Should have been named star wars: squad

[koraldon 9]

Was excited about this being a warfare type of mini game. Instead it is a skirmish game... 

Yes, I know I'm ranting but was really excited about the prospect of of have a large scale war game...

[Leveton 325]

The announcement mentions different sizes of battles.

"... Whether you’re planning a small-scale skirmish or a pitched battle between dozens of units, the game allows you to build an army that fits the way you want to play."

If a squad of troopers counts as a unit, dozens of units would seem to qualify as a fairly large-scale game. Maybe not the upper end of 40K, but still more than a skirmish.

[Engine25 2,910]

Asking because I honestly don't know: Approximately how many army points does a squad cost in 40k with a handful of mooks?

I ask because I'm curious what fraction that is of a 2000 point or 2500 point army.  In Legion, we're seeing costs around 40 points before upgrades for Stormtroopers and Rebel Troopers, and Darth Vader costs 200 points.  If a full competitive army is 1000 points or more, it will be a sizable game.  If its closer to 500 points, it may be smaller than some are hoping. 

[frankelee 75]

I just read on another site that a squad of Rebels costs 47 pts, and a full sized battle is 1000 pts. So what you have to keep in mind is that FFG is planning for you to buy like 5 starter boxes.

[player1750031 841]

6 minutes ago, Engine25 said:

Asking because I honestly don't know: Approximately how many army points does a squad cost in 40k with a handful of mooks?

I ask because I'm curious what fraction that is of a 2000 point or 2500 point army.  In Legion, we're seeing costs around 40 points before upgrades for Stormtroopers and Rebel Troopers, and Darth Vader costs 200 points.  If a full competitive army is 1000 points or more, it will be a sizable game.  If its closer to 500 points, it may be smaller than some are hoping. 

A fully decked out squad of Space Marines is around 170-200pts. Same number of Imperial Guard troopers with SAWs is around 100. A light scout vehicle is sub-100. Medium tanks around 150. Heaviest tanks and walkers are 250-350pts, beyond that you get into super-heavy stuff priced at 500pts and beyond, but that sees limited play outside of very specific tournament cheese and/or scenarios.

[Amraam01 154]

You would think there would be something like the battle scenes in the prequels, instead looks like a skirmish battle on a larger scale.  

[TylerTT 1,295]

FFG's games like this typically require 2 starter sets for a competitive sized game. I expect this will be played on a 3x6 foot board or a 4x4 board. 

[Cade Bulkin 283]

I think it is larger scale than you imagine.

Here is the way I'm looking at it.  Since the points are arbitrary, if we want to measure the scale of the game we need something to use as a base.  

Stormtroopers are a basic soldier and we know some about them, so I think they would be a standard.

In IA, A squad of troopers costs 6 points.  (There is a limit on how many copies of the same card you can have, but pretend there is not.)

40 points total/6 per squad = 6.33 squads could fit in a game.   There are 3 troopers in a squad so: 3(6.33) = 19

So you could say the scale of an IA army is 19 troopers.


Now, let's try it with legion.

From what I have seen, a standard game is 800 points.  We know that a squad of storm-troopers is 44 points and contains 4 troopers.

800 points total/ 44 points per squad = 18.18 squads in a game.  18.18(4) = 72.72  (let's round that up)

So, by that standard, the scale of a legion army is 73 troopers.

That seems like a pretty big jump in size to me.  And that is assuming 800 points per match.  Some people are speculating closer to 1000.

Also, it is worth noting that the size of an army may go up.  It did in armada after home one came out.

[Darth evil 907]

this game should have been either 20mm or 15 mm to really get the Legions feeling, now it's just a 40k with star wars

[Kentares 169]

Legion is the perfect name because the highest unit size in the Galactic Empire OB is a Legion.

(I bet it was choosen because of that)

Edited August 19, 2017 by Kentares

[Kentucky Fried Ewok 290]

Not the first time that a FFG Star Wars game has had a mis leading name.

Armada is not really what I envisage as huge fleets battling each other. 

[Kentares 169]

Star Wars Armada is misleading???

Another good laugh today... and I expected another boring day in here.

[Tirion 2,223]

3 minutes ago, Kentucky Fried Ewok said:

Not the first time that a FFG Star Wars game has had a mis leading name.

Armada is not really what I envisage as huge fleets battling each other. 

ummmm the starter set no but after 6 waves and a campaign yes.

 

same thing here it is a STARTER BOX. you don't have a full blown army out of a STARTER BOX.

[Kentucky Fried Ewok 290]

Yes, I was excited for large fleets of 20+ Imperial Star Destroyers plus supporting ships and fighters against a similar force of Rebels with the models on a smaller scale with a simplier gaming mechanic.

I'm not saying Armada is a bad game, I quite like it and the models, but the forces in the game are in my mind don't constitute a "Armada".

Edited August 19, 2017 by Kentucky Fried Ewok

[Tirion 2,223]

Just now, Kentucky Fried Ewok said:

Yes, I was excited for large fleets of 20+ Imperial Star Destroyers plus supporting ships and fighters against a similar force of Rebels with the models on a smaller scale with a simplier gaming mechanic.

