Is Imperial Assault in trouble?

[draco193 491]

So over on the Armada forums there is a leaked release about a new FFG ground assault game

We'll likely hear more about it tomorrow. But I do think if the game falls into the 28mm size it will take a lot of wind out of skirmishes sails.  Anyone have any thoughts to the contrary?

[ManateeX 1,293]

3 minutes ago, draco193 said:

So over on the Armada forums there is a leaked release about a new FFG ground assault game

We'll likely hear more about it tomorrow. But I do think if the game falls into the 28mm size it will take a lot of wind out of skirmishes sails.  Anyone have any thoughts to the contrary?

Just like Armada took the wind out of X-Wing's sails?

Assuming this is really a thing, I'm sure there will be people who prefer that sort of game system.  Presumably, though, a lot of the people that like those games are already playing Warhammer or the new Runewars or whatever and never got into Imperial Assault.  Personally I have no desire to ever bring out a ruler at a gaming table, so I'll be giving this new one a pass.

There's also the fact that people who are big into IA skirmish already own a whole bunch of content, while this new Legion game would have them starting from scratch (with all the cash requirements that come from that).

I guess what I'm saying is that this is a cool announcement.  It's just not something I'm personally interested in, and I'm thinking that there will be others who prefer the IA style and are in the same boat.

[RoyalRich 319]

Yea doesn't do it for me personally and imperial assault is much more " star wars " for me than the larger scale assaults but I'm sure it'll do well. 

 

Hope very much it doesn't take away from imperial assault though

[Sk3tch 571]

7 minutes ago, RoyalRich said:

Hope very much it doesn't take away from imperial assault though

Knowing them I'm sure Legion will have the IA skirmish fix in in it. 

I jest, I'm half cautiously hyped about it. 

[mellowthello 70]

I wouldn't doom and gloom just yet based on rumors. That said, I really don't need another FFG game with a Star Wars skin on it. After a certain point, it feels really trite.

Edited August 17, 2017 by mellowthello

[TauntaunScout 4,276]

It is rarer than it once was for companies to accidentally kill their own product lines by releasing a competing game.  I'm hoping the games are semi-compatible. That being said, mass combat Star Wars miniatures games are the whole reason I ever cared about the greater RPG/wargame hobby at all. So if this is true I'm going to be very interested to see what they do. I have no hope that the figures won't be scale-creeped like the rest of the industry. I do hope the game itself isn't army-creeped though and it uses armies of between 6 and 60 miniatures. 

[TauntaunScout 4,276]

Any news yet on whether or not they are incompatible scale-wise? I think the IA ones are too big, so, I'm hoping these ones aren't even bigger than that.

[Tysonk28 6]

They are

edit: Bigger that is

Edited August 26, 2017 by Tysonk28

[beefcake4000 371]

I think its an interesting question and I guess we will wait and see. I know that despite what some people are saying the numbers of players doing skirmish has dwindled across the board since Jabbas realm, a stale meta is going to do that. I applaud those trying to find ways around it but we all know this next wave is going to have to be amazing to balance it out again... At best it will just bring some things back into the fold but there are sooo many past units/characters that are just beyond redemption, fixes for individuals is a step in the right direction but post legion I expect too little to late. 

Personally I love skirmish and will continue with it as long as it lasts but I don't expect it will last long unless Legions turns out to be rubbish. If Legions is fast and well balanced I'd see alot of players jumping over to that because it will be a cheaper buy in for new players and a more interesting time for many players who are tired of endless rounds of hunters. 

I read a post the other day that I reckon nailed it IMO, IA campaign will live on happily but skirmish is in real trouble. Given that we know that skirmish was an afterthought from day 1 and how inconsistent the releases have been in terms of improving skirmish I guess we can't be suprised if the only ones holding the candle will be a dedicated core of players. For those of you wondering what I mean by inconsistent I mean that we started with the abortion that was the 4/4, which made trooper spam look amazing by comparison only to watch that get replaced by cut/paste hunters etc etc... They never actually seem to 'fix' (as in balance) the meta, just replace the newest hotness with the next hotness by completely crushing the previous. 

At this stage I would have expected us to see a way for troopers to be just as competitive as hunters and jedi builds etc but until that happens this game is dying as a competitive skirmish option. Legion will probably just finish it off. 

[TheUnsullied 328]

4 hours ago, beefcake4000 said:

For those of you wondering what I mean by inconsistent I mean that we started with the abortion that was the 4/4, which made trooper spam look amazing by comparison only to watch that get replaced by cut/paste hunters etc etc... They never actually seem to 'fix' (as in balance) the meta, just replace the newest hotness with the next hotness by completely crushing the previous.

You realize that's exactly what the definition of meta is right?

