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Tetsuhiko

Imperials will be the new Spiders (Predictions/Hopes)

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Back on the whole "how long did emperor reign", there were 35 Hantei between 247 (Death of Hantei Genji) and 1103. That suggests around a little under 25 years for the average length of an Hantei's imperial reign. 

The one Hantei for whom we have firm dates, XXXVIII, was born in 1078, took the trone in 1103 (at 25 ; hardly "just after gempukku), and was still emperor and showing no signs of retirement in 1123 at 45 when Shoju went snippy at him.

It's noteworthy that Hantei, Hantei Genji, Hantei Bosai (IV), Hantei Fujiwa (V), Hantei Kusada (VI), Hantei Yugozohime (VII), Hantei Retsuhime (IX), Hantei XI, Hantei XII, Hantei XV, Hantei XVI, Hantei XX, Hantei XXI, Hantei XXXIII Hantei XXXVIII, Hantei XXXIX, Toturi I and Toturi III (Toturi II doesn't count) all died while still on the throne - nearly half the total emperors, and just about every emperor whose regnal years are known. While that includes a number of violent deaths, a large number of them are also noted to have died from old age. 

In comparison, we know of Hantei XIX and Iweko I retiring. 

So the idea that the Hantei take the throne as soon as they have their Gempukku while their predecessor retire doesn't seem to fit the facts all that well.

Edited by Himoto

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3 hours ago, Himoto said:


The one Hantei for whom we have firm dates, XXXVIII, was born in 1078, took the trone in 1103 (at 25 ; hardly "just after gempukku), and was still emperor and showing no signs of retirement in 1123 at 45 when Shoju went snippy at him.

 

"The Hantei is an unusual man, buried in tradition and the expectations of an empire. His fondest wish is to retire and leave his son some fragile peace upon which the glories of Rokugan can be rebuilt."

Winter Court: Kyuden Seppun

page 101

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24 minutes ago, Kuni Katsuyoshi said:

"The Hantei is an unusual man, buried in tradition and the expectations of an empire. His fondest wish is to retire and leave his son some fragile peace upon which the glories of Rokugan can be rebuilt."

Winter Court: Kyuden Seppun

page 101

Edited out: "Oops."

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HEY i've got some fun additions to this thread

so first, my two cents

1) you don't add shahai to the story, as a result of a tournament results about banning a potentially evil magic, because you want her to sit there and do nothing. katrina has done NOTHING so far to indicate she's a bad writer or bad at her job, so lets assume she knows how stories work. 

2) i know this further to be the case because when i asked her about this after the panel she laughed in a fashion i would described as generally maniacal and said (i'm literally quoting) "you guys did this to yourselves!". 

3) when i started getting excited about her meeting the other imperial prince who may or may not be daigotsu, she stopped me, and then asked if i was Cielago from the discord, WHICH WAS AWESOME that she's on the discord, but then she just grinned and nodded. MAKE OF THAT what you will. 

do i think we're gonna get the spider, or anything that would be recognizable sans labels as the spider? naw. but FFG has the same problems AEG did, times a few thousand. they have fans who want to play the shadowlands faction, but they can't let them be the monsters for mechanical reasons. so we're going to see something. bloodspeaker corruption mechanic? rogue imperial faction usurping the throne in the name of Fu Leng? exiled clan? i dunno. but it seems pretty clear that they don't fear adding factions to their lcgs, that the fanbase exists that would buy a shadowlands/spider/whatever faction, and that the story is being very tentatively setup for such a thing. 

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1 hour ago, Kuni Katsuyoshi said:

"The Hantei is an unusual man, buried in tradition and the expectations of an empire. His fondest wish is to retire and leave his son some fragile peace upon which the glories of Rokugan can be rebuilt."

Winter Court: Kyuden Seppun

page 101

Fair enough ; I didn't have access to Kyuden Seppun. But even then, we have him 41 (at the time), not retired, and still not retired a full four years later. So while he may have wished to do it...I'd argue he had no firm intentions or timeline in mind at the time, and clearly felt he couldn't retire yet. 

Edited by Himoto

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11 minutes ago, Himoto said:

Fair enough ; I didn't have access to Kyuden Seppun. But even then, we have him 41 (at the time), not retired, and still not retired a full four years later. So while he may have wished to do it...I'd argue he had no firm intentions or timeline in mind at the time, and clearly felt he couldn't retire yet. 

