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MajorJuggler

2017 Nationals Championships

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21 minutes ago, Hoffburger said:

A winner of a large tournament is going to combine a decent list with decent flying and decision making and a hefty amount of luck. It doesn't matter if you position yourself perfectly and get off perfect ordnance/bombs if you don't roll damage. Imperials aren't that poorly positioned in the current meta, they are just higher variance than rebels and imperials currently because they rely on green dice (for the most part). Green dice will make the game more of a blowout in either direction than when you have low agility ships with high health. The meta right now is in a very good place. There are tons of viable builds and you just have to minimize mistakes and let RNJesus take you to victory.

Viable, perhaps by your definition. But if we are talking about the TOP tier? That is a very thin layer.

 

For rebels-

fly at least 2 of the following (some don't necessarily work together, but every top tier has 2 of these pilots): Miranda, Nym, Biggs, Lowrrick, Kanan, Dash

 

for scum-

 

fly the following: Mindlink, or Dengar Nym, or Scurrgs

 

for Imperials-

use and do the following-  over ps 8 pilots with cruise missiles, and outfly all opponents fielding bombs heavily, or RAC Kylo with something and pray you don't get a bad match up.

 

 

Edited by Kdubb

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4 hours ago, Celez said:

They were talking about an xwing panel with the designers on the YouTube stream. Could anyone please give a summary of what they talked about ? Or will this be posted online somewhere?

Supposed to be posted online by nova in the near future, it was recorded. Basically talked about the state of the current meta, what an ideal meta in a perfect world from ffg would look like, some thoughts on the upcoming meta, (based on what we know, no tlj spoilers), and some T.O related stuff regarding the FAQ. 

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40 minutes ago, FlyingAnchors said:

Supposed to be posted online by nova in the near future, it was recorded. Basically talked about the state of the current meta, what an ideal meta in a perfect world from ffg would look like, some thoughts on the upcoming meta, (based on what we know, no tlj spoilers), and some T.O related stuff regarding the FAQ. 

Sweet that sounds like some good info.

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6 hours ago, Hoffburger said:

Imperials aren't that poorly positioned in the current meta, they are just higher variance than rebels and imperials currently because they rely on green dice (for the most part). 

This is only part of the problem. They also rely heavily on the maneauver part of the game. 

-Imperials must get their arcs on target

-Imperials cannot bump or they will lose the action necessary for green dice modification

-Because they rely on green dice modification so heavily **** either need double actions or cheat actions to improve their offence. 

-The low health makes them extremely vulnerable to bombing mechanics which unfortunately can be used on them without any decision making on the part of the Imperial player - except at ps 11 to avoid the Bomblet which sacrifices actions necessary for green dice modification. 

-Banking MOV is extremely important for winning games and making cuts. Imperials cannot bank MOV like a certain few winning ships. 

 

Seriously though, there was a time when Turrets were ruining the game and were everywhere. The puny Imperial Aces people loved just couldn't handle the consistency of fire and thus Autothrusters was invented. Turrets went away as a dominant force (they still existed - seriously the only 2 times a Turret didn't win Worlds were the first 2), but the Ace had to be killed. FFG design went on a rampage, designing upgrade after upgrade and ship after ship from waves 7-11 until Autothrusters was dead. And what should surprise no one is that what is left in the dust of all those bombs is the Turret. Turrets are everywhere. They are the dominant force.

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What are these Yorr QD Vader lists?  Someone want to explain the high ranking ones?  Are they one trick ponies? 

Captain Yorr (24)
Kylo Ren (3)

Darth Vader (29)
Veteran Instincts (1)
Cruise Missiles (3)
Advanced Targeting Computer (1)
Engine Upgrade (4)
TIE/x1 (0)

"Quickdraw" (29)
Veteran Instincts (1)
Fire-Control System (2)
Cruise Missiles (3)
Guidance Chips (0)
Special Ops Training (0)

Total: 100

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

 

This looks boring AF actually.  

Kylo something, attempt a cruise run? No GCs on Vader? Want me nay nay and roll 2 hits completed evaded by naturla greend ice luck on Dengar

Edited by Blail Blerg

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13 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:

What are these Yorr QD Vader lists?  Someone want to explain the high ranking ones?  Are they one trick ponies? 

