[MAFIA] The Wheels of Democracy ***GAME OVER***

[ovinomanc3r 4,441]

Without knowing the role I cannot help but I don't want to force a claim.

 

It is supposed that you will hear voices during the night?

[TheToad 321]

So Nippy was townie... he was acting super weird and I think we can all  agree lynching him was better than a no-lynch...

Im curious as to why nippy gave impcap both barrels... unless we have another vote power role

and this Vis Roc Mad love triangle still confuses the **** outta me

Truth is in the clear for me... he's used his power in my eyes he's a named vanilla townie now

[Visovics 1,675]

1 minute ago, ovinomanc3r said:

Without knowing the role I cannot help but I don't want to force a claim.

 

It is supposed that you will hear voices during the night?

Are you back on your blue milk problem? You'll need another rehab...

[CaribbeanNinja 6,212]

25 minutes ago, CaribbeanNinja said:

I'll go ahead and say that Pod is on my radar for his wishy-washy voting.  Especially on Truth, who I'm thinking is like 95% town (5% chance of him playing INCREDIBLY ballsy scum.)

Re-reading...I confused Roc with Pod.  My humblest apologies Roc

Pod on my radar for the Wishy washy...

Roc on my radar for going after Truth...

[Rocmistro 1,090]

Again, I hate to harp on the Truthi thing, but...

WHY ARE YOU GUYS SO SET THAT HE IS TOWNIE?

He said he was going to do something, and either he or some of his supporters all said that whatever he does will PROVE that he is either town or scum after he does it.

I asked "How can you be so sure?" And I got a million reasons about how I just need to accept it and there was no way he could get out of it. Then I voted him because I didn't buy it, and a bunch of you guys nearly brought the pain train down on me and called me a retard and idiot and didn't know how to play the game, etc.  That suggested to me there was some plain old fanboy-ing going on, but maybe you are all a bunch of scum cahootz.

 

So then he pulls his fillibuster move, a Townie dies, and...now what?  Can you guys honestly tell me that you considered that and saw it coming?  Night didn't happen which hurt both scum and town; we didn't see a night assassination so we have no way to verify/vet-out what people's claims were/voting, etc. 

 

So at the end of the day, we're down a townie, and town has very little information to use.  We are spared a night assassination, sure, but still have a dead townie with no progress on our end.  Does it matter to scum if they win by us lynching each other or them shooting us? Nope. 

 

This is exactly the kind of ambiguous end result that I was pondering/considering/not sold out and that you all shouted me down for.

[Visovics 1,675]

5 minutes ago, Rocmistro said:

Again, I hate to harp on the Truthi thing, but...

WHY ARE YOU GUYS SO SET THAT HE IS TOWNIE?

He said he was going to do something, and either he or some of his supporters all said that whatever he does will PROVE that he is either town or scum after he does it.

I asked "How can you be so sure?" And I got a million reasons about how I just need to accept it and there was no way he could get out of it. Then I voted him because I didn't buy it, and a bunch of you guys nearly brought the pain train down on me and called me a retard and idiot and didn't know how to play the game, etc.  That suggested to me there was some plain old fanboy-ing going on, but maybe you are all a bunch of scum cahootz.

 

So then he pulls his fillibuster move, a Townie dies, and...now what?  Can you guys honestly tell me that you considered that and saw it coming?  Night didn't happen which hurt both scum and town; we didn't see a night assassination so we have no way to verify/vet-out what people's claims were/voting, etc. 

 

So at the end of the day, we're down a townie, and town has very little information to use.  We are spared a night assassination, sure, but still have a dead townie with no progress on our end.  Does it matter to scum if they win by us lynching each other or them shooting us? Nope. 

 

This is exactly the kind of ambiguous end result that I was pondering/considering/not sold out and that you all shouted me down for.

I get your point, I'm trying to research to see what I can find on a role like Truth's, but so far, the closest I came to find is a virgin.

