Ender07

Active stun on a lightsaber?

24 posts in this topic

Has anyone ever made a full fledged lightsaber have the active stun quality to bypass soak for characters that don't want to do lethal damage? I specifically have a PC who is a healer and is adverse to doing damage, but he wants a lightsaber for protection (parry, reflect). I was thinking about giving him a low damage lightsaber (4-6 base damage) but then adding the boost to reduce parry & reflect strain by 1 to a minimum of 1. After more thought, I remembered the Active Stun quality, but I know it takes 2 advantages to activate.

Do you think it would break the game to remove that activation cost, or are there other options I am not thinking of?

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And I didn't want to just give him a training saber because that doesn't have active stun either so soak comes into play. I also wanted it to be useful like the other PC's lightsabers to cut through metal/stone/etc. which I didn't think a training saber could do.

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There's a weighted pommel cap that gives it the Stun quality. It doesn't make any sense that smacking someone with a hilt gets past Soak while many bludgeoning weapons don't, but FFG makes all kinds of stupid rules like this.

There's alos a mod that lets you convert your blade to Stun Damage, but it loses Breach while so adjusted.

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So I was basing this off the Greelwood lightsaber that is in one of the sourcebooks I believe...Here are the stats:

Lightsaber - Damage 7, Critical 3, Range [Engaged], Breach 1, Sunder ****
Force sensitive characters wielding the Greelwood saber decrease the difficulty of any Cool checks they make once. In addition, combat checks made to attack an opponent with this weapon gain 3 Setback, but the strain cost to activate the Parry or Reflect talents while wielding this weapon is reduced by 1 to a minimum of 1.

I think that's accurate although I may have altered the damage or crit...either way they get setback when attacking but reduced strain cost when using it defensively. I was thinking about something that makes the blade more defensive but maybe uses the active stun quality without the activation cost, but therefore it can't do normal damage. Or there is the option of the parry/reflect talents costing less to use...I just wanted to tailor it to the player.

 

Long story:

This player was the "problem player" I had complained about before in other threads. He went to the Dark side and didn't bother redeeming himself because "he didn't know how to."

I don't want to risk that happening again and I told him out of game about it because in my campaign if you go Dark side then your character becomes an NPC and you make a new one. I gave him 6 months and he didn't even get near 30 morality so I worked with him to make a new character and killed off his old one.

This new character is a Consular Healer and used to be a doctor, the background has him excel in using Force Misdirect and Force Move but once again the player is getting to the point that he wants a lightsaber so he can "deal all the damage." I've told him if he starts doing that like he did before, this character will drop to the Dark side and we will be back where we started...and there was a chance of kicking him from the game since this isn't the first time he's caused problems at my table over the past 2+ years.

So I was hoping to hand him a blade that did direct strain damage without losing breach, or maybe adding something like pierce of 4, that way he could do some damage if he wanted to but it would be strain and not regular damage. 

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39 minutes ago, awayputurwpn said:

You're probably looking for the kimber stone. http://swrpg.viluppo.net/equipment/attachments/2813/

If your want to homebrew it, I think the strain reduction to activate Parry/Reflect is too much. Maybe allow one of them, but not both.

So I found the stats on the Kimber stone HERE with the stun damage being added would that mean that it does normal damage otherwise unless the Stun quality is activated or is this a passive Stun quality that doesn't ignore soak?

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I had an idea for my son, who I didn't want to turn into a 6 year old murder hobo... Basically a double-bladed saber, with a crystal on one side, and a training emitter on the other. I envisioned using it as a basic lightsaber, with only one side activated at a time. The standard crystal could breach, to cool narrative effect, in non-combat situations; the other side could deal stun damage, when melee ensued. Not sure if this is achievable, RAW, but it's a thought? 

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11 minutes ago, Ender07 said:

So I found the stats on the Kimber stone HERE with the stun damage being added would that mean that it does normal damage otherwise unless the Stun quality is activated or is this a passive Stun quality that doesn't ignore soak?

