Duskwalker

No Distant Suns?

41 posts in this topic

So from squinting at the previews, I noticed a distinct lack of anything resembling Distant Sun tokens. While I am perfectly OK with most of the mechanics they dropped, this one bothers me. 

I know some people don't like them, but for me they where always vital to represent the Explore part of a 4X game and to keeping the first two turn from turning into a simple exercise in planet-hopping.

Now, we still don't know everything (for example, what are the colored symbols next to the planet's name) so there might me something new. I would just hate to not have an exploration aspect in the game. 
 

mp663 and Brikhause like this

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Probably earmarked for an expansion. They can only fit so much in a box after all. 

Plus, that is something that would be dead simple to just use the TI3 components until official TI4 versions come out. 

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Posted (edited)

Perhaps the color on the sides of a planet is leading to some sort of draw a certain color card mechanism, and resolvev the outcome/event.  The various colors could represent risk/reward, or even thematic fluff that leans to a certain outcome.  Honestly, the more I think of it the more that would be cool.  Plus it would be a great way of balancing expansionism and curbing a player that lands at a sweet start up spot.  For example taking over 'Hopes End' could mean that a high price would have to be paid to take it.  So you have to weigh the value of taking over a type/class of planet vs. the cost it might be to take it. 

Edited by Brikhause
mp663 likes this

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Interesting idea. That would be kinda cool, but I wouldn't think the icons would be so large if they didn't figure into the core mechanics somehow. 

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For me Distant Suns is a vital part of the early game. It makes conquering planets a lot more exciting than just landing troops at the quickest pace possible. It adds a lot of fun, when you have to think twice before landing with too many ground forces (radiation, hostages), or too few (hostiles, bio-hazard), makes you roll against yourself (enemy PDS) and the occasional outcry of your opponents (free tech, free space dock). It would be a great shame if none of this made it to the base game.

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3 hours ago, Brikhause said:

Perhaps the color on the sides of a planet is leading to some sort of draw a certain color card mechanism, and resolvev the outcome/event.  The various colors could represent risk/reward, or even thematic fluff that leans to a certain outcome.  Honestly, the more I think of it the more that would be cool.  Plus it would be a great way of balancing expansionism and curbing a player that lands at a sweet start up spot.  For example taking over 'Hopes End' could mean that a high price would have to be paid to take it.  So you have to weigh the value of taking over a type/class of planet vs. the cost it might be to take it. 

It would be an interesting twist on the random tokens, if more valuable planets posed a greater risk to conquer.

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Posted (edited)

12 hours ago, Brikhause said:

Perhaps the color on the sides of a planet is leading to some sort of draw a certain color card mechanism, and resolvev the outcome/event.  The various colors could represent risk/reward, or even thematic fluff that leans to a certain outcome.  Honestly, the more I think of it the more that would be cool.  Plus it would be a great way of balancing expansionism and curbing a player that lands at a sweet start up spot.  For example taking over 'Hopes End' could mean that a high price would have to be paid to take it.  So you have to weigh the value of taking over a type/class of planet vs. the cost it might be to take it. 

I would love it if you had event-decks depending on the color of the planet, especially if the colors correlate to the planets value. I suspect in the core-game the colors will mostly be relevant for objectives and laws, but it certainly opens new possibilities.  

Event-decks would also solve some of the issues, the old system had as it would allow for more variety and avoid the constant cross-referencing you had to do with the tokens. 

You could also introduce a mini-game in which the player has to decide if he wants to "raze" or "explore" the planet, before he draws a card and depending on that you could have different effects.     

Edited by Duskwalker

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2 hours ago, Forgottenlore said:

It's an interesting idea, but there don't seem to be any card decks in the preview pictures that correspond to those icons. 

Yeah I was looking for the cards that might do that, but I think if those symbols are a distant sun type mechanic the symbols might just be the event itself.  IE if a planet has a red symbol then it will take 2 ground forces instead of 1 to take it over, or something along those lines.  

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I was just looking at the pictures of the box contents, specifically the planet cards. If you look closely the colored tech symbols are on the top left of the planet cards. The other symbols (from what I can see there are Red, Green, and Blue (looks like an oval) symbols on the planet tiles (I was looking at the picture that has the box contents splayed out) but I could not find any Yellow symbols (not saying they aren't there, I just can't see them or distinguish between yellow tech symbols).

Anyhow, my point, I don't believe that these new symbols have anything to do with a Distant Sun mechanic, as they are present on the planet cards. If the symbols were a Distant Sun mechanic there would be no need for them to be on the planet cards, as by the time you have experienced the mechanic and gained the card that information would no longer be required.

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Posted (edited)

Well. Maybe this victory point is a distant sun marker?

 

Since they write: “With over 354 plastic units, 450 cards, 700 tokens, 50 galaxy tiles, and so much more, Twilight Imperium Fourth Edition redefines what it means to be epic in the world of board gaming.“

 

561 command and control tokens

and probably:

46 Fighters+ground force

40 trade goods

8 bonus counters

Leaves pretty much the 44 Domain counters and 1 left (+ the option of more). Maybe there are more planets or they used sth from the TI3 expansions.