I'm not saying Armada is a bad game, I quite like it and the model, the forces in it are not in my mind don't constitute a "Armada".

ar·ma·da

[ärˈmädə]

 

NOUN

1. a fleet of warships:

    

    

    

   fleet

   [flēt]

    

   NOUN

    

   1. a number of ships, vehicles or aircraft operating together or under the same ownership:

[Drasnighta 27,024]

41 minutes ago, Darth evil said:

this game should have been either 20mm or 15 mm to really get the Legions feeling, now it's just a 40k with star wars

Star Wars-hammer 40K seems to be design intent here.

 

So, y'know.  Mission Accomplished, FFG.

[Slugrage 5,011]

You think GW pulled all their 40K content from FFG on a whim? No, they were most like incredibly pissed off. There's a bunch of dedicated WH40k players in my community that are already talking of ditching their brand new 8th edition 40k once all the SW:L comes out, since they're huge SW universe fans.

[skotothalamos 3,653]

Sounds like the tournament size is going to be 1000 points. I can fit 90 stormtroopers into that army. that's a big squad.

[Herowannabe 4,376]

25 minutes ago, skotothalamos said:

Sounds like the tournament size is going to be 1000 points. I can fit 90 stormtroopers into that army. that's a big squad.

That's the point. Yes it is a big squad, but it is nowhere near a legion. It's barely a fraction. 

le·gion

[ˈlējən]

NOUN

1. a unit of 3,000–6,000 men in the ancient Roman army.

   synonyms: brigade · 

   [more]
2.  

   a vast host, multitude, or number of people or things: 

   "legions of photographers and TV cameras"

   synonyms: horde · throng · 

   [more]

ADJECTIVE

1. great in number: 

   "her fans are legion"

   synonyms: numerous · 

   [more]

 

90 / 3,000 = 0.03

 

By definition, this game is going to be, at its very biggest and best, barely 3% of a legion. 

[Manchu 966]

And the movies should be called Star War. There's only one war going on after all!

[Xargonaut 165]

26 minutes ago, Herowannabe said:

By definition, this game is going to be, at its very biggest and best, barely 3% of a legion. 

It's a game, not a 1:1 war simulation; just assume that a regular trooper miniature represents 33 "real-life" men. There you go, problem fixed! 

[Tirion 2,223]

32 minutes ago, Herowannabe said:

That's the point. Yes it is a big squad, but it is nowhere near a legion. It's barely a fraction. 

le·gion

[ˈlējən]

NOUN

1. a unit of 3,000–6,000 men in the ancient Roman army.

   synonyms: brigade · 

   [more]
2.  

   a vast host, multitude, or number of people or things: 

   "legions of photographers and TV cameras"

   synonyms: horde · throng · 

   [more]

ADJECTIVE

1. great in number: 

   "her fans are legion"

   synonyms: numerous · 

   [more]

 

90 / 3,000 = 0.03

 

By definition, this game is going to be, at its very biggest and best, barely 3% of a legion. 

You made my night! Lol

[MarekMandalore 768]

6 minutes ago, Xargonaut said:

It's a game, not a 1:1 war simulation; just assume that a regular trooper miniature represents 33 "real-life" men. There you go, problem fixed! 

I always thought of it more as the table only showing a fraction of a larger battle. Not having 10,000 Isengard Uruks and Dunlendings never stopped me from playing a part of the Battle of Helm's Deep. Preferably with one side the besieging forces of Isengard, and the other trying to hold the Deeping Wall. 

[Xargonaut 165]

6 minutes ago, MarekMandalore said:

I always thought of it more as the table only showing a fraction of a larger battle. Not having 10,000 Isengard Uruks and Dunlendings never stopped me from playing a part of the Battle of Helm's Deep. Preferably with one side the besieging forces of Isengard, and the other trying to hold the Deeping Wall. 

Sure, valid point of view.

[Herowannabe 4,376]

5 minutes ago, Xargonaut said:

It's a game, not a 1:1 war simulation; just assume that a regular trooper miniature represents 33 "real-life" men. There you go, problem fixed! 

And is Darth Vader supposed to represent 33 Sith Lords running around on the battlefield? Is Luke representing a few dozen whiny farm boys turned Jedi Knights? What about the hills and buildings and trees the models are hiding behind? Does each building represent a small village? Each tree a grove? 

No. Nice try and I applaud your efforts but... no. It's clear that this game is designed to be a skirmish game, not a large-scale ground conflict. There's no way around it. 

 

And sorry, I just... well, I'm disappointed. This is not the game I was hoping for. I wanted a game with AT-ATs supported with AT-STs and speeder bikes and dozens of storm troopers bearing down on entrenched rebel soldiers, with air speeders zipping around the battlefield and etc etc etc, but it's clear that most of that is not going to be feasible in a game this scale. 

 

I'm sure there are a lot of people who will buy Legion and love it and continue to invest in it and will be happy with it- I'm just... not one of them. 

So this is me, signing off. If you need me you can find me back over in the X-Wing forums and occasionally in the Armada forums. To everyone sticking around here: I hope Legion lives up to all of your expectations and that you all have a blast playing it.

May the force be with you, always.