Captain Yorr (24)
Kylo Ren (3)

Darth Vader (29)
Veteran Instincts (1)
Cruise Missiles (3)
Advanced Targeting Computer (1)
Engine Upgrade (4)
TIE/x1 (0)

"Quickdraw" (29)
Veteran Instincts (1)
Fire-Control System (2)
Cruise Missiles (3)
Guidance Chips (0)
Special Ops Training (0)

Total: 100

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

 

This looks boring AF actually.  

Kylo something, attempt a cruise run? No GCs on Vader? Want me nay nay and roll 2 hits completed evaded by naturla greend ice luck on Dengar

Vader is a ton of fun, but is simply there for PS11. QuickDraw is also there for PS11, but receives a benefit for bombs. Cruises will be replaced with Harpoons no doubt. But Cruise is more of a control piece than anything. Hold the threat. Don't force it and get out positioned. Don't need Guidance Chips with TL/Focus. It's definitely not boring because of Vader.

I have tried Yorr, Vader, and have interchanged the third ship a few times. This week was Soontir simply cuz it seemed fun to bring back the old buddies.

Yorr only needs to get Kylo off once to be effective and soak up a few stress. 

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32 minutes ago, Oldpara said:

Is there somewhere a place with all Continental/National results including lists gathered? 

I thought It is supposed to be this thread but first posts are not edited and no results there :(

 

I'm slacking, I'll try and at least get List Juggler links that are posted here.

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29 minutes ago, Tbetts94 said:

Vader is a ton of fun, but is simply there for PS11. QuickDraw is also there for PS11, but receives a benefit for bombs. Cruises will be replaced with Harpoons no doubt. But Cruise is more of a control piece than anything. Hold the threat. Don't force it and get out positioned. Don't need Guidance Chips with TL/Focus. It's definitely not boring because of Vader.

I have tried Yorr, Vader, and have interchanged the third ship a few times. This week was Soontir simply cuz it seemed fun to bring back the old buddies.

Yorr only needs to get Kylo off once to be effective and soak up a few stress. 

Harpoons are 4 points.  No room left. 

Is this really a good enough build for T1?  

 

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1 hour ago, Blail Blerg said:

Harpoons are 4 points.  No room left. 

Is this really a good enough build for T1?  

 

I made this list few weeks ago. I can't tell if it's tier 1. It depends who fly it I guess...

The point is: there are lists with embebed combo, and there are lists you will need to fly well against good players to make the synergies works. This list is second category.

VP11 / Cruise / Kylo+Vader / Yorr+Red move. All that is just a set of tools you may need/use against certain lists and not others. If you fly this like an Alpha Stike list, it wont work.

Edited by Eythau

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35 minutes ago, Eythau said:

I made this list few weeks ago. I can't tell if it's tier 1. It depends who fly it I guess...

The point is: there are lists with embebed combo, and there are lists you will need to fly well against good players to make the synergies works. This list is second category.

VP11 / Cruise / Kylo+Vader / Yorr+Red move. All that is just a set of tools you may need/use against certain lists and not others. If you fly this like an Alpha Stike list, it wont work.

Okay. want to explain it then? 

I just did a test run of Harpoons and no EU on Vader, worked out pretty well.  But it was alpha strikey. 

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The best Imperial lists now seem to be one of two options, all in PS 9-11 cruise missile Alpha Strike list, or RAClo+ace. I saw a stream of day 1 or 2 where a barely in range 3 Nym get wiped off the board in the first exchange by 3 cruise missiles from a Vader, QuickDraw, Tomax all with VI, cruise missiles, and chips, then it was 3-1 imps vs 52 point Dash. 5 dice modified ordnance can still wipe out low agility Rebel ships and getting to PS 10-11 helps with the set up.

That said, Duncan Howard made top 8 at NOVA with Yorr Palp shuttle, Vader with cruise missile, and Omega leader with hull upgrade. And there was at least one other Imperial list with two cruise missile aces and a palp shuttle in the top 64. So a few people are using Palp on the shuttle instead of on RAC with Kylo and having some degree of success. 

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3 hours ago, Blail Blerg said:

Harpoons are 4 points.  No room left. 

Is this really a good enough build for T1?  

 

Move Engine off Vader and then put LWF and Harpoons on. The build can move around for taste.

 

Duncan just proved Vader can make it right now. QuickDraw has proven time and time again that he can. Kylo Yorr is only thing questionable. But after playing with it for a few weeks I'd rather have that Lambda than a Omicron Palp Shuttle, especially if they stick with the Gencon ruling on LWF and Palp.

