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Dave Grant

Imp Aces....

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I love X-Wing... I enjoy flying Imperial Aces the most. I am aware re all comments on Current meta etc, but I still think they are competitive enough to ensure fun games and I manage to win more than lose.

Anyway... my latest version of Aces is below:

Vader: Intensity, Title, ATC, EU, PRockets.

Inq: PTL, Title, AT, PRockets

Omega Leader: Swarm Leader, Comm Relay

 

All can 3 can have a modified 5 dice attack, are Manauvrable with good defences. 

Thoughts? 

(Before anyone says it I know about PS10 anti-ace Nym, but figured the firepower I can get should make him think very carefully before getting too close)

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13 hours ago, Dave Grant said:

I love X-Wing... I enjoy flying Imperial Aces the most. I am aware re all comments on Current meta etc, but I still think they are competitive enough to ensure fun games and I manage to win more than lose.

Anyway... my latest version of Aces is below:

Vader: Intensity, Title, ATC, EU, PRockets.

Inq: PTL, Title, AT, PRockets

Omega Leader: Swarm Leader, Comm Relay

 

All can 3 can have a modified 5 dice attack, are Manauvrable with good defences. 

Thoughts? 

(Before anyone says it I know about PS10 anti-ace Nym, but figured the firepower I can get should make him think very carefully before getting too close)

The issue is the same as Imperial players have been facing the last few waves, at least here where I am. Too fragile and not enough survivability. You essentially have the equivalent of a surgical knife in a gunfight. With ordinance being so prominent and being range 2-3 Prominent with turrets, a lot of the advantages Aces have/had is diminished. They want range 2-3 to shoot you, you want range 1 for a 1 Time big punch.  While your local store may be caught seeing it on the table again, it's not what it used to be.

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2 hours ago, Ronu said:

The issue is the same as Imperial players have been facing the last few waves, at least here where I am. Too fragile and not enough survivability. You essentially have the equivalent of a surgical knife in a gunfight. With ordinance being so prominent and being range 2-3 Prominent with turrets, a lot of the advantages Aces have/had is diminished. They want range 2-3 to shoot you, you want range 1 for a 1 Time big punch.  While your local store may be caught seeing it on the table again, it's not what it used to be.

Someone enlighten me please, but has that lack of a range bonus for secondary weapons been addressed?  I figure that another green die at range 3 would already help quite a bit. Especially with stuff like TLT, killing you through small amounts of un-dodgable damage, which you can't take long. 

I  personally don't mind designing lists around having one ace set up as a pawn, or deciding to use one as such after the game starts. When you are able to choose time and distance of these first engagements, defensive aces can be quite survivable.

And then that surgical knife goes somewhere nasty.

 

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Swarm leader on omega leader is an ibteresting choice. It makes him a far less capable one on one fighter, but much more of a threat.

I suspect you'll struggle to get a five dice shot off, because thats only possible if you're prepared to give up vader and the inquisitors evade tokens, but the idea of even a three or four dice attack your opponent can't jimmy green gice on is a creative one!

If you want a slight suggestion, I might equip the inquisitor with cruise missiles rather than proton rockets - given (a) his pilot ability, and (b) he's the only one of the three with autothrusters, he's more likely to want to hang back, and the TIE/V1 title pairs better with attack [target lock] than attack [focus].

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18 hours ago, Dave Grant said:

The "problem" with aces is one mistake (or blank with greens) and your dead... but that's what I really enjoy - every move, every dice roll is important. Makes the game tense and exciting - which is exactly what I want from a game.

 

 

 

This so much.

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19 hours ago, Dave Grant said:

The "problem" with aces is one mistake (or blank with greens) and your dead... but that's what I really enjoy - every move, every dice roll is important. Makes the game tense and exciting - which is exactly what I want from a game.

 

 

 

I really really agree with the sentiment of this. Its what drew me into this game so quickly a few months ago. The idea that you could play on the edge and win sometimes. 

But more and more im learning and coming to terms with the fact that the in game decisions matter far far less than the decisions made before the ships ever go on the table.  

 

 

Edited by Boom Owl

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I find many of my games still come down to "playing on the edge" and in-game decisions rather than what my opponent has.

 

Recent example would be when a fully loaded Dengar (same build that won swiss at GenCon I believe) was vs Soontir.

I moved second (otherwise I think I would have been dead)... as long as I was out of arc I took no damage.... flying well with multiple passes until eventually Dengar fell.