 

IMG_20170815_015855.jpg

Edited by Chimonas

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ti07_spread_1000.pngIf you look at this image, directly above the red plastic components is the speaker token and a few other tokens, one of which is the "1 Victory Point" token that you were looking at. There are a few other tokens there that I am unsure of, as well as an "X" and "Y" token, and a token that looks like it has the Naluu Collective racial symbol on it.

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55 minutes ago, Chimonas said:

Well. Maybe this victory point is a distant sun marker?

 

Since they write: “With over 354 plastic units, 450 cards, 700 tokens, 50 galaxy tiles, and so much more, Twilight Imperium Fourth Edition redefines what it means to be epic in the world of board gaming.“

 

561 command and control tokens

and probably:

46 Fighters+ground force

40 trade goods

8 bonus counters

I see no bonus marker on any image... 

Where does this information came from? 

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If they left out Distant Suns, good.  My avatar on the old forums was "Just Say No to Distant Suns."  I understand why people like them but there's a litany of reasons why they're bad game design.  Other games have done a much better job of adding exploration to this genre of game.  I'll entertain playing with them again someday if they completely redo how they work.

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Posted (edited)

37 minutes ago, MikeEvans said:

If they left out Distant Suns, good.  My avatar on the old forums was "Just Say No to Distant Suns."  I understand why people like them but there's a litany of reasons why they're bad game design.  Other games have done a much better job of adding exploration to this genre of game.  I'll entertain playing with them again someday if they completely redo how they work.

 

Mr. Evans. I remember well that avatar!:)

Over the years the TI3:SA community also largely left the use of Distant Suns behind, but it was revived a (non-disclosed) feature  on pre-set maps to be part of the game as a strategic aspect.

As you can see in the map library. I think you would enjoy this setup! By the way; artwork by yours truly.

Edited by PsiComa
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Hey, Psi!  Fantastic to see you here.  I was hoping you'd make an appearance with the release of 4th edition.  I'll send you a private message so we can catch up.

PsiComa likes this

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45 minutes ago, PsiComa said:

By the way; artwork by yours truly.

Dude... very well done.  Exquisite!  You've been busy these last several years!

 

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14 hours ago, IDragonfire said:

I see no bonus marker on any image... 

Where does this information came from? 

That's why I wrote probably. I just compared the content old and new edition.

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Looks like people were sort of right re: those symbols and distant suns. The 3 colors of symbols represent hostile planets (red), industrial planets (green), and cultural planets (blue). And while there don't seem to be any automatic effects from them (easy to add appropriate decks in an expansion) apparently various cards will reference those traits, occasionally producing a distant suns-like effect. 

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1 hour ago, Forgottenlore said:

Looks like people were sort of right re: those symbols and distant suns. The 3 colors of symbols represent hostile planets (red), industrial planets (green), and cultural planets (blue). And while there don't seem to be any automatic effects from them (easy to add appropriate decks in an expansion) apparently various cards will reference those traits, occasionally producing a distant suns-like effect. 

I think we've seen one. Can't remember where, maybe an Action card, that causes a Hazardous Planet's controller to lose ground units there.

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18 minutes ago, Network57 said:

I think we've seen one. Can't remember where, maybe an Action card, that causes a Hazardous Planet's controller to lose ground units there.

It's on page 10 of the Learn to Play rulebook. Exaust a hazardous planet and destroy 3 ground forces there.

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Posted (edited)

Things that I don't see.

  • Twilight counsel (consular, spies and bodyguards)
  • Heroes Tokens (general, admiral, scientist, diplomat, spy)
  • Mercenaries
  • Shock Troops
  • Mechanized Units
  • Mines
  • Distant Suns (planet and space)
  • wormhole nexus
  • Promissory notes
  • The Lazax Scenario (understandably so)

And I am sure there is more.

Edited by Marinealver

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1 hour ago, Marinealver said:

Things that I don't see.

  • Twilight counsel (consular, spies and bodyguards)
  • Heroes Tokens (general, admiral, scientist, diplomat, spy)
  • Mercenaries
  • Shock Troops
  • Mines
  • Distant Suns (planet and space)
  • wormhole nexus
  • Promissory notes
  • The Lazax Scenario (understandably so)

And I am sure there is more.

Yeah, but most of those things are very modular and shouldn't be too difficult to add in an expansion. 

For that matter, a big chunk of them can probably be ported over direct from TI3. 

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1 hour ago, Archangelion said:

Promissory Notes are still a thing.

Yeah I saw that in the rules reference. I guess they wanted a little more diplomacy in it. Still no heroes though, I will admit I am surprised they didn't try to make it part of activation like Star Wars Rebellion. Maybe the inevitable expansion will include the Heros, Mercs, and Council later. Perhapse in a better way too.

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