@Truthiness since it's already used, would you mind giving information on your role?

[CaribbeanNinja 6,212]

@Rocmistroregarding Truthiness...

It would be a super dumb [or SUPER bold putting himself out there] scum move to do what he did.  

Truthiness is NOT super dumb.  So while I do see a chance (very slight IMO), I'm thinking he's town.

 

[ovinomanc3r 4,441]

27 minutes ago, Rocmistro said:

Again, I hate to harp on the Truthi thing, but...

WHY ARE YOU GUYS SO SET THAT HE IS TOWNIE?

He said he was going to do something, and either he or some of his supporters all said that whatever he does will PROVE that he is either town or scum after he does it.

I asked "How can you be so sure?" And I got a million reasons about how I just need to accept it and there was no way he could get out of it. Then I voted him because I didn't buy it, and a bunch of you guys nearly brought the pain train down on me and called me a retard and idiot and didn't know how to play the game, etc.  That suggested to me there was some plain old fanboy-ing going on, but maybe you are all a bunch of scum cahootz.

 

So then he pulls his fillibuster move, a Townie dies, and...now what?  Can you guys honestly tell me that you considered that and saw it coming?  Night didn't happen which hurt both scum and town; we didn't see a night assassination so we have no way to verify/vet-out what people's claims were/voting, etc. 

 

So at the end of the day, we're down a townie, and town has very little information to use.  We are spared a night assassination, sure, but still have a dead townie with no progress on our end.  Does it matter to scum if they win by us lynching each other or them shooting us? Nope. 

 

This is exactly the kind of ambiguous end result that I was pondering/considering/not sold out and that you all shouted me down for.

He could not be town but why?

I mean, a cop has a purpose as a doc does. Why scum would like to skip the night? They are able to kill during the day and the night but during the night us when they have the complete control or likely. They also have scum chat then.

If we had tons of cop then okay. The less they investigate the better. Killing roles could kill scum so if there are several then it still has sense. But better to use it later.

I can have a poor imagination but unless townie roles could really screw them it has no sense as a scum role.

I don't worry about not having a night. I am fine with that. But Truth is right there. If you like nights go ahead a vote him. The thing is that being 13 if only two are worried about not having nights, well, they seem scum / serial killers. 

If 7 voted Truth then I would imagine there are several townies interested on do their things. And I would be interesting too.

[ovinomanc3r 4,441]

Bah! Cowards.

16 hours ago, JJs Juggernaut said:

Players:

1. @TheToad (0) Podracer
2. @BrobaFett
3. @CaribbeanNinja
4. @Madaghmire
5. @Visovics (1) Pod Racer, Rocmistro
6. @Rocmistro (3) Podracer, Madaghmire, Norell, Caldias, Ovinomanc3r, ImperialCaptain2017, Podracer
7. @moodswing5537
8. @GhostofNobodyInParticular (8) Madaghmire, Caribbean Ninja, TheToad, Visovics, Moodswing, Caldias, Ovinomanc3r, Madaghmire, Truthiness
9. @ovinomanc3r
10. @Caldias
11. @Norell
12. @ImperialCaptain2017 (3) Norell, Anonymous, BrobaFett, GNiPs
13. @PodRacer (0) Visovics, Truthiness, ImperialCaptain2017
14. @Truthiness (0) Rocmistro

There were people looking for a lynch and people who didn't. Also between the people who looked for a lynch there were some who was "fine" about lynching Ghost at the same time they didn't about lynching Roc.

My question: Why?

Vis told us why. Not the best reason but one at least. I would like to hear from @TheToad, @CaribbeanNinja and @moodswing5537.

Also, @Visovics, there is other reason? I mean thinking on him as townie per the role is weak considering Roc didn't read it the same way.

@Rocmistro, you role has sense as third party? as you say it is possible that Vis was it. Also, why you voted him if you thought he was third party? Is that role dangerous in some way?