Awesome!

Another game, I made a small mistake and Dengar shot Soontir off with one blast.

 

 

Re Cruise Missiles. Don't have them, and haven't tried them yet. I like Prockets because it means Inq works well at range or R1.

 

RE OL and evades - I have played a similar list before (high damage potential , high PS) and have found the ability to joust and completely remove a ship before it shoots gives some great options... of course usually I never get the 15 reds in a turn... but the potential does concern people.

 

 

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On 8/19/2017 at 8:03 PM, Dave Grant said:

The "problem" with aces is one mistake (or blank with greens) and your dead... but that's what I really enjoy - every move, every dice roll is important. Makes the game tense and exciting - which is exactly what I want from a game.

That's not necessarily the problem. The problem is that isn't the case for everyone else AND everyone else has tools to maximize the likelihood of that mistake happening.

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Everyone has strengths and weaknesses... but from my experience the solution is usually "fly better" :-).

A game is all about enjoyment. I enjoy playing Aces.

For those worried about the competitive side, I also win far more than I lose... so they cant be "that" bad

 

Anyway... very happy to discuss Ace builds, and what people enjoy about Imp Aces, even solutions about how to beat certain things etc... but I would really appreciate it if non-constructive negative comments were kept to a minimum.

So... to be constructive "everyone else has tools to maximize the likelihood of that mistake happening"

 - for example... what is your specific issue that you as an "ace" player are struggling to deal with ???

 

For example VI Nym is a excellent Ace Killer... but Whisper with Kylo and VI Vader are a definite possible solution for the aces (and not bad vs  a lot of other things). Also list above can work. His PS10 is scary, but like an ace - one mistake and the list above Nukes him in one round.

 

 

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Vader and Inquisitor loves Cruise Missiles.

I've run this list, which also has won an store championship, not by me though.

Darth Vader — TIE Advanced     29
Veteran Instincts     1
Cruise Missiles     3
Advanced Targeting Computer     1
Guidance Chips     0
TIE/x1     0
Ship Total: 34
     
The Inquisitor — TIE Advanced Prototype     25
Veteran Instincts     1
Cruise Missiles     3
Guidance Chips     0
TIE/v1     1
Ship Total: 30
     
"Quickdraw" — TIE/sf Fighter     29
Veteran Instincts     1
Fire-Control System     2
Cruise Missiles     3
Guidance Chips     0
Special Ops Training     0
Ship Total: 35

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Trouble is, those list types are hard countered by Nym (among other things). He will have a higher PS than all of your ships so can operate with full information, and has plenty of options for auto-damage that bypass your defences - all for only a few more points than one of your aces. At that point it isn't even about whether or not you make a mistake or whether your green dice betray you.

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If Nym is a concern there are a number of options. 

Biggest issue - I believe is PS10 which negates the Aces usual advantages. That aside "autodamage" is a general issue for Aces.

So think PS11 (Vader, QuickDraw) or Kylo Ren (on whisper usually if you stick to Aces) vs Nym.

vs Autodamage that is nearly always very close (range 1 or bombs). So range control becomes key. 

Whilst the "other guys" (Nym, Miranda.... etc) are really strong the Aces can still win... it's just a big challenge. But a fun challenge.

If you don't enjoy this challenge, you don't enjoy playing on the knife-edge, or you are desperate to win "Some-big event"... then imperial aces probably aren't for you. So good luck with your meta-netlist-of-doom. 

I however will continue playing (and often winning) with my aces :-).

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i've always had issues with prockets vader. Reason being: its only 1 extra die than his main gun, puts him at risk (especially these days with bombs/autoblasters everywhere), and it makes him much more expensive for little gain.
Cruise missiles may be harder to land sometimes, but they offer something Vader needed: a punch at BEYOND R1. No idea how many times my intensity vader got a doublemodded 5die cruise missile off, its brutal. And if they get too close, ok i'll just 3die +crit your face then, no real loss for me, and i'll 4K next turn for a 5die TL only cruise followup.

