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Kieransi

Is this game as fun as the FFG RPGs?

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I never played the original (because I wasn't born when it came out), so I guess I don't know much about this game except that it started the extended universe, and gave the names and backgrounds to stuff that we now consider "common knowledge" of the Star Wars universe, like Twi'leks, Rodians, etc.

So anyway, I don't really have any nostalgia at stake here, but I'm wondering if those of you who have played this game think it's as fun as the FFG games?

My friends and I have been really enjoying playing EotE, but for us it's more of a social thing (not a super intense gaming experience), and we all care about the story above all else (we'd rather tell a good story than get bogged down in all kinds of numbers, stats, and complicated dice rolling), so sometimes the "narrative dice" system can be a little tedious (it also can be difficult for newer players to even understand). I feel like this game might be perfect for our playstyle, but I'd like to hear more about whether it's stood the test of time. I also think the pricetag looks quite reasonable compared to most modern RPG core rulebooks!

Any thoughts/opinions?

Edited by Kieransi
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It's a matter of personal taste. Some systems work for different people and different groups. Most here will probably say FFG's version is better, while others will swear by this one. Some fans made an updated PDF of these rules (or, rather, the revised second edition rules), if you want to try the system. I forget what it's called; REUP? Maybe.

Remember, this product is an anniversary collector's edition, and I think it's limited time.

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It's predecessor to West End Games d6 system (d6 Adventure). My, subjective, opinion is that it's easier to get into then EotE and similar FFGs Star Wars RPGs. Base system is "Roll a number of d6s equal to your skill, sum them and roll equal to or over target number". There ware 6 attributes and (in second edition at least) solid list of skills that ware based on those attributes. Without going into too much details, attributes ware somewhat different to "standard" D&D-ish approach. :)

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It's a matter of taste, but the WEG Star Wars was spectacular.  Extraordinarily simple and out when a time when there was no "fat" on the Star Wars mythology.  WEG Star Wars BUILT the Expanded Universe that we grew up with (and watch destroyed).  

It was an elegant system for a more civilized age.  

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Thanks for the advice, everyone! I have a number of friends who swear by the d6 system, and I have plenty of d6's lying around from various Axis and Allies games, so I'm going to see if my friends want to give it a shot! I feel like $60 isn't really that high of an investment in a game, and from all I've seen it looks like a great way to get back to the best of Star Wars (as opposed to the very uneven Dark Horse and Marvel versions of the EU...)

Sure, I know this is a collector's edition and I could probably buy the original or download a PDF for less money, but I know FFG does a great job on their printing and binding, so having a nice sturdy book that'll survive being lugged around in my backpack seems like a pretty good deal! 

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2 minutes ago, Kieransi said:

Thanks for the advice, everyone! I have a number of friends who swear by the d6 system, and I have plenty of d6's lying around from various Axis and Allies games, so I'm going to see if my friends want to give it a shot! I feel like $60 isn't really that high of an investment in a game, and from all I've seen it looks like a great way to get back to the best of Star Wars (as opposed to the very uneven Dark Horse and Marvel versions of the EU...)

Sure, I know this is a collector's edition and I could probably buy the original or download a PDF for less money, but I know FFG does a great job on their printing and binding, so having a nice sturdy book that'll survive being lugged around in my backpack seems like a pretty good deal! 

Yeah, FFG quality is spectacular, that is why this is a must buy for me even though I still have all of my WEG books and wouldn't actually *need* these.  But when was "need" ever taken into consideration for this hobby?

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2 hours ago, Mikica said:

It's predecessor to West End Games d6 system (d6 Adventure). My, subjective, opinion is that it's easier to get into then EotE and similar FFGs Star Wars RPGs. Base system is "Roll a number of d6s equal to your skill, sum them and roll equal to or over target number". There ware 6 attributes and (in second edition at least) solid list of skills that ware based on those attributes. Without going into too much details, attributes ware somewhat different to "standard" D&D-ish approach. :)

I'm still a little shaky on running EotE because the narrative system is so vastly different from any other system I've played and when I think "Star Wars RPG" I think WEG.  I constantly want to run the game in WEG style but that doesn't work with a narrative dice system.

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35 minutes ago, Kieransi said:

Thanks for the advice, everyone! I have a number of friends who swear by the d6 system, and I have plenty of d6's lying around from various Axis and Allies games, so I'm going to see if my friends want to give it a shot! I feel like $60 isn't really that high of an investment in a game, and from all I've seen it looks like a great way to get back to the best of Star Wars (as opposed to the very uneven Dark Horse and Marvel versions of the EU...)

Sure, I know this is a collector's edition and I could probably buy the original or download a PDF for less money, but I know FFG does a great job on their printing and binding, so having a nice sturdy book that'll survive being lugged around in my backpack seems like a pretty good deal! 

I still have the original copies of these books (I'm still going to get the new ones, because) and they are still holding up after 30 years of gaming.

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2 hours ago, Kieransi said:

 I know FFG does a great job on their printing and binding, so having a nice sturdy book that'll survive being lugged around in my backpack seems like a pretty good deal! 

