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Zetsubou

Masters of Deception

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Just great, a hard counter to Phoenix, a hard counter to Crane, mil/pol bonus to being dishonorable (and the extra cards!) with no danger of actually losing because of that (stronghold), great defense against Lion and Crab with dishonor-at-will and interchange between mil/pol. AND a fairly good mil and pol characters. Clan with only strengths and no weaknesses. Well, i've found my most hated clan. And i thought that Unicorn were terrible

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I also find myself REALLY wishing they had spoiled that Sinister Soshi...can't participate in ANY conflicts? But only 1 cost? What on earth could her ability be? It's just so...sinister. 

I really think, of all the clans, Scorpion will likely be my backup to playing Phoenix. Still love my Phoenix, but these are just so deliciously villainous. 

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7 minutes ago, Araenon said:

Just great, a hard counter to Phoenix, a hard counter to Crane, mil/pol bonus to being dishonorable (and the extra cards!) with no danger of actually losing because of that (stronghold), great defense against Lion and Crab with dishonor-at-will and interchange between mil/pol. AND a fairly good mil and pol characters. Clan with only strengths and no weaknesses. Well, i've found my most hated clan. And i thought that Unicorn were terrible

All smoke and mirrors. Once you catch them, you smash them like walnut on thigh.

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Holy crap, I've been undecided up till now, but the amount of "nope" that the Scorpion has looks hilarious. New to L5R, so no previous loyalty, but definitely decided to give them a go first.

3 minutes ago, Shu2jack said:

All smoke and mirrors. Once you catch them, you smash them like walnut on thigh.

Definitely. None of their characters outside Shoju has impressive stats, and they're going to have to hold on to fate to play all their tricks. Also their province seems rather weak compared to some of the others, and the stronghold only gives +1 versus most clans +2.

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16 minutes ago, Araenon said:

Just great, a hard counter to Phoenix, a hard counter to Crane, mil/pol bonus to being dishonorable (and the extra cards!) with no danger of actually losing because of that (stronghold), great defense against Lion and Crab with dishonor-at-will and interchange between mil/pol. AND a fairly good mil and pol characters. Clan with only strengths and no weaknesses. Well, i've found my most hated clan. And i thought that Unicorn were terrible

Couldn't agree more. At least the tradition of hating Scorpion continues from the old edition, though I was really hoping that wouldn't be the case. :(

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19 minutes ago, Shu2jack said:

I wonder how many people will splash Scorpion just for protection from events like For Greater Glory and Captive Audience.

Well, I'd say that to make consistent use of the Edict, you'll need at least 3 different (9 total) Courtiers in your deck(s), and preferably 4 (12). Not all clans can really manage that out of the core set.

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I'm just very surprised they printed "Dishonor a character" on a "Way of", especially when two of the seven clans are entirely reliant on that honored status.

It is far harder to become honored then it now is to dishonor, and the Soshi Illusionist is also incredibly powerful for flat out removing an honored status for just a fate.

Scorpion is a serious counter to the Crane and Phoenix, almost terrifyingly so.

Edited by TheItsyBitsySpider
Spelling

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Scorpion are my second favorite clan. Always loved the Dragon-Scorpion alliance, too.  Sure, the Kitsuki have an...interesting time trying to balance keeping  their red-n-black allies happy while investigating nefarious deeds like poisonings and other ninja shenanigans, but that makes for some interesting stories.

Its good to see that Scorpion will be a lot of fun to play, and probably rather effective in a good player's hands.

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1 minute ago, TheItsyBitsySpider said:

I'm just very surprised they printed "Dishonor a character" on a "Way of", especially when two of the seven clans are entirely reliant on that honored status.

It is far harder to become honored then it now is to dishonor, and the Soshi Illusionist is also incredibly powerful for flat out removing an honored status for just a fate.

Scorpion is a serious counter to the Crane and Phoenix, almost terrifyingly so.

To be fair, Way of the Crane is a straight up Honor a Character, so if anything Way of the Scorpion is just the mirror to that. With that in mind, I feel like it's far more punishing to the Phoenix than Crane, as Phoenix proper have to work more at honoring their characters than the Crane do. Soshi Illusionist is one specific card I really wish had been a Conflict card to make it splashable, if only to help remove those dishonor tokens. 