Because at that time Sotorii is only 10. 

 

Edited by Kuni Katsuyoshi

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43 minutes ago, cielago said:

HEY i've got some fun additions to this thread

so first, my two cents

1) you don't add shahai to the story, as a result of a tournament results about banning a potentially evil magic, because you want her to sit there and do nothing. katrina has done NOTHING so far to indicate she's a bad writer or bad at her job, so lets assume she knows how stories work. 

2) i know this further to be the case because when i asked her about this after the panel she laughed in a fashion i would described as generally maniacal and said (i'm literally quoting) "you guys did this to yourselves!". 

3) when i started getting excited about her meeting the other imperial prince who may or may not be daigotsu, she stopped me, and then asked if i was Cielago from the discord, WHICH WAS AWESOME that she's on the discord, but then she just grinned and nodded. MAKE OF THAT what you will. 

do i think we're gonna get the spider, or anything that would be recognizable sans labels as the spider? naw. but FFG has the same problems AEG did, times a few thousand. they have fans who want to play the shadowlands faction, but they can't let them be the monsters for mechanical reasons. so we're going to see something. bloodspeaker corruption mechanic? rogue imperial faction usurping the throne in the name of Fu Leng? exiled clan? i dunno. but it seems pretty clear that they don't fear adding factions to their lcgs, that the fanbase exists that would buy a shadowlands/spider/whatever faction, and that the story is being very tentatively setup for such a thing. 

1) Right?  I fully expect a massive bloodspeaker plot to unfurl from just her name drop.  A lot of people jump straight from Shahai to Spider Clan but she did so much more!  Seeing her name is just as important as seeing Hitomi, or Junzo.  These are characters who are 100% identified by their previous exploits.  I fully expect some mirror of their previous actions will unfold.

I'm glad to hear she had a maniacal laugh for it.  I wanted the Meishodo to be accepted mostly because I love the idea of the Meishodo and name magic subversion of the Kami.  The main thing I like about the Unicorn is the Kolat basically stripping her of power by using Meishodo.  Lets let this one grow!  It is a good villain, I like it.

I don't like spider much myself - but I do understand why people like Spider.  Its the same reason I like Scorpion.  We want a good, identifiable villain.  Shahai in the Imperial City will certainly do for a start...

Edited by shosuko

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10 minutes ago, Kuni Katsuyoshi said:

Because at that time Sotorii is only 10. 

 

I see. XXXVIII, what the heck were you thinking waiting that long to take care of your primary Imperial duty?

Give 'em the throne as soon as they get their gempukku, but let 'em wait til they're thirty to have kids is extreme playing with fire for any sort of hereditary state. Kids now, throne later is a MUCH more sensible policy. 

EDIT: Wait. I miscounted somewhere - KS happens the same year as the coup, so XXXVIII did not keep the throne four years afterward. Then again, Sotorii would have been 16, not 10, at the time (1107 birth), so would in fact have been pretty much at his gempukku, so XXXIX could have retired had he wanted to. 

Edited by Himoto

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10 minutes ago, Himoto said:

I see. XXXVIII, what the heck were you thinking waiting that long to take care of your primary Imperial duty?

Give 'em the throne as soon as they get their gempukku, but let 'em wait til they're thirty to have kids is extreme playing with fire for any sort of hereditary state. Kids now, throne later is a MUCH more sensible policy. 

EDIT: Wait. I miscounted somewhere - KS happens the same year as the coup, so XXXVIII did not keep the throne four years afterward. Then again, Sotorii would have been 16, not 10, at the time (1107 birth), so would in fact have been pretty much at his gempukku, so XXXIX could have retired had he wanted to. 

KS says ten. So it's probably just cross-edition goofiness.

In any event the ceremony hadn't happened by coup time.

And that could have had more to do with Sotorii than Hantei. If you take into account his depiction in the novel.

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4 hours ago, cielago said:

2) i know this further to be the case because when i asked her about this after the panel she laughed in a fashion i would described as generally maniacal and said (i'm literally quoting) "you guys did this to yourselves!". 

LBR, though -- any writer worth their salt would respond that way, regardless of which direction things went. :-)

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45 minutes ago, Shiba Gunichi said:

Look, I'm fairly certain that the ban/no ban choice was like Gozer telling us to choose and perish... that was not a vote for conflict/no conflict, it was to determine the form the conflict would take.

