Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
RyonOlson

Double Liberty With Leia

16 posts in this topic

So, I've been theory-crafting a fleet for the past couple months ever since I first proxied Commander Leia. I wanted to use her in a double Liberty list that met the following criteria:

1. Have maximum usage out of blue dice.

2. Could be decently effective with 4 activations.

3. Didn't require lots of fighters to work.

This is the result:

 

Double Liberty Leia 
Author: jameslangley2017

Faction: Rebel Alliance
Points: 400/400  

Commander: Leia Organa

Assault Objective: Opening Salvo
Defense Objective: Planetary Ion Cannon
Navigation Objective: Dangerous Territory

 

MC80 Star Cruiser (96 points)
-  Mon Karren  ( 8  points) 
-  Gunnery Team  ( 7  points) 
-  Engine Techs  ( 8  points) 
-  X17 Turbolasers  ( 6  points) 
-  Quad Battery Turrets  ( 5  points) 
-  Leading Shots  ( 4  points) 
= 134 total ship cost

 

[ flagship ] MC80 Star Cruiser (96 points)
-  Leia Organa  ( 38  points) 
-  Endeavor  ( 4  points) 
-  Flight Controllers  ( 6  points) 
-  Nav Team  ( 4  points) 
-  X17 Turbolasers  ( 6  points) 
-  Quad Battery Turrets  ( 5  points) 
-  Leading Shots  ( 4  points) 
= 163 total ship cost

 

GR-75 Medium Transports (18 points)
-  Jamming Field  ( 2  points) 
= 20 total ship cost

 

GR-75 Medium Transports (18 points)
-  Toryn Farr  ( 7  points) 
-  Comms Net  ( 2  points) 
= 27 total ship cost

 

2 VCX-100 Freighters ( 30 points) 
1 Han Solo ( 26 points)

 

The plan is to run Mon Karren at speed 1-2 most of the game, using Engine techs to move faster, while keeping the ability to use the Quad Battery Turrets to get maximum use out of Leading Shots. Following it will be the Endeavor, keeping a similar speed to also get use out of the QBTs. This ship has the Nav Team to allow it a great amount of maneuverability comparable to a CR90. The GR-75 with the Jamming Field will run around with the VCXs, making sure that they can survive a few extra hits. The Endeavor is set up to give them a boost to firepower to pick off weaker fighters, or give a little scare to heavier ones and aces. The second GR-75 is there to feed tokens to either Star Cruiser, and to give them a boost to their dice with Toryn. Han is there to harass other fighters that get too close to the Star Cruisers.

Comments and suggestions are always welcome.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I like it other than the fighter wing... anything beyond a minor fighter screen will give you major trouble, maybe try the equal amount of points in A wings and maybe one or both of their aces?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you like flight controllers then I would change Endeavour to the Liberty title but you really should have more fighters to use it properly. with only 3 squadrons or 4-5 if you go for A-wings/Z95s you should probably get another set of Gunnery teams and let the squadron commanding be done by the flotillas.

Only 2 ships will benefit from Opening Salvo and an enemy player with 5 ships will relish it as even Gozantis go to a 4 Dice volley with a CF dial. Most wanted (or advanced gunnery if you don't go for GTs on the second MC80s) would be better.

RyonOlson and MandalorianMoose like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, anonymousguy said:

Not putting Gunnery teams on a liberty is committing a crime.

I've never put Gunnery Teams on my Liberties.

 

Ruthless Strats, once.

But more often, Fire Control Team.

 

And I've never really wanted for Gunnery Team, either.

 

Fire Control + Ion Cannon Batteries + XX-9s + XI7s are generally getting the job done for me.

itzSteve, BrobaFett and RyonOlson like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What I meant was not putting a weapons team that actually does something with a Liberty's attack is a crime. Flight Controllers would be better off on a Hammerhead than a Liberty.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Comms Net doesn't play nice with Leia though... if you send the Comms Net token then you can't get the Leia effect on the transport for that turn, and when the receiving ship spends the comms Net token, it can't use the Leia effect that turn. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It doesn't exactly work great with Garm either, the ship can't send tokens because all the other ships are already full of command tokens.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks everyone for the suggestions. Some of the issues you pointed out are ones I overlooked, since I don't usually play at 400 points (500 is almost always the minimum).

On August 17, 2017 at 10:01 AM, anonymousguy said:

Not putting Gunnery teams on a liberty is committing a crime.

I rarely get enough use out of Gunnery Teams on one ship, so I didn't exactly want to spend the extra points for an upgrade I most likely won't use.