It is Passive stun quality, not stun added.  The Kimber stone is designed to be non-lethal. The beauty of it is its higher base damage, and the mods to increase that damage further as well as add Concussive and Disorient mods to it.

10 minutes ago, Edgehawk said:

I had an idea for my son, who I didn't want to turn into a 6 year old murder hobo... Basically a double-bladed saber, with a crystal on one side, and a training emitter on the other. I envisioned using it as a basic lightsaber, with only one side activated at a time. The standard crystal could breach, to cool narrative effect, in non-combat situations; the other side could deal stun damage, when melee ensued. Not sure if this is achievable, RAW, but it's a thought? 

No, that is not an option by RAW. Both ends of a double-bladed lightsaber use the same stats.

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Would it break anything in-game that you can think of to make a house-rule to create a saber that has active stun with no cost to activate? That way I could just provide him with a basic saber and limit the amount of damage that it would be able to do but not have to deal with soak. If it was active stun with no cost to activate then it would be essentially a stun version of breach...which is why breach is such a powerful quality of most lightsabers.

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50 minutes ago, Edgehawk said:

I had an idea for my son, who I didn't want to turn into a 6 year old murder hobo... Basically a double-bladed saber, with a crystal on one side, and a training emitter on the other. I envisioned using it as a basic lightsaber, with only one side activated at a time. The standard crystal could breach, to cool narrative effect, in non-combat situations; the other side could deal stun damage, when melee ensued. Not sure if this is achievable, RAW, but it's a thought? 

This could be legit if you use a cyclic crystal array which allows the user the installation of a second lightsaber crytal at no hardpoint cost. The user may switch to another crystal installed in the hilt. That usually is referenced with standard blades, but I'd imagine you could use it in a double lightsaber and toggle between the two different crystals and have activation buttons for each side of the blade.

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18 minutes ago, Ender07 said:

Would it break anything in-game that you can think of to make a house-rule to create a saber that has active stun with no cost to activate? That way I could just provide him with a basic saber and limit the amount of damage that it would be able to do but not have to deal with soak. If it was active stun with no cost to activate then it would be essentially a stun version of breach...which is why breach is such a powerful quality of most lightsabers.

Yes, it would. The reason why lightsabers get Breach is because of the extreme heat generated by the plasma blade, giving it incredible cutting power. Stun blades simply don't generate that heat, which is why they don't cut, and why they don't get the Breach quality.

3 minutes ago, Ender07 said:

This could be legit if you use a cyclic crystal array which allows the user the installation of a second lightsaber crytal at no hardpoint cost. The user may switch to another crystal installed in the hilt. That usually is referenced with standard blades, but I'd imagine you could use it in a double lightsaber and toggle between the two different crystals and have activation buttons for each side of the blade.

Nope. The cyclic crystal array would make both emitters change simultaneously. Yes, you can activate only one blade, but if both are activated, they share the same stats.

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15 minutes ago, Tramp Graphics said:

Yes, it would. The reason why lightsabers get Breach is because of the extreme heat generated by the plasma blade, giving it incredible cutting power. Stun blades simply don't generate that heat, which is why they don't cut, and why they don't get the Breach quality.

Nope. The cyclic crystal array would make both emitters change simultaneously. Yes, you can activate only one blade, but if both are activated, they share the same stats.

I understand the mechanics behind a lightsabers power, I meant if other weapons like the Stokhli spray stick can have active stun and ignore soak by generating 2 advantage, why couldn't you remove the advantage portion of it and just have it active all the time or if nothing else make it cost 1 to activate. It would be like a crit mod for a lightsaber, lowering the crit by 1 to a minimum of 1...same thought could apply here. The lightsaber would have the power behind it to shock the person but obviously not the heat to cut through anything like a normal one.

For the other question with the cyclic array, I meant it more as though they could use one normal crystal and one kimber stone or training emitter, then they could toggle between them...not necessarily have them on at the same time, like one for each side...just one would be active so whether you activated one blade or two, both would have the quality of whatever active stone you have selected.