Anything else would be bad planning. If the choice were between conflict and no conflict, then one option would be boring. If the choice were merely a superficial paint job over a single conflict that will happen basically the same way regardless of how players choose, then both options are meaningless. But -- and let me be clear that I'm spinning a hypothetical here -- if one choice led to a horrible spirit being released in rural Unicorn lands, and the other led to it being released in Otosan Uchi, those could have a real effect on the story; the former might give the spirit time to gain power before anyone finds it and takes action against it, but confine its destruction to the fringes of the Empire, while the latter might mean it comes to a swifter end but does serious damage to the imperial capital before it goes down. Neither approach puts THE FATE OF THE EMPIRE into the control of a single tournament, but the consequences of the choice are substantial enough to be interesting.

(To reiterate: that's a hypothetical scenario, based solely on "what can Kinzen think up at 1 a.m. to illustrate her point?" Always consult a medical professional before taking hypotheticals to treat curiosity or Plot Prediction Syndrome.)

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On 8/19/2017 at 5:40 PM, Isawa Kioshi said:

Weren't they started because they were one of the CCG's creator's NPCs in his D&D game? The players thought they were SO cool so he brought them into the card game?

 

****, I wish I could remember where this came up at before...brain, don't, fail me now brain don't fail me now!

This came up because Kokojin was Rich wolfs personal fantasy and in order to force the square peg into a round hole - he rewrote Togashi no be not a celestial Dragon but a mere body snatching thief.  Ironically though despite Togashi no longer being a Dragon Hoshi remains an 'unexplained phenomenon' half Dragon...

 

This was basically the beginning of the end for L5r (imo)

 

Additionally the whole premise of this thread is dumb.  Spider clan was not good for the story, not good for the game and I feel contributed massively to the world of L5r going to crap, and if FFG L5r is just going to be another 'evil spiky bits' wet dream then I have no interest in contributing towards it.  

Edited by Desertspiral

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4 minutes ago, Desertspiral said:

Additionally the whole premise of this thread is dumb.  Spider clan was not good for the story, not good for the game and I feel contributed massively to the world of L5r going to crap, and if FFG L5r is just going to be another 'evil spiky bits' wet dream then I have no interest in contributing towards it.  

helpful contribution. 

7 hours ago, Shiba Gunichi said:

Look, I'm fairly certain that the ban/no ban choice was like Gozer telling us to choose and perish... that was not a vote for conflict/no conflict, it was to determine the form the conflict would take.

this was def the impression i got from things. i think given the way the story went, it may be that we picked shahai over a side clan war. 

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7 hours ago, Shiba Gunichi said:

Look, I'm fairly certain that the ban/no ban choice was like Gozer telling us to choose and perish... that was not a vote for conflict/no conflict, it was to determine the form the conflict would take.

No, if Meishodo had been banned Rokugan would have had 1000 years of peace and happiness and all the subsequent story prizes would be about who marries who. 

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8 minutes ago, Desertspiral said:

Additionally the whole premise of this thread is dumb.  Spider clan was not good for the story, not good for the game and I feel contributed massively to the world of L5r going to crap, and if FFG L5r is just going to be another 'evil spiky bits' wet dream then I have no interest in contributing towards it.  

The concept could have been handled any number of ways and potentially worked -- I believe the prevailing rumor was that the Spider were going to be the mortal, untainted worshipers of Fu Leng, making them technically legal in Rokugani society.

Moreover, whatever I may think of the Spider in-game, many Spider players have gone out of their way to support the community as a whole. My distaste for their favorite clan means absolutely nothing before that. 

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5 minutes ago, Eugene Earnshaw said:

No, if Meishodo had been banned Rokugan would have had 1000 years of peace and happiness and all the subsequent story prizes would be about who marries who. 

That would be great for all the Austen fans :).  

The heart wants what the heart wants.  I'm sure there are many people who empathise deeply with the idea of the Spider clan and yet somehow in a world where the tag line has always been "...Where Honour is stronger than steel" it seems like a lost opportunity to croon for a time where the focus is upon a group of people who are the antithesis of the elements that I, and dare I say many people gravitated to L5r in the first place - which was High fantasy Samurai, and the legend that sprung from the Day of thunder.    

 

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