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MajorJuggler

2017 Nationals Championships

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1 hour ago, Jo Jo said:

 

Yeah... but Harpoons. Kind of hard to run a crack swarm going forward. I guess you can drop Howlrunner and not stay in a tight formation.

I love the Tie/D list.

It was a fun list to play, and I had several turns where my opponents set zero dials (fun for me at least). I knew it wasn't a tier 1 list going in (or even tier 2 :D). It was more to hate on the current meta of 2-ship lists. The list is pretty good against other lists too (I did manage to beat the tie swarm round 4).

The big issue with the list, as I've said before, is you really lack modifiers (especially compared to some of the meta heavyweights). If all 3 ships are shooting you get to make 5 attacks, but you only have 2 focus tokens between those 5 attacks (the third focus + Palp is spent defending a Delta). It makes the list very swingy. Some turns you'll utterly mulch a ship, and on others all of your shots will impotently bounce off your opponent's green dice (if you even manage to roll a hit). It means you need to be really good at adapting to the game on the fly, as there are no guaranteed kills like other lists can do (looking at you Nym).

It's the same on defence. Three agility with Palp (if he's alive) + focus isn't the most reliable defence in the current meta. You hope that the Deltas just slowly bleed HP, but there were a few times where I had a focus and got the dreaded 3x Blanks. You just need to roll with it and try to punish your opponent's MoV even if you lose.

Also PtL Dash sucks. The Lone Wolf version is perfectly beatable, but PtL Dash is an uphill battle. That's true for all generic lists though.

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1 hour ago, Tbetts94 said:

The attack that assigns the condition does not trigger the condition, since that condition is assigned after the attack has already resolved. So from my understanding the first harpoon shot won’t do anything if it killed the Tie. You would need multiple Harpoons in the list. 

It's questionable and definitely needs to be clarified.

My understanding is that condition should be applied in step8 of Timing Chart and destroyed ships should be removed in step10. Don't see any other possible steps to put conditions on unless we make new one. 

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On the other topic: this Saturday is Czech/Slovakia Nationals in Brno.

It's 4th of November so 2 days before changes goes alive but organizers (after the poll with players supporting this decision) decided to play along new FAQ and with Guns for Hire. It's gonna be fun! 

First taste of the New Meta :)

We'll try to stream some matches on Legion YT channel, but our YouTuber can't come so it might be tricky. 

Edited by Oldpara

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7 minutes ago, Oldpara said:

It's questionable and definitely needs to be clarified.

My understanding is that condition should be applied in step8 of Timing Chart and destroyed ships should be removed in step10. Don't see any other possible steps to put conditions on unless we make new one. 

Yeah it’s confusing. I don’t get why they introduced these types of upgrades where you need to hire a lawyer to interpret them for you. 

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1 hour ago, Oldpara said:

It's questionable and definitely needs to be clarified.

My understanding is that condition should be applied in step8 of Timing Chart and destroyed ships should be removed in step10. Don't see any other possible steps to put conditions on unless we make new one. 

As worded, Harpooned isn't applied at any point of the timing chart and therefore isn't applied to a ship that is destroyed by the missile. "After attacking" or "after defending" are phrases that, now, have specific meanings. Harpooned does not use those phrases. As written, an attack isn't resolved until after step 10 is complete. Until you've completed the chart, you're still working through the timing chart for performing an attack, so the attack isn't resolved.

After step 10, if there's still a ship (simultaneous fire rules, say), it could be Harpooned. If the ship is gone, it can't be Harpooned, because it's gone. 

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2 hours ago, mxlm said:

As worded, Harpooned isn't applied at any point of the timing chart and therefore isn't applied to a ship that is destroyed by the missile. "After attacking" or "after defending" are phrases that, now, have specific meanings. Harpooned does not use those phrases. As written, an attack isn't resolved until after step 10 is complete. Until you've completed the chart, you're still working through the timing chart for performing an attack, so the attack isn't resolved.