You obviously didn't buy an early copy of Dark Heresy 2e. One of the crappiest quality bindings I have ever seen in a book.

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3 hours ago, n107 said:

I'm still a little shaky on running EotE because the narrative system is so vastly different from any other system I've played and when I think "Star Wars RPG" I think WEG.  I constantly want to run the game in WEG style but that doesn't work with a narrative dice system.

Give it a shot; I was too but I ran the Beginner's Box and we all learned it together. It's strange how the dice/crunch can open up the narrative. I'm not saying it's for everyone or guarantee you'll love it, but it definitely hooked me and I feel it captures the essence of SW.

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46 minutes ago, stuffedskullcat said:

Give it a shot; I was too but I ran the Beginner's Box and we all learned it together. It's strange how the dice/crunch can open up the narrative. I'm not saying it's for everyone or guarantee you'll love it, but it definitely hooked me and I feel it captures the essence of SW.

I actually have been running it off and on for about 2 years.  Although it has gotten smoother over time it doesn't come as natural to me as more traditional systems.  A lot of the tricks of the trade I've used in the past just doesn't work with the narrative system. I still enjoy it but it feels foreign to me. 

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I own all of the SW books FFG ever published and stumbled recently over the WEG 2nd revised and updated version. I just skimmed a bit through it, went over the introductionary Solo adventure at the beginning (the probe droid slaughtered me) and have to say, it intruiged me so far. I see much of what is common to the "newer" RPGs so too me it does not appear that old school.

Some of my group who were able to play WEG D6 in its heyday, but also like FFGs version are still enthused about the D6 version, calling it the best SW RPG to date.

Now I'm torn between giving WEG D6 a shot or stay with FFGs version for my next campaign. I feel comfortable with both approaches of gaming alike, D6 and narrative dice. What I lack is experience of playing the WEG version.

So to me some honest assessment would be invaluable from players who played both version thoroughly. Which is more fun to you? And maybe the reason why it is so would be enlightening to me as well. Please try to shut out the fact that one has no official support any more and no further official products being published. 

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My honest assessment is that liked WEG better as a system.  To me, it felt easier to control as a GM and it was, for all intents and purposes, rules light.  It felt easy to tweak things on the fly and add your own dashes of drama where needed, rather than relying on the dice to narrate these instances.   For example, rolling to see if anyone's Obligation is triggered at the start of a session, interpreting surprising Triumph/Despairs, etc.  

FFG's system feels very rules heavy to me, particularly in modding equipment/starships and so on.  These hardpoints and limits seem like they come from a more tactical, miniatures based game to me rather than an RPG which should only be limited by your imagination.  We had modifications on our starships in WEG that would be impossible to do if following the RAW in FFG.   

Yes, they're both RPGs and the GMs/players are free to tweak and ignore rules as needed but looking at the rules in FFGs system makes me uncomfortable in changing anything because I can't be sure if that would unbalance the system as a whole.  There are some aspects of the system that I would just ignore if I could, but ignoring those parts would then make some talents on various careers become useless.  So if I cut it, I'm handicapping any player that put points into talents that use systems I'd rather ignore.  On the flip side, if the player buys these talents, I now feel obliged to use those aspects of the game so the player doesn't feel like they wasted points on something useless.  There was never any of this worry in the old WEG system.  

On the flip side, however, the narrative dice in FFG helps to bring the players in on the story in ways that simply aren't possible in the standard WEG system.  FFG also incorporates ideas officially from the PT and, now, the ST (with The Force Awakens Beginner's Game).  In WEG, you'd have to make those up on your own.  But, I should say, it was a whole lot simpler making up new things on the fly in WEG and knowing how to balance them easily in comparison to the PCs.  

I am enjoying the FFG system, but when I run it I see its limitations compared to my years GMing the WEG Star Wars games.  FFG is a far more liberal game that adds the players' creativity in with the GMs to make a cooperative storytelling experience.  WEG is a far more traditional RPG that truly puts the GM in full control of the game and the players only have to focus on doing what they want without needing to play secondary world builder.  It all comes down to preference but I'm sticking with my quote from earlier in the thread:  WEG is "an elegant system for a more civilized age".  

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Purely my opinion of course, but I've played every SW rpg system published to date and none of them captured the feel of the setting even a 10th as well as the d6 system.

Most of the time my game groups would buy the new books and convert back to the d6 system.

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Oh, and I'd like to add that I really don't enjoy the starship combat in FFG.  It feels too slow and clunky.  Not only that but piloting itself doesn't seem that impressive.  In WEG, a pilot really got to shine when they got into the cockpit and they would do things no one else could do with just their simple piloting skill.  In FFG anyone can hop into the cockpit and perform equally based on their attribute.  The only way pilots become something special is if they buy impressive talents from their career tree.  Until then, there is nothing interesting about them.

The unhappiest player in my group (who eventually left) was the pilot.  He just never felt that piloting was fun.  I tried my best to make it as interesting as possible but it didn't seem fun to me, either, especially when I'd think back to how exciting it was to be a pilot in WEG.  