On August 17, 2017 at 3:12 AM, Mad Cat said:

If you like flight controllers then I would change Endeavour to the Liberty title but you really should have more fighters to use it properly. with only 3 squadrons or 4-5 if you go for A-wings/Z95s you should probably get another set of Gunnery teams and let the squadron commanding be done by the flotillas.

Only 2 ships will benefit from Opening Salvo and an enemy player with 5 ships will relish it as even Gozantis go to a 4 Dice volley with a CF dial. Most wanted (or advanced gunnery if you don't go for GTs on the second MC80s) would be better.

I considered the Liberty Title, but I wanted my flagship to be a little more survivable, so I stuck with Endeavor. I only need the two fighter activations from it. I'd take Z-95s if I had better results in using them. I don't care for A-wings unless it is Tycho and Shara, but I also don't get as much use out of them as I should.

I'll consider switching Opening Salvo out for Most Wanted, so I won't be at a disadvantage if my opponent chooses the Red Objective.

 

On August 17, 2017 at 10:04 AM, Drasnighta said:

I've never put Gunnery Teams on my Liberties.

 

Ruthless Strats, once.

But more often, Fire Control Team.

 

And I've never really wanted for Gunnery Team, either.

 

Fire Control + Ion Cannon Batteries + XX-9s + XI7s are generally getting the job done for me.

This is an idea I can get behind. I'll have to try it out at some point.

 

On August 18, 2017 at 0:00 AM, Rettere said:

Dual Liberty will get almost the same benefit from Garm/Ashoka as from Leia, for 11 fewer points...

This is true, but I wanted to build a Double Liberty that has Leia. I do use the Garm/Ashoka combo from time to time.

 

13 hours ago, Rettere said:

Comms Net doesn't play nice with Leia though... if you send the Comms Net token then you can't get the Leia effect on the transport for that turn, and when the receiving ship spends the comms Net token, it can't use the Leia effect that turn. 

I agree with the flotilla command. Though, in my area, the consensus is that until a FAQ states otherwise tokens stack with Leia's ability. So, the Comms Net is still usable. It's there to make sure the Liberties get maximum usage out their commands.

 

Finally, something important I forgot to mention in the initial post: The VCXs are needed for Strategic.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When I first saw this list, I thought you might be trying to do for the Rebels what the North American Champs Runner-up (dual ISD) list did for the Empire. A couple features of that list that might bear some thought: 1) There were no flotillas, 2) The ISD's were generalists that could shoot, run squads, etc... 3) The squadron group was quite potent.

Now, the MC80L isn't an ISD. But the Liberty title with Commander Leia lets you hit with 4 squads. So Liberty can be a generalist if you want to follow the theme of the successful Imperial version of a low activation list.

If your aim with this list is to run a dual MC80L list with Leia Organa, then you might want to consider paring that concept to the bone. Specifically, if you ditch the flotillas (heresy!), you'll have more room for a bigger squadron group and you'll probably STILL be able to command all of them with your MC80L's. The VCX's seem like they are there so you can shuffle the Planetary Ion Cannon tokens and (maybe) provide Relay 1 so you don't have to put your flotillas in harm's way. What if you didn't need objective manipulation or Relay? Could you put those 30 squadron points toward a more offensive squad group? Without the flotillas, you'd have 102 points to play with to make a squadron group and a bid. 85-90 points in squadrons is squarely in the "medium-sized" squad group category and leaves you a competitive bid for first (which you probably sort of need with a 2-ship list).  A Liberty-led squadron alpha with Dutch+Wedge+"others" is no joke, especially with Toryn Farr in the area. A-wings can also sort of take care of themselves without activating because of counter, plus they are cheap and have a nice black anti-ship die if you need to bomb with them.

These comments come from something I have been trying to do the last couple of weeks: run a two-ship MC80L+MC80H list successfully. It isn't there yet, partly because these two ships sort of get in one another's way, partly because neither ship has been decked out as a generalist yet, partly because my squadron group isn't performing how I like. But I think a dual MC80L list could at least fix the first two problems.

Just some things to think about.

Edited by RobertK
Tiberius the Killer likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 8/17/2017 at 0:04 PM, Drasnighta said:

I've never put Gunnery Teams on my Liberties.

 

Ruthless Strats, once.

But more often, Fire Control Team.

 

And I've never really wanted for Gunnery Team, either.

 

Fire Control + Ion Cannon Batteries + XX-9s + XI7s are generally getting the job done for me.