Edited by Tbetts94

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1 hour ago, Jarval said:

What was the ruling out of interest?

You can Palp the original roll, or, if you tried for natties and didn't get it, you can Palp the third dice, but if you naturally evade that third dice, Palp doesn't effect the original dice....which I thought was obvious, but rules-lawyers tried; attempting anything positive for the struggling Empire I guess.

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PS 11 is important again with all the Nym, Vader is also a little more resistant to bombs than other imp aces and can use the one major Imp threat at this moment, cruise missiles. Those traits seem to be the reason for his... well, I don't quite want to call it a resurgence yet, Vader isn't performing that well. Relative to the Imperial performance as a whole the fact that he exists at all is enough to make him notable though.

Using Duncan's top 8 appearance to claim it proves Vader can make it right now is a little light. Vader was near the top of the French Nationals as well so there are a few other points in favor of that conclusion though. He might prove to have staying power and remain near the top throughout the nationals and into the regionals season, along with QuickDraw and RAC the other top performing Imperial pilots so far. 

Edited by mdl0114

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1 hour ago, clanofwolves said:

You can Palp the original roll, or, if you tried for natties and didn't get it, you can Palp the third dice, but if you naturally evade that third dice, Palp doesn't effect the original dice....which I thought was obvious, but rules-lawyers tried; attempting anything positive for the struggling Empire I guess.

That all seems very sensible.

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26 minutes ago, mdl0114 said:

PS 11 is important again with all the Nym, Vader is also a little more resistant to bombs than other imp aces and can use the one major Imp threat at this moment, cruise missiles. Those traits seem to be the reason for his... well, I don't quite want to call it a resurgence yet, Vader isn't performing that well. Relative to the Imperial performance as a whole the fact that he exists at all is enough to make him notable though.

Using Duncan's top 8 appearance to claim it proves Vader can make it right now is a little light. Vader was near the top of the French Nationals as well so there are a few other points in favor of that conclusion though. He might prove to have staying power and remain near the top throughout the nationals and into the regionals season, along with QuickDraw and RAC the other top performing Imperial pilots so far. 

Duncan is a better player than I, but I found his choice of Omega Leader to be a little confusing.  In a vacuum, OL is one of the very best Imperial picks, but in a high HP world, she's a little lackluster.  She maybe does some work against Dengar, and maybe FSR to ignore Lowhrick and slowly wear down Biggs?  Keeping the squad the same, I'm not sure what a better replacement would be, though.

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15 minutes ago, Biophysical said:

Duncan is a better player than I, but I found his choice of Omega Leader to be a little confusing.  In a vacuum, OL is one of the very best Imperial picks, but in a high HP world, she's a little lackluster.  She maybe does some work against Dengar, and maybe FSR to ignore Lowhrick and slowly wear down Biggs?  Keeping the squad the same, I'm not sure what a better replacement would be, though.

Yeah for the points OL is still potent, just not a major offensive threat. I don't know what else you can fit in at that cost.

Edited by mdl0114

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27 minutes ago, mdl0114 said:

Yeah for the points OL is still potent, just not a major offensive threat. I don't know what else you can fit in at that cost.

The problem is you're a touch shy of 31 point Inquisitor, which seems like a nice addition for defence against turrets.  Doesn't really add bomb resistance, though.  You could do Backdraft with FCS and a zero point EPT for 29.  Way less tough than OL, but not against bombs, and gives you some nice maneuverability and good firepower against bombing ships.  

Edited by Biophysical

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The OL Duncan ran was with hull upgrade for 4 hull/1 shield which is only 1 less than Backdraft with an extra defense die and juke/ability to push damage through. With Palp and OL with juke you can always force a crit through onto a Miranda or Nym, but yeah I dunno. It clearly worked out pretty well for Duncan, since he made it to top 8. I'm not sure what changes would do better against Miranda/Nym and equally well against fairship, RAClo, and the rest of the field, which is probably why I'm not top 8 at any Nationals haha.  

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3 hours ago, clanofwolves said:

You can Palp the original roll, or, if you tried for natties and didn't get it, you can Palp the third dice, but if you naturally evade that third dice, Palp doesn't effect the original dice....which I thought was obvious, but rules-lawyers tried; attempting anything positive for the struggling Empire I guess.

Actually, at Worlds, Frank ruled you could convert any of the dice if you Palped the LWF roll. Then, at Gencon he changed his mind and said you could only Palp the LWF roll if you call Palp before you rolled it.

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