 

Most

Effective

Tactics

Available

 

Of course there are always going to be some lists that stand out more than others but in all of those periods you talked about(aside from 4x4 because I didn't play then and can't speak to it) there are still other lists that are competitive and take wins.

 

The Reddit tourney that just ended was won by @ryanjamal with a rebel list featuring Jedi Luke. Now part of that probably has to do with his familiarity and skill with his list but it's silly to talk like nothing else can compete right now. Also the Gencon nationals just finished and were won by none other than a freaking Ugnaught Swarm. If you had predicted that a couple weeks ago on the forums you would have been laughed at by most people. 

 

I don't think they sky is falling in any sense. We are about to get another large expansion that will hopefully improve diversity even more so that we can see more fun and interesting lists pop up.

 

[beefcake4000 371]

1 hour ago, TheUnsullied said:

You realize that's exactly what the definition of meta is right?

 

Most

Effective

Tactics

Available

 

Of course there are always going to be some lists that stand out more than others but in all of those periods you talked about(aside from 4x4 because I didn't play then and can't speak to it) there are still other lists that are competitive and take wins.

 

The Reddit tourney that just ended was won by @ryanjamal with a rebel list featuring Jedi Luke. Now part of that probably has to do with his familiarity and skill with his list but it's silly to talk like nothing else can compete right now. Also the Gencon nationals just finished and were won by none other than a freaking Ugnaught Swarm. If you had predicted that a couple weeks ago on the forums you would have been laughed at by most people. 

 

I don't think they sky is falling in any sense. We are about to get another large expansion that will hopefully improve diversity even more so that we can see more fun and interesting lists pop up.

 

 

I don't disagree with any of what you've said any more than I can argue with the declining numbers turning up to events... If that's not happening in your area then that's brilliant, I wish I could say the same. 

Given that Jedi Luke/E-rangers is about the only list that seems to win anything other than scum at the moment though I reckon you'll need a better argument to convince anyone else to jump into our game and that's before Legion... 

[TheUnsullied 328]

3 hours ago, beefcake4000 said:

 

I don't disagree with any of what you've said any more than I can argue with the declining numbers turning up to events... If that's not happening in your area then that's brilliant, I wish I could say the same. 

Given that Jedi Luke/E-rangers is about the only list that seems to win anything other than scum at the moment though I reckon you'll need a better argument to convince anyone else to jump into our game and that's before Legion... 

Ugnaught Swarm?

[ryanjamal 1,229]

HotE will bring balance to the force. Patience we must have ?. 

I think we're about to see the greatest variety in list building we've seen yet with the game. 

-ryanjamal 

[Fightwookies 1,081]

5 hours ago, ryanjamal said:

HotE will bring balance to the force. Patience we must have ?. 

I think we're about to see the greatest variety in list building we've seen yet with the game. 

-ryanjamal 

That's the thing. A game that comes in waves like this is never going to be perfectly balanced at any point. I think they've made some drastic improvements to the skirmish format since the early waves.

If you're not a fan of the Hunters (and many aren't), I get that. Hunters lists are going to be strong for a while, but they're also not going to really get any better with the next release. That's the established power curve. I'm really excited to see how HotE is going to bring some other lists up to that level. I don't think expecting the game to be perfectly balanced at any point is all that reasonable. They have a plan in place and a roadmap to get there. Things that are out now have planned synergy with future releases, so some things that seem useless now won't be in the future. Jabba's Realm was released when they had an idea of what was coming in HotE and at least the droid wave, if not more. 

[TauntaunScout 4,276]

I have always been of the impression that Imperial Assault Skirmish was sort of a "bonus game" that is included when you buy their space opera dungeoncrawl. I am not surprised that it caught on and did well as it's own thing but I am also not going to be surprised if support for it becomes minimal. Seemed to me, when I read the rulebook, was that skirmish was meant for a situation where no one has the organizational resources necessary to be the imperial player, or when only two members of the group can make it that night.

I am really annoyed that the scale creep continues. What the heck? "You play with this game with MORE figures, therefore each figure is more expensive and harder to paint." No, thank you. Oh but who am I kidding? If they release Hoth armies for it, I'll buy them.

[Fightwookies 1,081]

5 hours ago, TauntaunScout said:

I have always been of the impression that Imperial Assault Skirmish was sort of a "bonus game" that is included when you buy their space opera dungeoncrawl. I am not surprised that it caught on and did well as it's own thing but I am also not going to be surprised if support for it becomes minimal. Seemed to me, when I read the rulebook, was that skirmish was meant for a situation where no one has the organizational resources necessary to be the imperial player, or when only two members of the group can make it that night.

I am really annoyed that the scale creep continues. What the heck? "You play with this game with MORE figures, therefore each figure is more expensive and harder to paint." No, thank you. Oh but who am I kidding? If they release Hoth armies for it, I'll buy them.

What Hoth armies are you referring to?

