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wolfien8

Deluxe Expansions

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Have we heard what the Deluxe Expansions are going to look like? It sounds like in other LCGs they went with focusing on one group at a time with very little or no support for the others and cycles were balanced. Have they answered this? I hope they do not because I think it will create temporary large power spikes for individual clans which doesn't seem fun. I would prefer something closer to LOTR where a Deluxe kicks off a cycle and the themes are developed with the smaller packs and then archetypes and can really develop with the card pool. What would you guys prefer?

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My hope is that Deluxe Expansions come in two forms.

  1. New Faction Expansions - These expansions would have a heavy focus on a new faction (i.e. Spider Clan, the Minor Clan Alliance, etc.) with a good number of cards that can be used by all existing factions.
  2. Theme Expansions - The expansions would be focused around a specific theme (i.e. Dueling, Ninjas and other Shadow warriors, Magistrates and Criminals, etc) with an even split of cards for use by all factions.

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I was kind of hoping for either the new faction/clan expansion route ie Shadowlands, Naga, Ratling, Mantis, Kolat, Yotodai.....,.the possibilities are nearly endless.  The point is that if they did sets like this I would like to see the bulk of the expansion dedicated to whatever new faction/clan is released and then some cards for each existing major clan.  This allows the new factions/clans to become evergreen but gives the core 7 clans more cards to work with.

Another option I like would be some allies and/or enemy parings maybe based on story results.  Doesn't have to be but and likely not possible in real time since printings have to happen so early but seeing a set with Phoenix vs Unicorn an the result of story using alliances forged during voting would be sweet.  Again probably best impossible to pull off so maybe just do some.planned battles that they have coming down the pipeline for other story events.  Like Test of the Emerald Champion where there are cards that go in your deck to impact story and the overall theme of the expansion is dueling and politics driven.  Then a reboot of The Battle at Beiden Pass to focus on more military focused cards.

My guess is something more along the lines of what Conquest did with  the Tryanids and Necron expansions.....just swap in Shadowlands and Mantis instead.

Edited by Ishi Tonu

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Hopefully no new factions. One can already make a compelling argument that seven factions are excessive.

Boxes based on large overarching events/themes (not niche keywords) would be good. For instance a shadowlands themed box with tainted characters (for the 7 GCs) and maho (and maybe even an oni) would be great.

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25 minutes ago, Mr Omura said:

Hopefully no new factions. One can already make a compelling argument that seven factions are excessive.

Boxes based on large overarching events/themes (not niche keywords) would be good. For instance a shadowlands themed box with tainted characters (for the 7 GCs) and maho (and maybe even an oni) would be great.

Yeah I'm hoping for no new factions AND no clan deluxe expansions, but rather more story driven ones (with all clans represented). With how infrequent the deluxe sets are released, it would be YEARS before all of the clans had theirs, which is something I think should be avoided.

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51 minutes ago, Isawa Kioshi said:

Yeah I'm hoping for no new factions AND no clan deluxe expansions, but rather more story driven ones (with all clans represented). With how infrequent the deluxe sets are released, it would be YEARS before all of the clans had theirs, which is something I think should be avoided.

I think you could introduce the Mantis/Orochi clan in a theme set without giving them a stronghold. Just put out a decent selection of splashable conflict cards. Because at this point in the old timeline, they would all be minor clans and it would fit well until later on. You can even do some good player input onto the story in that regard (i.e. maybe the minor clans go with someone else like Ryosei).

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6 minutes ago, Kubernes said:

I think you could introduce the Mantis/Orochi clan in a theme set without giving them a stronghold. Just put out a decent selection of splashable conflict cards. Because at this point in the old timeline, they would all be minor clans and it would fit well until later on. You can even do some good player input onto the story in that regard (i.e. maybe the minor clans go with someone else like Ryosei).

I'd definitely be okay with new factions being represented as tainted/corrupted/splashable cards for the preexisting clans. Best way they can do it, in my opinion.

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I was just chatting about this the other day, and indeed the topic has been pretty constant in anticipation of the new game...

I think the core set as the 7 great clans is good.  It sets a solid base for the game, showing who the "main" players are.  That said, the thing L5R is most famous for is the game and story being interwoven...  No one would actually dare to remove one of the 7 great clans from existence, but their power should be able to wax and wane in representation with the story.  Similarly new factions are practically needed to come and go to really bring this alive...

I think the first Deluxe needs to be about the 7 great clans again.  It needs to continue to build them so that they have a solid foundation for future play...  then what I hope is that each deluxe picks a few factions (old and new) to focus on (like give each of the 7 clans 1 dynasty and 1 conflict card, but then give more focus to a few among them.)  This way you can see when certain elements are growing in power while others are waning.  The Dynasty packs can also give 1 card to some factions, with 2-3 going to others to continue the display of the ebb and flow of power.  This keeps everyone getting something but the influence of being a clan that is on the rise, or on the fall is understood.

Then the next Deluxe can come out and switch up who is getting more support, allowing the shift to be felt on both ends through the cycles.

I hope they add a card type that serves the function of the sensei and 4 winds cards.  Something that augments your deck slightly, showing an alliance between the clan you are actually playing and another faction, be it corruption, shadow, minor clans, toturi's army, shadowed tower, ect, so that you can more clearly represent the ideal behind your representation of your clan.

Edited by shosuko

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1 hour ago, Suzume Tomonori said:

I think we will and should see the Mantis (or a minor clan alliance) eventually, but I'm not sure that we really need orochi. On a related note, as much as I liked Phoenix elemental dragon decks, I think we can do without that theme this time around, too.