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I don't know if I agree with the seemingly early consensus that Scorpion counter Crane. I don't think it is that simple. Way of the Crane, Above Question, Voice of Honor, Steward of Laws, Guest of Honor*... What about all that says weak to dishonor to y'all?

Edited by Zetsubou
Forgot Guest of Honor

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Now I can see why Miya Mystic got changed from moves items to destroys items. Movable poison with Shoju would have been meaner than Pacifism tricks......or worse yet a deck with both.

Did the Scorpion end up with more unique characters than the other clans?  It seems like that was the case, but, I could be wrong.  If so I think that will help a little bit with their fate consumption and being able to keep their characters around a little longer.

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How much do you want to bet one of the first cards Phoenix get in a dynasty pack is an easy way to honor? I'm betting a lot of cards that were designed but deemed too powerful to be evergreen will be in the first few packs.

Also Lion should do well against Scorpion, who will be constantly dishonored compared to them, and often won't have the military to fight them off.

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1 minute ago, Zetsubou said:

I don't know if I agree with the seemingly early consensus that Scorpion counter Crane. I don't think it is that simple. Way of the Crane, Above Question, Voice of Honor, Steward of Laws... What about all that says weak to dishonor to y'all?

They of course have cards to respond to it, although Voice of Honor and Above Question only help against events. Steward of the Law is helpful while participating, but if Shoju comes to play he can instantly discard it. There is a lot of interplay between the clans though, to be sure. 

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1 minute ago, Zesu Shadaban said:

To be fair, Way of the Crane is a straight up Honor a Character, so if anything Way of the Scorpion is just the mirror to that. With that in mind, I feel like it's far more punishing to the Phoenix than Crane, as Phoenix proper have to work more at honoring their characters than the Crane do. Soshi Illusionist is one specific card I really wish had been a Conflict card to make it splashable, if only to help remove those dishonor tokens. 

The difference between Way of Crane and Way of Scorpion is that a lot of crane cards need honored bodies to function, Scorpion doesn't enable their own cards with their Way of card, it just flat out removes the synergy of other decks. And in the odd mirror or Crab matchup they have the Niece to cycle the card away for another.  

Phoenix is especially hosed because being honored is how they win fights in the first place. Its a very brutal counter that a Phoenix deck needs to now build counters for.

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1 minute ago, Zesu Shadaban said:

They of course have cards to respond to it, although Voice of Honor and Above Question only help against events. Steward of the Law is helpful while participating, but if Shoju comes to play he can instantly discard it. There is a lot of interplay between the clans though, to be sure. 

That's more my point than anything else. I'm not saying Crane are better, merely that there is more nuance to that matchup than Scorpion straight steamrolling them.

*Phoenix on the other hand #feelsbadman

Edited by Zetsubou

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1 minute ago, Zetsubou said:

*Phoenix on the other hand #feelsbadman

On one hand, yeah phoenix are hit hard, but on the other... Phoenix seems to have no clear BAD matchups up until the scorpion anyway, so I can understand a stiffer counter against the Scorpion. It just makes me want to dig deeper into my crane splash then expected.

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1 minute ago, Zetsubou said:

I don't know if I agree with the seemingly early consensus that Scorpion counter Crane. I don't think it is that simple. Way of the Crane, Above Question, Voice of Honor, Steward of Laws... What about all that says weak to dishonor to y'all?

The thing is: Crane *depend* on them being honorable and having strong pol characters. Apart from that, they have no strengths whatsoever. Scorpion can outright deny them become honorable, can make them lose honorable, can change their strong suit (pol) to mean nothing with interchange mil/pol, prevent some characters from entering combat, gain more tools with higher honor bids, after which steal back lost honor, and at the end of the day Scorpion have pol characters who are strong enough to battle non-honored crane and their mil capabilities are on par, if not better. TLDR: they deny advantages of Crane while not losing anything themselves and having more tools in the form of cards on their hand. But poor Phoenix is even worse.

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