[Rocmistro 1,090]

24 minutes ago, CaribbeanNinja said:

@Rocmistroregarding Truthiness...

It would be a super dumb [or SUPER bold putting himself out there] scum move to do what he did.  

Truthiness is NOT super dumb.  So while I do see a chance (very slight IMO), I'm thinking he's town.

 

I totally agree that Truthi is not dumb and certainly not super dumb. In fact he may be the cleverest one of our bunch. I said as much to Norell in the last game when he and I (Norell) were both scum and I wanted to kill him (Truthi) on N1.  Norell said "no", Truthi lived, we lost.

But moreso than being smart, Truthi is also highly influential amongst a lot of you. Mostly it's because he's very smart. Mostly.

Smart and influential is a dangerous combination.

________________________________________

Ok...so, I would like you all to set aside everything you know about Mafia, and everything you think you know about Mafia, and just consider the following few FACTS for a moment. 

1. At the end of Day 1, we are down 1 townie.

2. Because of the missing night, we have no information to work with.

3. Sacrificing a townie day 1 (to lynching or whatever) is only acceptable if you get some useful data out of it.

4. We got no useful data out of it, because we skipped the night-time goings on.

 

Who benefitted the most (at all) from last night's sequence of events: Scum. (town -1, town no data)

Who submitted the plan for all that? Truthi.

Who harped on the need for a day 1 lynch as a means by which to get info flowing? Truthi.

 

You say super dumb or super risky.  Right.  Exactly. The risk is that Truthi could have just enough plausible deniability in arguing that his filibuster helped the town as much as it might have helped Scum. Except it didn't, because, again, the hard results, stripped of all fluff, etc are:

Town -1

Town no good info.

 

[BrobaFett 4,212]

@Rocmistro

I think you have come to the conclusion there is no logic to truth being town other than sucking up.

I would lynch the **** out of truth in an instant with no second guess. But he has been super fortunate the last two games to get day 2 almost sure he is town roles that could be verified. 

We know his claim isn't fake because it worked.

That means he is telling the truth. That is the most town thing you can do in this game. He could be scum. So could you. Or any of us. But you have to go off the information we have.

While we are arguing about Truth what is very likely is that scum is quietly smiling to themselves and letting town hack itself apart.

So who had been quiet day 2? Norrel? Pod Racer? Let's look there and see what turns up.

[TheToad 321]

@ovinomanc3r I didn't jump on the Roc train yesterday cause he read newbie to me not scum... this thing between him Vis and Mad is still strange to me and I can't make heads or tails of it

[Rocmistro 1,090]

1 minute ago, BrobaFett said:

@Rocmistro

I think you have come to the conclusion there is no logic to truth being town other than sucking up.

I would lynch the **** out of truth in an instant with no second guess. But he has been super fortunate the last two games to get day 2 almost sure he is town roles that could be verified. 

We know his claim isn't fake because it worked.

That means he is telling the truth. That is the most town thing you can do in this game. He could be scum. So could you. Or any of us. But you have to go off the information we have.

While we are arguing about Truth what is very likely is that scum is quietly smiling to themselves and letting town hack itself apart.

So who had been quiet day 2? Norrel? Pod Racer? Let's look there and see what turns up.

Broba:

Can you explain the pro-Truthi argument like I'm 3 years old? No, seriously, maybe I'm completely brain farting here.  What did he say that convinced you he was Town?  Really need you to connect the dots for me please...

[ovinomanc3r 4,441]

2 minutes ago, Rocmistro said:

Broba:

Can you explain the pro-Truthi argument like I'm 3 years old? No, seriously, maybe I'm completely brain farting here.  What did he say that convinced you he was Town?  Really need you to connect the dots for me please...

BECAUSE TO SKIP THE NIGHT SCUM JUST NEED TO WRITE [##NO KILL].

So again,  unless we have so many night roles that could nuke the mafia team in a single night there is no point to his role to be scum.