The Orochi name was just a placeholder instead of using Mantis as a foregone conclusion. It's a new storyline after all and Orochi does fit better.

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21 minutes ago, Kubernes said:

The Orochi name was just a placeholder instead of using Mantis as a foregone conclusion. It's a new storyline after all and Orochi does fit better.

This sounds like something that came up after I left the game. Was there an Orochi family / minor clan at some point?

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1 hour ago, Suzume Tomonori said:

 On a related note, as much as I liked Phoenix elemental dragon decks, I think we can do without that theme this time around, too.

If they do being back an elemental dragons theme, how about letting the Dragon Clan have it this time? Phoenix already have a far more developed (and mostly far better) 'Elemental Rings manipulation' theme out of the gate, and it would be nice if Dragon could have a few dragons.

Granted, we don't know if Yokuni is really Togashi this time around (I suspect that I this version the Dragon Champion 'channels' Togashi in some way, but the Kami's spirit isn't in their body most of the time). Also, there's been no mention of Togashi Hoshi. The old game retconned a lot of Togashi's close ties with the Elemental Dragons (he was even the one who convinced the Thunder Dragon to hook up with Hida, resulting in Osano-Wo, and also ultimately the Mantis), but I'm hoping that even if Togashi is not really around this time, his clan has at least some ties to the elemental dragons.

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1 minute ago, Suzume Tomonori said:

This sounds like something that came up after I left the game. Was there an Orochi family / minor clan at some point?

No. I think he just means that having Orochi be the Clan's name is more thematic for a seafaring, somewhat 'morally dubious' clan. In the original game, Mantis did have a few years where they gained "Storm Riders", people who rode around on Orochi (mystical sea serpents), who in Rokugan are apparently not super-evil as they are in Japanese mythology, but more 'trickster sprits' that just happen to be huge man-eating serpents. I always thought it didn't fit quite right, but a  lot of people loved it.

 

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For the love of God, I don't want to see new factions any time soon. Ratlings, Naga, Spider, Shadowlands, Toturi's Army, Yoritomo's Alliance... They all watered down the last game. I'd rather see strong, continued support for the seven great clans that develop themes. The moment we see a new faction, the less we'll see in chapter packs that support the game.

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1 hour ago, Togashi Gao Shan said:

If they do being back an elemental dragons theme, how about letting the Dragon Clan have it this time?

This time around they have a chance to clearly redefine what the elemental dragons are (if they even exist.) They made sense as a Phoenix theme in Old5R both mechanically (they were shugenja) and storyline-wise (Phoenix are the masters of elemental magic, dragons were the elements incarnate.) If FFG brings them back they have a chance to change the mechanics and lore so that they make more sense as a Dragon clan theme (e.g. make them more tied to personal enlightenment / sources of wisdom / spirit guides and less "raw power of the elements.") 

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2 hours ago, Togashi Gao Shan said:

Phoenix already have a far more developed (and mostly far better) 'Elemental Rings manipulation' theme out of the gate,

This is a very good point. When we saw the previews I did feel like the Phoenix got what in Old5R would likely have been a Dragon theme. It is a large thematic shift from how things work on Old5R, though the fundamental nature of the rings in the game is quite different now, as well.

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3 hours ago, Suzume Tomonori said:

This is a very good point. When we saw the previews I did feel like the Phoenix got what in Old5R would likely have been a Dragon theme. It is a large thematic shift from how things work on Old5R, though the fundamental nature of the rings in the game is quite different now, as well.

It seems to me to be quite Henshin-like: playing tricks and riddles with the elements.

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I can afford to buy cards. I'm going for a playset of every card they print. However, I realise that I'm very privileged: many players are on a budget, and a game which excludes them will be a game with a much smaller player base and so a weaker community.

Because of this, having clan-specific deluxe packs might be a good idea, because that means that poorer players only need to buy one instead of all seven.

This might seem like it would cut FFG's sales, but I think the opposite is true: if players have to buy all the deluxe boxes to be effective, then poorer players will just not play at all. By giving them an affordable way into the hobby it will mean that at least they buy something.

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22 minutes ago, Kitsu Seinosuke said:

I can afford to buy cards. I'm going for a playset of every card they print. However, I realise that I'm very privileged: many players are on a budget, and a game which excludes them will be a game with a much smaller player base and so a weaker community.

Because of this, having clan-specific deluxe packs might be a good idea, because that means that poorer players only need to buy one instead of all seven.

This might seem like it would cut FFG's sales, but I think the opposite is true: if players have to buy all the deluxe boxes to be effective, then poorer players will just not play at all. By giving them an affordable way into the hobby it will mean that at least they buy something.

In AGoT we have an expansion for one faction, but if you want to be competitive you'll need to buy it, no matter what faction you play. There are often cards that are good to splash, neutral cards and every faction get 2 cards, that are sometimes extremly strong (Plaza of Pride).

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18 hours ago, shosuko said:

... No one would actually dare to remove one of the 7 great clans from existence, but their power should be able to wax and wane in representation with the story.  Similarly new factions are practically needed to come and go to really bring this alive...

...

Yeah, it's not that we have seen the demise of one of the great clans in another, past future story ...

;-)

Edited by ichaos1985

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1 minute ago, ichaos1985 said:

Yeah, it's not that we have seen the demise of one of the great clans in another, past future story ...

;-)

I don't believe any clan has been actually destroyed.  Displaced and under represented?  Yes.  Left less powerful?  Yes.  Destroyed and removed from existence?  I don't think so.  Am I wrong?

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