There is a Hoth expansion. It has Wampas, imperial Snowtroopers, then you can get the rebel Echo Base Troopers in a blister pack.

[Mep 2,291]

Well I feel IA is the better game, certainly more accessible. However, those that really like miniatures and building terrain will be all over Legion. It is also the fresh new thing, so yeah, it will have momentum at first. Eventually though, the miniature players will be the ones playing that game and not anyone else really. Miniature games are more a life style than a game, or at the very least, a big hobby.

Eventually the accessibility of IA will hold its own.

[VAYASAN 850]

Well ive only been into FFG games since February (when I discovered them) and I love IA.

I absolutely cant wait for Legion..but I have no intention to shelf IA, I love IA, I cant see why I and others cant play both?

[ryanjamal 1,229]

24 minutes ago, VAYASAN said:

Well ive only been into FFG games since February (when I discovered them) and I love IA.

I absolutely cant wait for Legion..but I have no intention to shelf IA, I love IA, I cant see why I and others cant play both?

No!  You must choose!  Legion demands that all IA boxes be charred and surrendered to flame on the pyres of your allegiance!

-ryanjamal

[Uninvited Guest 834]

On 8/28/2017 at 4:32 PM, Fightwookies said:

What Hoth armies are you referring to?

There is a Hoth expansion. It has Wampas, imperial Snowtroopers, then you can get the rebel Echo Base Troopers in a blister pack.

I think he was referring to Legion in his second paragraph.

[squirrelfox 67]

6 hours ago, VAYASAN said:

Well ive only been into FFG games since February (when I discovered them) and I love IA.

I absolutely cant wait for Legion..but I have no intention to shelf IA, I love IA, I cant see why I and others cant play both?

Cost. I only have so much money I can realistically spend on games. Every competitive, ongoing game I get into is in direct competition for a portion of that budget. IA, X-Wing, Armada, and Legion are all expensive games. That's why I only play one of them.

[VAYASAN 850]

1 minute ago, squirrelfox said:

Cost. I only have so much money I can realistically spend on games. Every competitive, ongoing game I get into is in direct competition for a portion of that budget. IA, X-Wing, Armada, and Legion are all expensive games. That's why I only play one of them.

Its Star Wars.

 

Cut back on food, heating and.....

[Tvboy 3,529]

On 8/30/2017 at 7:39 AM, VAYASAN said:

Well ive only been into FFG games since February (when I discovered them) and I love IA.

I absolutely cant wait for Legion..but I have no intention to shelf IA, I love IA, I cant see why I and others cant play both?

In addition to financial barriers, time restriction is also a huge factor as well. How common is it for people that have enough expendable income to buy both games to also have a ton of free time as well? People with enough disposable income to own two very similar games are also likely to own other games as well, further cutting into their available playing time. Every hour spent building, painting and playing Legion is time that might have been used to play IA skirmish. And if you're a busy gamer, if you've carved out time in your week for Legion, are you going to want to spend your remaining game time in your week on a  similar game experience in IA, or get some variety and play the other games in your collection like Armada or MTG or whatever?

I think a lot of people are going to own both Legion and IA, but in reality they're not going to have enough time to play both equally, and which game is more likely to be set aside, the old or the new? Right now we are struggling just to get IA players to show up to the table and play, if they're playing Legion it's just going to make that harder.  

[Red Castle 3,875]

14 minutes ago, Tvboy said:

 

I think a lot of people are going to own both Legion and IA, but in reality they're not going to have enough time to play both equally, and which game is more likely to be set aside, the old or the new? Right now we are struggling just to get IA players to show up to the table and play, if they're playing Legion it's just going to make that harder.  

It depends. An IA game is what? 60 minutes? A Legion game will probably be over 2 hours, like Armada.

I know that it is a factor for me. It's easier for me to fit an Imperial Assault, Destiny or X-Wing game than it is for Armada. That's why I hardly play Armada anymore and why I won't buy into Legion. I just don't have the time.

[Tvboy 3,529]

1 hour ago, Red Castle said:

It depends. An IA game is what? 60 minutes? A Legion game will probably be over 2 hours, like Armada.

I know that it is a factor for me. It's easier for me to fit an Imperial Assault, Destiny or X-Wing game than it is for Armada. That's why I hardly play Armada anymore and why I won't buy into Legion. I just don't have the time.

I was just using Armada as a filler example, replace with Destiny, X-Wing, Magic, Rebellion, Pokemon, whatever, my point is that Legion and IA are going to feel similar enough to someone that owns both that if they also play a 3rd game, that 3rd game will probably be more attractive than IA after playing Legion. 

But I think you're post is similar to many others I've seen since the announcement, which is that IA players might not be the target audience for Legion. I'm hopeful that Legion will be a Warhammer killer instead and IA players will just stick with IA.