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26 minutes ago, Grimmerling said:

If chopping of limbs offends your sensibilities, don't use a lightsabre, in the first place.

The problem I have is that the player wants to have a lightsaber to help with defense such as parry and reflect. There aren't any other weapons out there that currently help with either of those as far as I know...

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23 hours ago, Ender07 said:

The problem I have is that the player wants to have a lightsaber to help with defense such as parry and reflect. There aren't any other weapons out there that currently help with either of those as far as I know...

Refrain from attacking with it, then. Dual wield a stun blaster or, for Force's sake, a club to attack; any one-hand weapon.

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On 8/19/2017 at 1:19 AM, awayputurwpn said:

The shield gauntlets from Keeping the Peace allow you to use Reflect, and they have Deflection 2, so that helps kinda. 

I looked that up and that seems like a pretty decent piece of equipment...so since it has Deflection and not Defense, does that mean there is no buff from melee attacks and it can't be used for Parry?

 

On 8/19/2017 at 4:49 PM, Grimmerling said:

Refrain from attacking with it, then. Dual wield a stun blaster or, for Force's sake, a club to attack; any one-hand weapon.

Well that's the problem, the character that was built is opposed to fighting as a Consular Healer...however the player sometimes likes to get too kill happy and become a murder hobo, which is how his old characters (now dead for this reason) fell to the Dark side. To reign him in, I am trying to refrain giving him an actual lightsaber that can outright kill things...it makes sense with his character build, backstory, and morality...but sometimes the player gets frustrated that he "can't do anything" when there are always other things to do, he just gets too focused on combat when he built a non-combat focused PC.

I am hoping that giving him something to help with the defensive portion (Reflect, Parry) without actually taking on a Lightsaber would be beneficial so he can "feel" like he has something to help protect him, but doesn't have the destructive power that a normal Lightsaber holds.

He already mentioned last session that "...once he gets his Lightsaber he could easily murder some people because his morality is at 95 right now." I told him that's not the mentality I want him to have seeing as I run a Light-side campaign and I advised anyone who goes to the Dark side becomes an NPC and needs to roll a new character. He laughed it off but I am worried that he is actually going to do it again and I don't want to kick him from my game but it's getting to the point over the years that he pushes my buttons and if he does that again then I feel like I gave him enough chances and he will be gone.

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I think you're doing way too much for this player... I don't think he should deserve that much time and effort.
If he's always acting like a murder hobo and always eager to go happy killing stuff, then why the **** does he play a jedi ?!? Just make a bounty hunter or something without Morality and case closed.

And if he goes murdering someone, then slap him with 10 conflict points.
If he does it again, then give him 10 more. Morality can drop way fast once you go murder hobo.

...

Anyway... just to help out a friendly neighborhood GM...

Use the Temple Guard Lightsaber Pike Hilt : Defensive 1, Linked 1, Stun 4, Unwieldy 3
Then you can go for 2-3 options.

1) Use the Kimber Stone crystal : Damage 9, Crit -, Stun Damage quality ; 2x Damage +1 mod, 1x Concussive +1 mod, 2x Disorient +1 mod.

2) Use the Damping Emiter : reduce damage by 2, increase crit by 1, remove breach quality, add Stun damage quality ; 2x stun damage +1 mod
    with either
    a) Etaan Crystal : Damage 6, Crit 2, Breach 1, Sunder, +2 damage when using Improved Reflect ; 2x Damage +1 mod, 1x Crit -1 mod, 1x Parry (Talent) mod, 1x Reflect (Talent) mod.
    b) Solari Crystal : Damage ? (AFB) , Crit ?, Breach 1, Sunder, Defensive 1, reduces strain cost to activate Reflect by ? ; mods ? (Its in Disciples of Harmony, but I don't have my book right now).

Going with those options, you can make a quite powerful non-leathal Lightsaber.

Good luck with that player.