As far as I know 3/14 are not so powerful at night.

[CaribbeanNinja 6,212]

9 minutes ago, ovinomanc3r said:

Bah! Cowards.

There were people looking for a lynch and people who didn't. Also between the people who looked for a lynch there were some who was "fine" about lynching Ghost at the same time they didn't about lynching Roc.

My question: Why?

Vis told us why. Not the best reason but one at least. I would like to hear from @TheToad, @CaribbeanNinja and @moodswing5537.

Also, @Visovics, there is other reason? I mean thinking on him as townie per the role is weak considering Roc didn't read it the same way.

@Rocmistro, you role has sense as third party? as you say it is possible that Vis was it. Also, why you voted him if you thought he was third party? Is that role dangerous in some way?

Reason I voted for GNips instead of Roc?

Because on D1 I thought my hunch about GNiPs being away and making several strange comments was correct. I was wrong.

Roc seems more like a player that just got into it with Truth and Vis. (and holy **** did it escalate)  I read it as bad town play, but I could be totally wrong.

If you think Roc is a scum, why is your vote not on him?

[BrobaFett 4,212]

1 minute ago, Rocmistro said:

Broba:

Can you explain the pro-Truthi argument like I'm 3 years old? No, seriously, maybe I'm completely brain farting here.  What did he say that convinced you he was Town?  Really need you to connect the dots for me please...

He used his role is the long and short of it for me. It's not incredibly impressive but we know he had a day roll, and one that didn't really benefit scum. Yes it affected town, but it makes no sense for the scum to have the ability to skip their own strategy and kill phase.

From there it becomes occams razor. If there is a good chance this was a town beneficial role that worked (ie he wasn't fake claiming which we know he wasnt) and a very small chance that it was an underpowered oddly given scum role, then it is most likely the first.

At least we HAVE evidence on truth. There are a lot of people we have NO evidence on. So for town, it is time to leave what we know about truth to the side for now, and focus on a wider net. Its not that we forget truth isn't 100%, but that for day 2 80% is more than enough to avoid pressure for the lynch. 

Hope that answers it for you. That is my logic plain and simple.

[Visovics 1,675]

8 minutes ago, ovinomanc3r said:

Also, @Visovics, there is other reason? I mean thinking on him as townie per the role is weak considering Roc didn't read it the same way.

I'm thinking on him as townie, because I think that JJ putting this role in the game, and giving it to both alignements, is not at all impossible, although if he had done that and told the players about each other, I think the probability just falls MASSIVELY, because as well as it could work, it would be first of all weird, it would also be a gigantic scum tell of that player depending on what happens at night, so I just think it isn't the case and we are both town as well as Mad because his role being on the mafia side would just mean that me and Roc are absolutely useless

[Rocmistro 1,090]

2 minutes ago, ovinomanc3r said:

BECAUSE TO SKIP THE NIGHT SCUM JUST NEED TO WRITE [##NO KILL].

So again,  unless we have so many night roles that could nuke the mafia team in a single night there is no point to his role to be scum.

As far as I know 3/14 are not so powerful at night.

But that would not have stopped Town from using our night roles (assuming we had any).

And how do you (or, more importantly, Truthi) in fact know that we didn't have good night roles that would have helped us?

And you're wrong; night doesn't have to be an "autowin" for town to get something useful out of it.  Scum are taking a risk at night, especially when they don't know what the town roles are, in assassinating someone.  There are lots of things that can go wrong. 

Let me try to explain it this way:

1. what happened yesterday was, for scum, 1 step forward, 0 steps back, and not only that, but NO chance of 0 steps back. It was small, but guaranteed progress for them.

2. a typical night for scum is usually like, 2 steps forward, but with a good chance of at least 1 step back, and a smaller risk of even 2 or 3 steps back.

Truthi's move guaranteed that #1, above, would be happening for them.