ICB, XX-9s + Dodonna were complete overkill for my MC80. Gunnery Teams did the full job all on it's on. Popping Demo, generic Raider 1, and during the next round finishing off an Arquitens and damaging a Quasar...the XX-9s+Dodanna procc'd but didn't even need to be used. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, eliteone said:

ICB, XX-9s + Dodonna were complete overkill for my MC80. Gunnery Teams did the full job all on it's on. Popping Demo, generic Raider 1, and during the next round finishing off an Arquitens and damaging a Quasar...the XX-9s+Dodanna procc'd but didn't even need to be used. 

Against Bullyable targets, syre...  But that's what Gladiators, Demos, Raiders, Quasars and Arquitens are :D

You need more teeth against that ISD, even if you are scalping side/rear arcs.

eliteone likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My 2 cents, although mostly just theory crafting.

Most obvious problem with this fleet is a big weakness to fighters. These 2 large ships will get eaten alive, particularly if you plan on going speed 1 and 2 as you stated.

Second problem I see is the potential lack of synergy with the commander and upgrade cards. Remember that using Leia means you can not use regular tokens. And not using Leia on any turn is a huge waste of points given she is only really affecting 2 ships.

  • For instance, with engine techs, this means you need to use a nav dial, in which case Leia doesn't add anything except letting you go from speed 1 to 3 or visa versa. Yet going speed 3 directly inhibits your QBT. The alternative way to activate the engine techs is to spend a nav token, but this means you are blocking Leia for a turn. Garm or Madine would work better.
  • Nav Teams is in a similar boat, although it acts like a mini-madine at speed 2 and 3 and thus is decent, actually pretty good at these speeds. However it does nothing at our 'optimal' speed 1, and again Garm might be better. Alternatively if you plan on spamming Nav dials, Madine might work better instead of nav teams and Leia.
  • Don't put XI7 on Mon Karren. There has been many a debate on this, and the bottom line is: XI7 is an expensive upgrade for not much gain. Or keep XI7 and drop Mon Karren.
  • I prefer Gunnery teams on the Battle Cruiser. Longer range means wider threat area and extra black anti-squadron means a better front attack vs squadrons if you prefer to (or need to) use your second attack this way.
  • Comms Nets. Leia can not use tokens.
  • Flight Controllers, expensive for only 3 ships per turn, and forces use of squad dials, which given your squads won't be achieving all that much you are better off using another command. Also your flotilla would be better suited to commanding the squads and Han and Rogue thus can command himself
  • Jamming Field, nice idea to keep your tiny screen alive, but hard countered by intel as will backfire boosting their survivability.

 

Suggestions:

  • Number 1 is get officers on your MC80s. The Liasons are great with Leia, as it means you can spend a token you can use anyway to pull the command you want. A bargain at 3 points each. Lando and Walex are also great options.
  • Consider removing QBT and Leading shots. Replace QBT with DTT. Removing QBT frees your ships up to moving speeds 2 and 3, this makes Nav teams and Engine techs much more versatile, while also improving surivability. DTT means you can correct poor red or blue dice results, Torryn corrects poor blue results. C.F dials with Leia also give another re-roll should you need it. 4 blue dice plus 1 or 2 re-rolls means you may want a blue crit effect.
  • Change Han and the VCXs to more efficient fighters, like Zs or As. Actually forget Z's, just A's. Because A's are faster, thus can keep up with speed 3, and use blue dice and blue counter dice for maximum Torryn efficiency. Consider the Liberty title, with or without flight controllers. Remove Jamming fields.
  • Change opening salvo to most wanted. No question there. May need to review other objectives also if changing play-style from low speed to high speed and removing strategic.
  • Save points by trimming gunnery teams, comms net, either Mon Karen or XI7 and flight controllers on a ship that isn't Liberty.
  • Bright hope can protect Torryn, while Quantum Storm can help reposition Torryn to keep in range of the MC80s.

 

Something like this:

http://armadawarlords.hivelabs.solutions/view_list.php?token=132949&key=5f2ba8f40f9f75bbfabca1d41e56dac0

13 points left for bid, upgrades- Gunnery team, Ion cannons, Flight controllers, Repair crew, another A-wing, upgrading to Combat Flotilla (for the blue anti-squadron, with Torryn re-rolls), etc.

Objectives could change, but picked Most wanted for obvious reasons, Capture VIP, for 2nd turn pick-up, which will be hard to kill going speed 3+1, and Solar Corona to fix the likely activation disadvantage, plus the MC80s can swing wide into the Corona and fight coming away from it. Liberty's hate accuracy, so win-win.

Edited by Divad

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0