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I've been running a bit of Triple Imperials, but I wouldn't call them Aces. Has a pretty nice bite and sometimes I make a couple changes, as I will show below

  • Darth Vader (29) [36]
    • x1
    • ATC (1)
    • Juke (2)
    • TIE mk. II (1)
    • Cruise Missiles (3)
  • Quickdraw (29) [36]
    • Spec Ops
    • Predator (3)
    • TIE mk. II (1)
    • Electronic Baffle (1)
    • Sensor Cluster (2)
  • Deathfire (17) [24]
    • Guidance Chips (0)
    • Cruise Missiles (3)
    • Cluster Mines (4)
    • Whatever Missile/Torp fits

So this does have some teeth. I like to use Vader's ATC shot a close range with Juke because I feel it gets  really consistent damage, along with several crits. Deathfire usually trails behind and lights people up with Cruise Missiles. Quickdraw does Quickdraw things. Often Quickdraw is the last one alive, which is okay, but I've finished a few with this Vader.

I've been playing a bit with VI Juno Eclipse instead of Vader, which is also a blast. Unless the opponent is entirely made up of turret carriers, she's really hard to nail down and can really get out of the way of enemy ordinance.

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100 points

PILOTS

“Quickdraw” (36)
Special Forces TIE (29), Intensity (2), Fire-Control System (2), Primed Thrusters (1), Special Ops Training (0), Lightweight Frame (2)

Darth Vader (36)
TIE Advanced (29), TIE/x1 (0), Intensity (2), Engine Upgrade (4), Advanced Targeting Computer (1)

“Double Edge” (28)
TIE Aggressor (19), Trick Shot (0), Unguided Rockets (2), Ion Cannon Turret (5), Lightweight Frame (2)

Idk how good this would be, but it seems fun and semi-reasonable. Would fly Double Edge with QD while Vader tries to flank/pincer. Hopefully Double Edge either does good chunks of damage with Unguided Rockets or strips tokens to hit with Ion Turret. May be bad, but thought I would share the idea anyway.

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I think both Vader and Quickdraw need Veteran Instincts to boost themselves to PS11. VI-Nym with Autoblaster turret is all over my meta at least so PS10 with a bid or PS11 is preferred if you dont want to have your aces running away the whole game.

My idea for a triple Imp-Aces build in the current meta would be something like:

Vader/VI/Title/ATC/Engine 35 pts

Quickdraw/VI/FCS/Title/LightFrame 34

Inquisitor/PtL/Title/AutoTh 31 pts

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Like a few others, I've found Cruise missles to be much better than Prockets on most imperial ships.  *nobody* expects the 4k from Vader into deadly cruise missles.  Its pretty brutal.  I'd still leave the Prockets on Inky because you won't have a good range 2-3 shot on anything higher PS.  Range 1 seems good for ordinance on him.  Swarm leader on OL is definitely an interesting choice but I'd guess it won't be as deadly and scary as good ol' juke.  Alternatively, with 27 points you could fit in Pure Sabacc with VI that also generates a ton of hate.  He hits just as hard with more of an overall bid.

My current knife-edge aces list:

Whisper/VI/ACD/FCS/Intel Agent
Fel/PTL/RGT/AT/TC
Duchess/Adaptability/AA/LWF or TC

100 points and I don't really care about the bid.  Either Whisper shoots first which people hate, or Fel and Duchess arc dodge like mad vs PS9.  The toughest match is vs Nym, in which case you can use Whisper to get in close (Intel agent+decloak usually means you don't get bombed), and once whisper gets in close you can use Duchess as a blocker knowing where Nym is going.  VS PS11 imps you can use the speed of this list to block and setup shots with the other two.  Really cool thing?  You only need to bring 2 shields and a giant sack of confidence :)

Edited by jonnyd

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Not to mention Inqy's always "R1" anyway for his normal attack so swapping for cruises on him would be a plus, if he can get the speed off, but not as needed since ideally he wants R3 anyway as he denies range bonuses while still throwing 3die fully modded attacks.
Keeping prockets on him gives him a proper R1 attack to make people not want to go there. Since that is usually how the TAP dies is someone got him in R1.

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6 hours ago, Dave Grant said:

Not all information is yet available, but I am really liking Kylo in the Silencer. Great possibilities. 

 

Problem is with most builds coming in around 45 points how do you fit him into a list. 

 

Any ideas??

A couple of TIE/fo aces? Omega and Zeta Leader should fit in nicely with standard kit.

Equally, Omega Leader and Omega Ace might be even better - Omega Ace's ability makes him nice in a squad with I'll Show You The Dark Side floating around, and the new comm-relay-for-focus-tokens makes him self-contained without stressy push the limit.

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