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DrCthulhu

Don't fear the Legion?

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1 hour ago, Doodlebug said:

and I don't want to start painting Storm Troopers again. 

You're telling me! I think they were what did me in on Imperial Assault. They're some of the only units I have painted for IA, and I don't know if I'll finish the rest now that I keep getting new Runewars expansions.

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2 hours ago, Doodlebug said:

I know I would probably love this game but I am already all in on both IA and RW. I can't paint any other games and I don't want to start painting Storm Troopers again. 

Yeah I totally get you about painting storm troopers; they are a pain! If I get into Legion, I'll HAVE to find a way to paint them faster and better; I need to find a way to dark wash them without "dirtying" the white surface so much and having to paint white over them again and again. :wacko:

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I was excited when I heard Star Wars minis game, but the scale doesn't appeal to me. I was hoping for more of a mechwarrior size, with whole squads on one little base, and big at-ats and speeders. As it looks now, it's not a buy for me.

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9 hours ago, Aurelus said:

Looks like from the demos its played on a very small battlefield, 2x2 possibly... and lots of terrain (could be gencon thing). 

 

Full games are going to be played on 6x3 same as armada and runewars. Regular size games are 800 points per side. The armies in the demos are <400 points each (except in the team covenant video, they were using a good number of upgrades).

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I guess this is so much different from Runewars to co-exist. But as someone said before, this will hit hard the community base game. No money, no time to play everything so my bet is on RW, I just want a Rank and File game.

Legion is going to be hugely dependant of scenography and you need to storage it. As Infinity do. Move it to play with friends and so on. Then you have also to decide if going to tatooine field, to endor field, hoth, coruscant. Any of this will require from you to invest a lot of time to do it.

I love how RW is fielded and packed. Few space to pack and transport and to set up.

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Yes, I think this will hurt RW. Although they re very different games they have the same core target demographic: people new to miniatures wargaming. The SW brand is something RW just cannot compete with, when it comes to those customers.

I don't think SW Legion will deal a mortal blow to RW. But as someone withan interest in RW, I am so glad all four factions have already been announced. I would hate to see RW dry up without its fourth factions, like Battlelore 2e did.

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Defense dice/save dice. Legion has them, Runewars doesn't. What's the deal? I really thought that FFG had learned from X-wing that defense dice make games too swingy. White dice in Imperial Assault are the same way - very swingy. But Armada had no defense dice, and neither does Runewars, but there are defense dice in Legion? I'm a bit confused. I suppose wargame crowds are used to rolling saves against attacks, so it fits. And you only roll as many defense dice (evasion dice?) as the opponent rolled hits, so damage goes through a bit more easily than X-wing.

I just really find it refreshing that Runewars has only attack dice. It makes for a less fiddly game, in my opinion. I'm not saying the dice are a deal breaker for me in regards to Legion, but it's one of the things I prefer more about Runewars. That, and not spending the whole game hiding behind cover and shooting. Then again, in Runewars, once you engage you basically roll dice until either unit dies. I know the initiative system of the command tools still encourages interesting decision making when engaged, so I'm sure Legion has it's own way to make shoot outs tactically interesting.

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14 hours ago, Murnaz said:

Yeah, I gotta say I'm not very pleased to see this. I mean as long as the game doesn't die out entirely I'm ok because the local scene was never going to be very big to begin with. Man, it does seem like FFG finds a way to burn me everytime I buy in to one of their systems. Warhammer Diskwars, Warhammer Quest adventure card game, now this.

 

To be fair I'm pretty sure FFG was not planing on ending WQACG that fast.

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I think player base wise this hurts RW. 

But in terms of games competing with one another I think this hurts Imperial Assault - skirmish mode specifically.

i think that will largely cease being a tournament game, it never truly got off the ground anyhow.  

Campaign mode is safe because it appeals to different players and provides a completely different play experience. And once the app is out, going full co-op and not requiring a GM will make it huge. 

 

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Another skirmish game, so disappointed in the scale. I wanted epic star wars land battles, not "star wars: squad" as another poster mentioned. 

No AT-ATs :( . I'm more likely to take up Bolt Action, at least you can field Tiger tanks

Runewars... no change for me, but hope Legion doesn't cost us some prospective players

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After a long think I've decided to stick with Runewars. Mainly due to the fact it will have more varied units and I feel I can play about with colour schemes rather than feeling forced into painting loads more white stormtroopers.

I just wish they gave some details on the 'ton of miniatures lined up' for Runewars as if the new Uthuk units were revealed and another wave of units for all existing factions I'd feel a lot more confident picking a faction. I'm normally all about the Uthuk but the dread cavalry have made Waiqar really interesting.

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Yup, sad to say but i basically just gave up on any hope for getting RWM in my area going.
Starwars is ridiculously popular around here. Practically everyone i know that wanted to play RWM, but wanted to play elves/uthuk or wanted to see how they all played before buying in, now wants to play Legion.

ugh...ffg why you shoot yourself in the foot so?

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9 hours ago, Xargonaut said:

Yeah I totally get you about painting storm troopers; they are a pain! If I get into Legion, I'll HAVE to find a way to paint them faster and better; I need to find a way to dark wash them without "dirtying" the white surface so much and having to paint white over them again and again. :wacko:

Here's how I would do it, paint your darkest color and don't bother washing at all, then use a mid tone grey, up to white for 50% of the panels, where highlights fall.  How many steps this takes, depends on how much you want to blend and how smooth you want it.

A wash is going to dirty it, every time.  One way to limit this, somewhat though, if you insist on using a wash.  Paint it white- gloss varnish it- then wash it.  Should be very difficult to get the wash to stick much on the smooth gloss surface.