After step 10, if there's still a ship (simultaneous fire rules, say), it could be Harpooned. If the ship is gone, it can't be Harpooned, because it's gone. 

You might want to take this discussion to the rules forum.  That said there are a number of cards that trigger after attacking or after defending that do not use that wording.  For example, fire control system says “after you perform an attack” and triggers in step 8 so the fact that harpoon uses a slightly different terminology is largely irrelevant.  As it currently stands “resolve” belongs in the same place “immediately” resides. 

As for Nationals, Aussie nationals looked primo with a mixture of great squads and high level play. Just good to see that New Zealand can compete on the international stage. Worlds takeover might be next...

 

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6 hours ago, CRCL said:

Also PtL Dash sucks. The Lone Wolf version is perfectly beatable, but PtL Dash is an uphill battle. That's true for all generic lists though.

@DR4CO

:P

Edited by jokerkd

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4 minutes ago, Samurai33 said:

Does anyone know the build on the Poe/Dash list Oliver Pocknell is running?

Could be the same that he played in the TC Open against me in the top16. Cool Poe and imo new standard Dash:

Poe Dameron (PS9) (33)
Intensity (2)
BB-8 (2)
Comm Relay (3)
Autothrusters (2)
Black One (1)

Dash Rendar (36)
Veteran Instincts (1)
Heavy Laser Cannon (7)
Rey (2)
Burnout SLAM (1)
Smuggling Compartment (0)
Countermeasures (3)
Outrider (5)

Total: 98

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

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6 minutes ago, fhdz said:

New Zealand Nationals won by Paul Johnson (who also won Australian Nationals), with Scout/Asajj/Thweek.

Paul was running

Assaj - Latts Razzi and PTL

Thweek - both titles, FCS and Autothrusters

 Contracted Scout - Trick Shot, Rigged Cargo and Intel Agent

99pts

 

Paul ran a lot of Parattanni so it’s a lot of the same pieces. Thweek is more or less a Sustained Fire Ace similar to Fenn but not as dangerous. The Intel Scout and Assaj are really just parts of the toolkit you use as necessary. 

 

I came 2nd with

Darth Vader - VI, Title, ATC, Engine

Quickdraw - VI, Title, FCS, LWF, Pattern Analyser

OGP - Palp, Collision Detector

100pts

 

it was a pretty tough final. I feel like Paul’s list has the tools to beat my list but I did manage to find a win condition halfway through the match. Unfortunately Vader couldn’t punch through Assaj fast enough to get to a cat and mouse endgame against Thweek where Vader would have won at time. 

I tried really hard to get a win for the Imperials this Nationals season but alas, it was not to be. Paul is a great opponent though and we play each a lot, but he is definitely on a roll at the moment. 

From playing my list a lot I have to say I really don’t like the Palp LWF interaction. I know that it isn’t super clear in the FAQ but we played it at this tournament that you Palp the 2 or the 1 and ca only change the dice you Palp before. What I dong like about the interaction is the high level of gambling involved. The change to Palp is fine, and knowing when to use Palp is interesting from a game standpoint, but the way that these two cards currently interact takes away good choice for a Palp player and just makes it all bad choice, which makes me super reluctant to actually use Palp on either roll. This is most noticeable against TLT (which I faced a lot in this tournament). To be clear I’m not really talking about whether the ruling/clarification is bad or good, just that as a player it’s actually immensely frustrating chasing Palp in LWF. If all 3 LWF dice were rolled at the same time it would be much less so.

Also unsurprisingly I faced Turrets in every single game (all 9). It’s rough, but doable.

 

The rest of the top 8

3rd

Dash - Lone Wolf, Rey, Counter Measures, Title, HLC

Lothal Rebel - Hera, Autoblaster, Gunner, FCS

 

4th

Dormitz - Hyper Wave Comm

Quickdraw and Backdraft with Hyperwave, Cruise Missiles and a bunch of other upgrades I’m not totally sure of. But suffice to say this list would jump you right at the start and maul you. Most people couldn’t escape it. 

