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Bayushi Batta

Bayushi Shoju vs Reprieve rules question

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Hy there!
Rules question here (LCG version).
Bayushi Shoju gives -2 political skill to a charater who now has 0 political skill.. That character si dead for sure, but what if he has the Crab saving attachment (Reprieve i think).
Using aGoT logic it wont (the attachment saves the char but his skill is still 10 so... byebye).
Any ruling on this one? Ideas?

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10 minutes ago, Poi68 said:

It's an action, not a persistent check of the situation. Shoju acts, Reprieve is discarded, action over.

No Its not.  Reprieve is an interrupt not a Reaction. :) The RulesReference says  if a replacement interrupt takes place you have to go back to the triggering effect and finish resolving it.
0Pol
Reprieve
We go back to 0Pol
Shoju resolves. They die.

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I go with agot on that one. And btw I hate how dracarys works there and I'm very happy to see that they saved this ability for a 5 coster that can be properly played around. It prevents situations like lucky draw into 2/3 dracarys also. 

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 The issue is, Shoju's action creates a lasting effect..."until the end of the conflict" indicates a duration for both the -1 Pol and discard condition. It can effectively be read "until the end of the conflict, that character is discarded if its Pol skill is 0." 

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I'm coming from an Old5R background, but I read "until the end of the conflict" to be a persistent effect, like @Zesu Shadaban pointed out above. If the skill said something like "if this action reduces the character's POL to 0" or "the next time this character has 0 POL this conflict" I could see Reprieve working, but that is not the kind of wording used here.

But this is my first LCG; is there precedent for a Reprieve like effect working here? It sounds like maybe there is in AGoT?

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5 minutes ago, Bayushi Batta said:

In aGoT 2.0 Dracarys and some other Targeryen card works like this, and under "like this" i mean the whole wording is the same. There its cannot be saved. Here? I dont know. :D

 

Especially as it's AGOT 2.0 (rather than 1.0) I think it's a safe bet that the ruling will be the same. I say this because in virtually any other case I've seen brought up here on the forums, the ruling proved to follow suit with FFG's other LCGs.

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In the CCG, Desperate Rush read "If the enemy card's Force is now 0, destroy it." (not the same wording as Chi death, afair) to indicate a one-time effect otherwise similar to this. I'm not aware of any precedent for a one-time effect similar to that (reduce a stat and discard/kill if the stat is 0) in the LCGs.

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Shoju's action creates a Lasting Effect until the end of the phase. I'm pretty confident that the process would be: Political skill of Reprieve'd character drops to 0 -> Shoju's Lasting Effect triggers -> Controlling player chooses if Reprieve interrupts, and if so Reprieve is discarded -> Character is then discarded by the Lasting Effect.

Still, probably worth a clarification.

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i don't think reprieve stops this. As I'm reading it he gives -1 until end of conflict and if their skill hits 0 they die. So he doesn't have to give the last minus, he can give -1, then they can get hit by something that lowers them further, then they die.

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5 hours ago, Bayushi Nono said:

Shojus Action is a lasting effect. The effect don't ends, cause you discard Reprieve. So your Charakter is still at 0 pol and is still discarded when it is at 0 pol.

So if your theory is correct  (and even though it soinds pretty correct,  I will wait for a more specific ruling) If Shoju vs some guy at 4 political skill, he uses his actions to give - 2, then if he uses fiery madness in the player next then they are discarded? 

Edited by Devin-the-Poet
Clarification

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1 minute ago, Devin-the-Poet said:

So and I will wait for a more specific ruling. If Shoju vs some guy at 4 political skill, he uses his actions to give - 2, then if he uses fiery madness in the player next then they are discarded? 

yeah i think so, I read it the other way originally, but it does seem to create an effect lasting the entire conflict.

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2 minutes ago, Devin-the-Poet said:

So if your theory is correct  (and even though it soinds pretty correct,  I will wait for a more specific ruling) If Shoju vs some guy at 4 political skill, he uses his actions to give - 2, then if he uses fiery madness in the player next then they are discarded? 

It's because of that "until the end of the conflict" line on Shoju that I believe this is correct.

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I believe it is intended to last for the entire conflict. The exact wording is 

Action: While this character is participating in a  conflict, choose a participating character controlled by your opponent – until the end of the conflict, that character gets –1 and is discarded if its  skill is 0. (Limit twice per round.)

There is a comma after "until the end of the conflict," the first part of the sentence, meaning that everything after this is affected, not just the -1 to Political Skill. Therefore, yes, any effect that reduces a character's Political Skill to 0 during the conflict in which Bayushi Shoju's ability was used should be discarded.

Yes, it does sound quite powerful.

P.S. Bayushi Shoju

bayushi-shoju.png

Edited by Mirumoto Kuroniten
Added link to card

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Shoju's action is a lasting effect, so it will keep checking for the condition.  So, the character would be discarded regardless what you do, unless the action that saves the character also makes its Pol skill no longer 0.

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