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5 hours ago, Ender07 said:

I am hoping that giving him something to help with the defensive portion (Reflect, Parry) without actually taking on a Lightsaber would be beneficial so he can "feel" like he has something to help protect him, but doesn't have the destructive power that a normal Lightsaber holds.

This is exactly what a training lightsaber would do.  

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1 hour ago, JP_JP said:

I think you're doing way too much for this player... I don't think he should deserve that much time and effort.
If he's always acting like a murder hobo and always eager to go happy killing stuff, then why the **** does he play a jedi ?!? Just make a bounty hunter or something without Morality and case closed.

And if he goes murdering someone, then slap him with 10 conflict points.
If he does it again, then give him 10 more. Morality can drop way fast once you go murder hobo.

...

You're probably right. I have already had a talk with him about it so even if I gave him a regular lightsaber he should know better...I just know him, and I know if I give him something that's full power he will probably end up abusing it because he has the "must win, player vs GM" mentality.

23 minutes ago, Vorzakk said:

This is exactly what a training lightsaber would do.  

True, except without active stun it has to deal with soak and unless you make the damage extremely high then it isn't nearly as effecting at incapacitating enemies.

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3 minutes ago, Ender07 said:

You're probably right. I have already had a talk with him about it so even if I gave him a regular lightsaber he should know better...I just know him, and I know if I give him something that's full power he will probably end up abusing it because he has the "must win, player vs GM" mentality.

True, except without active stun it has to deal with soak and unless you make the damage extremely high then it isn't nearly as effecting at incapacitating enemies.

Well, that's just it. There are no weapons that deal Stun damage in any form, and get Breach. You can't do Stun and bypass Soak that way. It doesn't matter if it's Active Stun (requiring Advantage) or Stun Only. 

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1 minute ago, Tramp Graphics said:

Well, that's just it. There are no weapons that deal Stun damage in any form, and get Breach. You can't do Stun and bypass Soak that way. It doesn't matter if it's Active Stun (requiring Advantage) or Stun Only. 

Right, but what I meant is what would really break if I made a house-rule that his lightsaber had active stun with 0-1 advantages to activate it, and no breach? I mean there are already mods out there that lower the crit, increase damage, etc., so why would giving the quality active stun then adding a mod to reduce the amount of advantage it takes to activate be that game-breaking? I can't really think of much...

I understand the Kimber crystal exists with a higher damage output to combat having to go through soak, but it still seems like you could just make a crystal have active stun instead and then no having to deal with giving a weapon 11 damage, only to have 5 nullified by soak. Instead you could do a base of 6 damage with active stun and do 6 straight stun damage without having to spend any advantage or deal with soak at all.

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Posted (edited)

5 hours ago, Ender07 said:

I looked that up and that seems like a pretty decent piece of equipment...so since it has Deflection and not Defense, does that mean there is no buff from melee attacks and it can't be used for Parry?

No, but you could either houserule that this type of Brawl weapon counts for using the Parry talent (I mean, it's a shield...I could understand brass knuckles not working, but a shield...?), or pick up the Unarmed Parry talent from the Warden or Martial Artist specializations. 

Edited by awayputurwpn
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Posted (edited)

22 minutes ago, Ender07 said:

Right, but what I meant is what would really break if I made a house-rule that his lightsaber had active stun with 0-1 advantages to activate it, and no breach? I mean there are already mods out there that lower the crit, increase damage, etc., so why would giving the quality active stun then adding a mod to reduce the amount of advantage it takes to activate be that game-breaking? I can't really think of much...

I understand the Kimber crystal exists with a higher damage output to combat having to go through soak, but it still seems like you could just make a crystal have active stun instead and then no having to deal with giving a weapon 11 damage, only to have 5 nullified by soak. Instead you could do a base of 6 damage with active stun and do 6 straight stun damage without having to spend any advantage or deal with soak at all.

Actually, a lot would break. Breach works because of the excessive cutting power of a given weapon. A Stun weapon doesn't cut, and therefore can't breach.

Edited by Tramp Graphics

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