 

5-8

Rey - Expertise, Sloop Title, Kanan, Finn

Miranda - 3p0, TLT, Bomblet, LRS

 

Torkil - TLT, Greedo, Moldy Crow Title

2x Lok Revenant - Deadeye, Harpoons, EM, GC, Autoblaster Turret

 

Biggs, Lowrick, Jess, Rex. Standard FSR, Lowie has Tactician. 

 

And the one list I didn’t see was Thweek, Lok revenant and something else which might have been a Khirazx. 

 

So lots of variety in the top 8 which is good. We had 18 Rebel, 13 Imperial and 12 Scum start day one and ended with 3/2/3 in the top 8. 

 

Definitely a fun tournament. 

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46 minutes ago, DodgingArcs said:

Paul was running

Assaj - Latts Razzi and PTL

Thweek - both titles, FCS and Autothrusters

 Contracted Scout - Trick Shot, Rigged Cargo and Intel Agent

99pts

 

Paul ran a lot of Parattanni so it’s a lot of the same pieces. Thweek is more or less a Sustained Fire Ace similar to Fenn but not as dangerous. The Intel Scout and Assaj are really just parts of the toolkit you use as necessary. 

 

I came 2nd with

Darth Vader - VI, Title, ATC, Engine

Quickdraw - VI, Title, FCS, LWF, Pattern Analyser

OGP - Palp, Collision Detector

100pts

 

it was a pretty tough final. I feel like Paul’s list has the tools to beat my list but I did manage to find a win condition halfway through the match. Unfortunately Vader couldn’t punch through Assaj fast enough to get to a cat and mouse endgame against Thweek where Vader would have won at time. 

I tried really hard to get a win for the Imperials this Nationals season but alas, it was not to be. Paul is a great opponent though and we play each a lot, but he is definitely on a roll at the moment. 

From playing my list a lot I have to say I really don’t like the Palp LWF interaction. I know that it isn’t super clear in the FAQ but we played it at this tournament that you Palp the 2 or the 1 and ca only change the dice you Palp before. What I dong like about the interaction is the high level of gambling involved. The change to Palp is fine, and knowing when to use Palp is interesting from a game standpoint, but the way that these two cards currently interact takes away good choice for a Palp player and just makes it all bad choice, which makes me super reluctant to actually use Palp on either roll. This is most noticeable against TLT (which I faced a lot in this tournament). To be clear I’m not really talking about whether the ruling/clarification is bad or good, just that as a player it’s actually immensely frustrating chasing Palp in LWF. If all 3 LWF dice were rolled at the same time it would be much less so.

Also unsurprisingly I faced Turrets in every single game (all 9). It’s rough, but doable.

 

The rest of the top 8

3rd

Dash - Lone Wolf, Rey, Counter Measures, Title, HLC

Lothal Rebel - Hera, Autoblaster, Gunner, FCS

 

4th

Dormitz - Hyper Wave Comm

Quickdraw and Backdraft with Hyperwave, Cruise Missiles and a bunch of other upgrades I’m not totally sure of. But suffice to say this list would jump you right at the start and maul you. Most people couldn’t escape it. 

 

5-8

Rey - Expertise, Sloop Title, Kanan, Finn

Miranda - 3p0, TLT, Bomblet, LRS

 

Torkil - TLT, Greedo, Moldy Crow Title

2x Lok Revenant - Deadeye, Harpoons, EM, GC, Autoblaster Turret

 

Biggs, Lowrick, Jess, Rex. Standard FSR, Lowie has Tactician. 

 

And the one list I didn’t see was Thweek, Lok revenant and something else which might have been a Khirazx. 

 

So lots of variety in the top 8 which is good. We had 18 Rebel, 13 Imperial and 12 Scum start day one and ended with 3/2/3 in the top 8. 

 

Definitely a fun tournament. 