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10 minutes ago, Darthain said:

Here's how I would do it, paint your darkest color and don't bother washing at all, then use a mid tone grey, up to white for 50% of the panels, where highlights fall.  How many steps this takes, depends on how much you want to blend and how smooth you want it.

A wash is going to dirty it, every time.  One way to limit this, somewhat though, if you insist on using a wash.  Paint it white- gloss varnish it- then wash it.  Should be very difficult to get the wash to stick much on the smooth gloss surface.

Nice tips, I'll try that. Thanks.

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2 hours ago, Xargonaut said:

Nice tips, I'll try that. Thanks.

No problem, the 'no wash' method is what I've been doing with Armada and I feel it gives much more defined panel lines and is generally less work, as I eliminated a step.  Typically I'll use my basecoat + black at 1:2 or something for that.

 

Watched to Legion demo, drawn cards, defense dice, imprecise movement, random activation (never much cared for old school impulses). Looks pretty lame.

Edited by Darthain

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2 hours ago, Darthain said:

Watched to Legion demo, drawn cards, defense dice, imprecise movement, random activation (never much cared for old school impulses). Looks pretty lame.

The card is played from your hand, not drawn from a deck.

Defense dice...basically saving throws so pretty much standard.

Imprecise movement. I think its pretty precise. I love that vehicles are treated differently and the fact that you only measure to squadleader and then follow up with the others into cohesion is brilliant! Its still precise, just offers a bit of variety within a unit and helps speed a game up a lot! AND eliminates people accusing othjers of imprecise measuring of movement :D 

Random activation is not so random if you think about it. Btw it always alternates between players.

 

Im a bit weary of how expansions/waves will come for this but I find the ruleset to be very neat! Refreshing and well thought out and without having played it I must say it looks to play very smooth and intuitive!

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I will say that the command cards (or whatever they're called) remind me a lot of BattleLore 2E, which is very exciting. The difference is that you still get to move all of your troops each round, just maybe not in the order you were anticipating. I think it does an okay job at simulating the fog of war, but it's nowhere close to the hidden deployment in BattleLore.

Oh, BattleLore, what a fun game you are.

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18 minutes ago, Parakitor said:

I will say that the command cards (or whatever they're called) remind me a lot of BattleLore 2E, which is very exciting. The difference is that you still get to move all of your troops each round, just maybe not in the order you were anticipating. I think it does an okay job at simulating the fog of war, but it's nowhere close to the hidden deployment in BattleLore.

Oh, BattleLore, what a fun game you are.

the C&C system is fun, beer and pretzels stuff yes. I like Napoleonics personally. 

 

57 minutes ago, Soulless said:

The card is played from your hand, not drawn from a deck.

Defense dice...basically saving throws so pretty much standard.

Imprecise movement. I think its pretty precise. I love that vehicles are treated differently and the fact that you only measure to squadleader and then follow up with the others into cohesion is brilliant! Its still precise, just offers a bit of variety within a unit and helps speed a game up a lot! AND eliminates people accusing othjers of imprecise measuring of movement :D 

Random activation is not so random if you think about it. Btw it always alternates between players.

 

Im a bit weary of how expansions/waves will come for this but I find the ruleset to be very neat! Refreshing and well thought out and without having played it I must say it looks to play very smooth and intuitive!

I realized everything but the cards, still don't like it.  I dislike the movement, it seems lazy, not brilliant. 

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It is a bit unsettling to me.

FFG has announced A LOT of games recently - how many resources do they have to devote to all these games to keep them going?

I vastly prefer the fantasy setting of RW over SW and will keep supporting RW, but it hasn't yet fulfilled the promise of the game. I think it has great potential if it gets the care and feeding it deserves.

Some will live and grow and others will pass away, which games will be the ones that pass away?

I'm sure I'm not the only one that has devoted time and energy into a game only to have that happen.

Sheesh I just got the elves, and plan on buying a lot of their expansions. I'm buying and painting Waiqar and Daqan as antagonists to the elves. 

Maybe I can relax: Elves VS Storm troopers?

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12 hours ago, Xargonaut said:

Nice tips, I'll try that. Thanks.

I have been painting white armor with my Daqan.

I took the dark tone from Army painter and mixed it 1:2 with the quickshade wash mixing medium to thin it out -- (4 drops dark, 8 drops mixing medium). 

The trick is to not apply it to the big white panels, but it turns out pretty good.

 

https://www.amazon.com/photos/share/T8YFE8IJlUzoGRHAULgRn6Yu8Iz31awcECMu6d4qC0H

 

Edited by Glucose98

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So I wonder about the activation system in Legion. Is it just a gimmick? Why not just have alternating activations like in Armada/Imperial Assault? 

Is it just to be different for the sake of it? Or is the 'fog of war' really that much of a mini wargame staple? Is imperfect information strictly necessary? 

Also what's the point of 'defensive surges' and 'offensive surges'? Can't they just be surges like in Imperial Assault/Descent? 

Surely the fact that they appear on attack dice or defense dice and that each surge ability would be contextual (you wouldn't, for example, add a block when attacking) is enough? 

Seems needlessly inelegant - which is very unlike FFG. 

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I'm sticking to rune Wars. I already have an FFG Star Wars 30ish mm miniatures game that is chock full of storm troopers. 

If they make a conversion kit then i may be tempted but I will still play rune Wars as long as I have a freind to play it with 

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I'm not sure how you think movement is impercise. You can premeasure the movement before you move.  You can move any distance along the tool and stop at anytime, and you can move the rest of your unit to exactly where you want them to be as long as they are in cohesion with the leader.  It is exactly precise while still limiting the distance a unit can travel in a single activation.

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