to keep it in activation range.

I am loving QBT on my Sloane ISD2 Avenger.  LS, GT, QBT, and fast squadrons means I'm presenting a very significant threat to smaller ships even at long range.

I'm not sure that you can extrapolate that to "QBTs are good on ISD2's", but there is definitely a place for them in certain builds.

To each their own. As I've said many times, my answer to almost any Imperial squadron problem is MOAH DEFENDERS!!1!

That's one of the advantages Relentless plus SFO gives me, she is flexible enough that she can take over commanding the Defenders (since them plus Jendon is usually what is left) after Pursuant bites the dust. By then the squad battle is usually functionally over, and they are just softening up targets for Relentless, which requires much less control range. For those first two-ish turns of combat however, the additional power of the Defenders to roam and kill, whether squads or ships, that BC gives you I just find to be unparalled in tactical use.

I haven't tried QBTs on I-2s yet, but initial experiments on I-1s (Leading Shots in all arcs at all ranges is great) show that they do have a mindset requirement that takes adjusting. Since I-1s like to roar in at high speed, usually there's a bit of a mismatch there; I'll have to see if using an I-2 solves the problem.

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3 minutes ago, GiledPallaeon said:

I haven't tried QBTs on I-2s yet, but initial experiments on I-1s (Leading Shots in all arcs at all ranges is great) show that they do have a mindset requirement that takes adjusting. Since I-1s like to roar in at high speed, usually there's a bit of a mismatch there; I'll have to see if using an I-2 solves the problem.

Yeah, I don't think I'd go for it on a 1 because you would really rather be burning to get into close, but on a 2 where you're more comfortable at long and medium, it's definitely a contender.

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48 minutes ago, Ardaedhel said:

I am loving QBT on my Sloane ISD2 Avenger.  LS, GT, QBT, and fast squadrons means I'm presenting a very significant threat to smaller ships even at long range.

I'm not sure that you can extrapolate that to "QBTs are good on ISD2's", but there is definitely a place for them in certain builds.

What speed are you normally running your ISD-II? I get concerned about speed 2 being fairly common, although 3 and (sometimes) 4 aren't unheard of for enemy ships. 1 is a pretty safe bet for a VSD, I just get concerned about 2.

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3 minutes ago, Snipafist said:

What speed are you normally running your ISD-II? I get concerned about speed 2 being fairly common, although 3 and (sometimes) 4 aren't unheard of for enemy ships. 1 is a pretty safe bet for a VSD, I just get concerned about 2.

For me, it's not just the die but the control I get. Either I get that long range blue on your CR90/MC30/annoying fast ship, or you go slow enough it's a lot easier for me to hold you in my arc.

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4 minutes ago, GiledPallaeon said:

For me, it's not just the die but the control I get. Either I get that long range blue on your CR90/MC30/annoying fast ship, or you go slow enough it's a lot easier for me to hold you in my arc.

That's a fair point and made concisely. I'll need to give that some thought on my ISD-IIs from here on out...

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1 minute ago, Snipafist said:

That's a fair point and made concisely. I'll need to give that some thought on my ISD-IIs from here on out...

It pairs well with JJ for extra insurance that they're still right where you want them (both with QBT and generally)

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39 minutes ago, Snipafist said:

What speed are you normally running your ISD-II? I get concerned about speed 2 being fairly common, although 3 and (sometimes) 4 aren't unheard of for enemy ships. 1 is a pretty safe bet for a VSD, I just get concerned about 2.

 

34 minutes ago, GiledPallaeon said:

For me, it's not just the die but the control I get. Either I get that long range blue on your CR90/MC30/annoying fast ship, or you go slow enough it's a lot easier for me to hold you in my arc.

This, exactly.  I'll generally just slow-roll the ISD2 once I get into long or the edge of long, and sit on a nav token.  The psychological impact of that one added blue at long range is not to be underestimated, too.

And I haven't gotten there yet, but I really want to try it with the Grand Inquisitor too.  I think that's gonna be a real thing.

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33 minutes ago, GiledPallaeon said:

It pairs well with JJ for extra insurance that they're still right where you want them (both with QBT and generally)

It also works well with Sloane/Avenger.  Push an ISD-full of squadrons at your target at long range to exhaust evades, scatters, or whatever as applicable, then throw 4 rerollable reds.  You won't be one-shotting most things with it, but you're definitely going to be punching hard in a wide area.

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On 8/22/2017 at 3:05 PM, Ardaedhel said:

And I haven't gotten there yet, but I really want to try it with the Grand Inquisitor too.  I think that's gonna be a real thing.

Gave it a shot tonight - an ISD-II with QBTs, Gunnery Team, Leading Shots, and Grand Inquisitor. Can confirm it was surprisingly legit. I'll definitely be running it again.

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44 minutes ago, GiledPallaeon said:

Let me know when you're on Vassal and we can start working through all the new changes :)

I'm afraid you may be waiting a while, unfortunately. I like Vassal for setting up example pictures, but in terms of actually playing I'm not so keen on it. :(

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Just now, Snipafist said:

I'm afraid you may be waiting a while, unfortunately. I like Vassal for setting up example pictures, but in terms of actually playing I'm not so keen on it. :(

Your loss. I'm probably going to write up a comparison of the Kuat and the Cymoon shortly. I can put it here for you if you want to peruse it.

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I'll also add that with the actual ship cards, there's nothing really stopping Imperial commanders from trying the new ISD variants in casual games with their opponent's permission. You may find Rebel opponents are a little salty that they can't do the same with their MC75s, but then again they've always had the one-ship lead on us, so I'm not too generous with my sympathy there.

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19 minutes ago, Snipafist said:

I'll also add that with the actual ship cards, there's nothing really stopping Imperial commanders from trying the new ISD variants in casual games with their opponent's permission. You may find Rebel opponents are a little salty that they can't do the same with their MC75s, but then again they've always had the one-ship lead on us, so I'm not too generous with my sympathy there.

Coming to Vassal over the weekend.

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