Good showing!   What is unclear about the updated palp ruling?   This part has been added: After a ship rolls defense dice and before it resolves the effect of Lightweight Frame to roll an additional defense die, Palpatine can be used on the separate, additional defense die. Note that if Palpatine is used for the initial roll, he cannot affect the separate, additional defense die.

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1 hour ago, AlexW said:

Good showing!   What is unclear about the updated palp ruling?   This part has been added: After a ship rolls defense dice and before it resolves the effect of Lightweight Frame to roll an additional defense die, Palpatine can be used on the separate, additional defense die. Note that if Palpatine is used for the initial roll, he cannot affect the separate, additional defense die.

The questions is what happens if you have Blank + Evade (first 2 dice) and then use palp for LWF die and call an EVADE and you actually roll an evade with LWF. Do you have 2 or 3 now.

I am in the camp that says 3. :)

Edited by xstormtrooperx

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3 hours ago, xstormtrooperx said:

The questions is what happens if you have Blank + Evade (first 2 dice) and then use palp for LWF die and call an EVADE and you actually roll an evade with LWF. Do you have 2 or 3 now.

I am in the camp that says 3. :)

2 as Palp only affects the die being rolled.

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6 minutes ago, Estarriol said:

News of the lists in the cut would be great, if anyone knows!

I got some news from other sources but am not sure if everything is correct:

Winner - Dengar/Nym

Runner up - triple scurrg with harpoons (I believe that one was ps1, 2 were PS3 with deadeye, and 2 had autoblasters)

Top 4 - Lowhrrick/Kanan and Han/Miranda

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24 minutes ago, Estarriol said:

News of the lists in the cut would be great, if anyone knows!

Shamless plug here... i’m trying to get all Top16 lists here in my blog. I’m still missing some. I’ll keep updating the post as soon as I get more info.

https://septimotercio.blogspot.com.es/2017/11/listas-top-16-nacional-x-wing-de-belgica.html?m=1

P.D The lists are in English, but the blog is in Spanish

Edited by RoockieBoy
Forgot to add link

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6 hours ago, AlexW said:

Good showing!   What is unclear about the updated palp ruling?   This part has been added: After a ship rolls defense dice and before it resolves the effect of Lightweight Frame to roll an additional defense die, Palpatine can be used on the separate, additional defense die. Note that if Palpatine is used for the initial roll, he cannot affect the separate, additional defense die.

Again it’s not about the rule in particular. I’ve been playing that way mostly (except when I was helping to test for Aussie Nats and they were using the most beneficial rule for LWF). I was talking about my experience with Palp and LWF and how it actually is quite frustrating. Like Palp as worded is still a sure thing, you just have to make an early commitment, but with LWF it’s way more like a gamble. 

 

Anyway what is unclear in the FAQ is that they didn’t explicitly state what happens when you choose to Palp before the LWF roll. They said when you Palp before the first roll that you can’t affect the LWF dice but they didn’t say the same about the LWF dice. Because the Palp card still can change one of the ships dice, not dice just rolled but dice in the pool then technically when you Palp before the LWF result you can still affect all dice in the pool. 

Now is it implied that it is the other way? Pretty much, and that is how the judges ruled it at NZ Nats. But it would have been nice if in the FAQ they made that crystal clear given that was one of the major rules clarifications people were clamouring for. 

For my part though, and this is way of fun topic now, it really feels like LWF was created when Palp was a standard modification. The current ruling (or at least what we played under if you do think there is a debate) suggests that judges and designers just really haven’t stresstested the interaction because it is highly frustrating. I think the way they change Palp is certainly better for the game but I really would have just preferred an errata to LWF that says you roll the dice together. It solves so many more issues. “When you would roll less defence dice than there are in the current pool of attack dice, add 1 Defence dice”. Or something like that. 

Anyway, this is a major diversion from the topic. My point was not actually about the rule but the frustration of needed to Palp with Quickdraw but not necessarily getting much out of it, which was an experience that came up a lot over the course of the 9 games and I felt like it was interesting because as we play more games with the FAQ this probably won’t be an uncommon experience. 

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