[Norell 1,205]

Thinking about it again, I'm concerned about Truthiness. Just think about it: This is supposed to be an ability-fest game, meaning that the town has most likely far more actions than the scums. In this case night actions help thw town more because they clear up the fog step by step. It's the scum who are racing time to kill everyone before they are revealed. Truthi's action did nothing else but made Day 2 to Day 1.5. We know nothing, we lynched a townie and all we can do is take another shot into the dark, hoping that we won't kill another fellow townie.

All in all, I think Truthi used his ability when it supported the scum the most. Now they'll have an extra dead townie by the time we learn anything. This may looks like at first as a town play but the more I think aobut it the more scummy it gets...

[Rocmistro 1,090]

1 minute ago, Norell said:

Thinking about it again, I'm concerned about Truthiness. Just think about it: This is supposed to be an ability-fest game, meaning that the town has most likely far more actions than the scums. In this case night actions help thw town more because they clear up the fog step by step. It's the scum who are racing time to kill everyone before they are revealed. Truthi's action did nothing else but made Day 2 to Day 1.5. We know nothing, we lynched a townie and all we can do is take another shot into the dark, hoping that we won't kill another fellow townie.

All in all, I think Truthi used his ability when it supported the scum the most. Now they'll have an extra dead townie by the time we learn anything. This may looks like at first as a town play but the more I think aobut it the more scummy it gets...

Yes, this. This is exactly what I've been saying in my last 4 posts.

[ovinomanc3r 4,441]

4 minutes ago, CaribbeanNinja said:

Reason I voted for GNips instead of Roc?

Because on D1 I thought my hunch about GNiPs being away and making several strange comments was correct. I was wrong.

Roc seems more like a player that just got into it with Truth and Vis. (and holy **** did it escalate)  I read it as bad town play, but I could be totally wrong.

If you think Roc is a scum, why is your vote not on him?

I am not sure about him. The more I see the more I think he is as lost as the rest. He just exacerbate the things.

2 minutes ago, Visovics said:

I'm thinking on him as townie, because I think that JJ putting this role in the game, and giving it to both alignements, is not at all impossible, although if he had done that and told the players about each other, I think the probability just falls MASSIVELY, because as well as it could work, it would be first of all weird, it would also be a gigantic scum tell of that player depending on what happens at night, so I just think it isn't the case and we are both town as well as Mad because his role being on the mafia side would just mean that me and Roc are absolutely useless

And both being scum?

2 minutes ago, Rocmistro said:

And how do you (or, more importantly, Truthi) in fact know that we didn't have good night roles that would have helped us?

Because those power roles are not lynching Truth right now.

[Visovics 1,675]

Just now, ovinomanc3r said:

And both being scum?

would be a horrible play to announce a connection and for Mad to draw himself in, one flips scum and the game is basically finished

[Norell 1,205]

Those power roles still can lynch Truthi. My problem with his ability is that I can't see any scenario where this ability could benefit the town, only when it would benefit the scum. If he has such an anti-town ability and he is town, why use it?

[ovinomanc3r 4,441]

5 minutes ago, Norell said:

Thinking about it again, I'm concerned about Truthiness. Just think about it: This is supposed to be an ability-fest game, meaning that the town has most likely far more actions than the scums. In this case night actions help thw town more because they clear up the fog step by step. It's the scum who are racing time to kill everyone before they are revealed. Truthi's action did nothing else but made Day 2 to Day 1.5. We know nothing, we lynched a townie and all we can do is take another shot into the dark, hoping that we won't kill another fellow townie.

All in all, I think Truthi used his ability when it supported the scum the most. Now they'll have an extra dead townie by the time we learn anything. This may looks like at first as a town play but the more I think aobut it the more scummy it gets...

My role is crap. Actually is so scummy that must be town, as it is. Nothing to worry about. 

[BrobaFett 4,212]

You have a point.

I am still personally very skeptical that scum with no chat would be that bold however.