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Actually I think Traveller does a great job on space combat. It is my first choice for scifi settings were no kind of magic, biotocs and the force is involved. Though I am very curious of what Genesys might offer in that regard. 

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It's a solid system, and works pretty well on top of being fun.

The one drawback is that it really wasn't meant to be used for long-term campaigns, this an admission by the very writers themselves.  They pictured that folks would play characters for somewhere between 12 to 18 sessions, and then retire those characters once the major story arc had been completed.

So once you've had people playing the same characters for most of a year every week on a regular basis, you start getting characters that are incredibly hard to challenge within their particular niche without making the task nigh impossible for anyone outside that niche.

Another issue was Force users, who are far more versatile in what they can accomplish in contrast to how FFG handles them.  And if you play them long enough, the Jedi in the party become extremely powerful just from the sheer versatility of things they can do with the Force.

Space combat left a lot to be desired, but that seems to be a recurring issue with Star Wars RPGs in general.

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1 hour ago, Donovan Morningfire said:

It's a solid system, and works pretty well on top of being fun.

The one drawback is that it really wasn't meant to be used for long-term campaigns, this an admission by the very writers themselves.  They pictured that folks would play characters for somewhere between 12 to 18 sessions, and then retire those characters once the major story arc had been completed.

So once you've had people playing the same characters for most of a year every week on a regular basis, you start getting characters that are incredibly hard to challenge within their particular niche without making the task nigh impossible for anyone outside that niche.

Another issue was Force users, who are far more versatile in what they can accomplish in contrast to how FFG handles them.  And if you play them long enough, the Jedi in the party become extremely powerful just from the sheer versatility of things they can do with the Force.

Space combat left a lot to be desired, but that seems to be a recurring issue with Star Wars RPGs in general.

While in some points i agree with you. Longevity was never an issue in the campaigns that i ran with D6 system. Mostly due to varying emphasis in skill pools and challenges. My meaning is while you play to the characters strengths also tax their weak skill in a combination of mind coupled with those lacking skills. I tried to hit a number of skill challenges during a session so the player did feel he/she needed more than dodge and blaster etc.

The use of a broad spectrum of force powers is not a challenging to wield as force using players become more powerful. First a jedi does suppose to be kick *** but their are plenty of ways to level playing field. IE stormtroopers tend to attack en mass lol. You will find the lightsaber combat force power taxed when attacked by multiple foes. Their are ways to achieve balance and let players be challenged while playing significant characters.

Space combat well i have to disagree entirely. I try to encourage all my players to be expressive so when it comes to space combat it isn't just you fly he fly ok you shoot. I want them to be creative. I want to try a hard bank and see if i can pull up on their tail. Ok roll a difficult ok, you succeed but the strain on the maneuverability propulsion has dropped them off line. You got one shot at this. Ok cool i have a good feeling about this, i send the copilot back to make repairs while i try to dust this tie fighter.

It's all in the narrative rather than the blocky FFG one and the forced narrative dice that at many times is unwieldy or just inappropriate.

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On 2017-08-16 at 4:39 PM, Kieransi said:

So anyway, I don't really have any nostalgia at stake here, but I'm wondering if those of you who have played this game think it's as fun as the FFG games?

Before EotE I would have said it's a solid game.  Now, not so much.  It doesn't scale well.  Granted I didn't play a lot of D6, but when I tried it was clunky...less clunky than, say D&D4, but still.  EotE, by comparison, has been a godsend to GM with.

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29 minutes ago, whafrog said:

Before EotE I would have said it's a solid game.  Now, not so much.  It doesn't scale well.  Granted I didn't play a lot of D6, but when I tried it was clunky...less clunky than, say D&D4, but still.  EotE, by comparison, has been a godsend to GM with.

A forced narrative, restrictive starfighter system, cookie cutter world of warcraft character tree progression. With D6 your skills are easily quantifiable easily used and results easily read. It promotes with good gm'ing players who can express their needs rather than the dice telling the gm and players hey look embellish a little more. How many times in combat can your gun run out of ammo/jamb because of despair/threat. I've been running games for 32 years i'm always open to new ideas but when the dice beyond the success and failures dictate narrative it's a poke a gm's. A little to much strong arming the story.

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I'll grant you the starfighter system, I limit space combat stuff in FFG to chases.  I've always pointed to the vehicle scaling of WEG as a good model.

For the rest...pure hyperbole, if a little disjointed.

22 hours ago, splad said:

I've been running games for 32 years

Well, I have you beat, for whatever it means.

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13 minutes ago, whafrog said:

I'll grant you the starfighter system, I limit space combat stuff in FFG to chases.  I've always pointed to the vehicle scaling of WEG as a good model.

For the rest...pure hyperbole, if a little disjointed.

Well, I have you beat, for whatever it means.

Sorry if it wasn't a clear enough for you i didn't know i had to measure up before offering an opinion. What i said was not exaggeration and that many people have agreed with me especially about the starfighter combat to which you concurred. As for age not necessarily a measure of success but i always had a packed table of players when it came to game time if that is a better yard stick for you. I tried to hit the salient points to which you can take or leave.

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