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woah woah woah wait....  Scorpion get their own Cavalry Reserves???? !!!!!!

I mean, yeah its from hand / provinces, not discard - but still... this is... unexpected and powerful!! O_O

Note - the 1 Influence...  Will the Lion be tempted???

Edited by shosuko

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7 minutes ago, shosuko said:

woah woah woah wait....  Scorpion get their own Cavalry Reserves???? !!!!!!

I mean, yeah its from hand / provinces, not discard - but still... this is... unexpected and powerful!! O_O

Note - the 1 Influence...  Will the Lion be tempted???

Note the Scorpion Characters only, I somehow doubt that will be too tempting to anyone not running Scorpion as their main.

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7 minutes ago, Klawtu said:

Note the Scorpion Characters only, I somehow doubt that will be too tempting to anyone not running Scorpion as their main.

Ah, I did not catch that...  Odd that a splash-able card would be Scorpion only.  Like I Am Ready...  these confuse me as to why they aren't just clan loyal...

Anyway - as I'm playing Scorpion I am still loving this card.  Very thematic and BAM powerful!  This allows you to combine multiple entering-play effects together without your opponent being able to play any actions between them.  It also makes Adept of Shadows a bit more tempting as she can be played cheaper than 2 and still taken back...

Edited by shosuko

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I can't make up my mind about how this card matches up to Cavalry Reserves. Sure it eats up cards in hand and provinces, but thanks to that it requires minimal setup. Anyway, since they both potentially duplicate your fate investment I'm certain they will be powerful cards.

On the other hand, 3 fate on an event is a lot. Getting "Voice of Honor"-ed is going to hurt.

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9 minutes ago, shosuko said:

Ah, I did not catch that...  Odd that an splash-able card would be Scorpion only, like I Am Ready...  These confuse me as to why they aren't just clan loyal...

Anyway - as I'm playing Scorpion I am still loving this card.  Very thematic and BAM powerful!

The Rules Reference document seemed to imply personalities aligned to more than one clan are a possibility. If that is true clan only cards could be good splashes for decks that run those characters.

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I wonder is scorpion will have more conflict characters than other clans as well? It's not impossible, and it is a sneaky theme. If they're low influence and your clan has a keeper role you might just be set. 

 

Of course, adept if the shadows has 3 influence cost, so the above might be unlikely. 

Edited by Isawa Enns

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3 minutes ago, Doji Tori said:

I can't make up my mind about how this card matches up to Cavalry Reserves. Sure it eats up cards in hand and provinces, but thanks to that it requires minimal setup. Anyway, since they both potentially duplicate your fate investment I'm certain they will be powerful cards.

On the other hand, 3 fate on an event is a lot. Getting "Voice of Honor"-ed is going to hurt.

  • Pro for Ambush: 
    • Can target all Scorpion Cards
    • Can work in either Mil or Pol conflicts
    • Can target Conflict Characters
  • Pro for Cavalry Reserves
    • Doesn't require a specific clan so easier to splash
    • Can bring back as many character as you want as long as they have at most cost 6
    • Targets the discard pile

I think that while they serve similar purposes (bringing out characters for a reduced cost as a surprise) they are also playing into each clan's style. The Unicorn will likely have a lot of people to recur from their discard piles seeing how one of their main readiers pulls fate off characters to do that. On the other hand Scorpion wants to have a huge hand with multiple potential targets in hand not to mention the ones that will bounce back. Also holding off on buying characters and saving fate will not be too uncommon to the Scorpion IMHO seeing how they have interesting ways to disrupt using conflict cards. Basically 2 cards that are close enough to try and figure out what's better but in the end seem to mainly support their own clans in interesting ways.

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11 minutes ago, Klawtu said:
  • Pro for Ambush: 
    • Can target all Scorpion Cards
    • Can work in either Mil or Pol conflicts
    • Can target Conflict Characters
  • Pro for Cavalry Reserves
    • Doesn't require a specific clan so easier to splash
    • Can bring back as many character as you want as long as they have at most cost 6
    • Targets the discard pile

I think that while they serve similar purposes (bringing out characters for a reduced cost as a surprise) they are also playing into each clan's style. The Unicorn will likely have a lot of people to recur from their discard piles seeing how one of their main readiers pulls fate off characters to do that. On the other hand Scorpion wants to have a huge hand with multiple potential targets in hand not to mention the ones that will bounce back. Also holding off on buying characters and saving fate will not be too uncommon to the Scorpion IMHO seeing how they have interesting ways to disrupt using conflict cards. Basically 2 cards that are close enough to try and figure out what's better but in the end seem to mainly support their own clans in interesting ways.

I would like to point out that until non-Unicorn clans start getting their own Cavalry personalities (something they probably eventually should, since, at least in the old canon, all of them have their own special mounted units) Cavalry Reserves also effectively requires a specific clan.

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1 minute ago, Doji Tori said:

I would like to point out that until non-Unicorn clans start getting their own Cavalry personalities (something they probably eventually should, since, at least in the old canon, all of them have their own special mounted units) Cavalry Reserves also effectively requires a specific clan.

You are correct that it not only is a clan specific keyword at the moment but is one that not even all of the clan have so it could be seen as a downside but I figure there's a good chance people will be getting them eventually.

In fact I wonder if that's a possible future story reward. Like if your clan manages to beat the Unicorn will you start getting some Cavalry cards?

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12 minutes ago, Doji Tori said:

I would like to point out that until non-Unicorn clans start getting their own Cavalry personalities (something they probably eventually should, since, at least in the old canon, all of them have their own special mounted units) Cavalry Reserves also effectively requires a specific clan.

I think the old game gave it a good try with the universal cavalry assignment phase.  It wasn't perfect, but it was representative and allowed cavalry to be more prominent, but still a forte of the Unicorn.  The problem was that cavalry had to be inefficient in other stats to justify their innate power.

I'm glad that FFG is going at it a different way - with this the cavalry trait isn't its self overpowered, so the characters can stand better alone.  Now we just have to wait for the trait to spread, and the effects to multiply.  I've been saying for a bit that I'd like to see a few more actions that let us move characters into a battle, and I like what I see in Unicorn.  They have so - much - movement!  Now we just need to allow some measure of this power in neutral lol.

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I really don't like the design they went with on this card and I am Ready. Why artificially limit them just to inclan characters(and make them 1 influence which doesn't matter, because no one will play them out of clan) instead of making them 3 influence and not limited just to clan characters. That way other decks would at least think about including these cards and I really don't see the problem with Lion or Dragon or actually any clan using them.

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5 minutes ago, BordOne said:

I really don't like the design they went with on this card and I am Ready. Why artificially limit them just to inclan characters(and make them 1 influence which doesn't matter, because no one will play them out of clan) instead of making them 3 influence and not limited just to clan characters. That way other decks would at least think about including these cards and I really don't see the problem with Lion or Dragon or actually any clan using them.

Exactly - you can only have 10 character cards in your Conflict deck anyway...  Add in the splash for the clan limited card, and the influence of even just a few characters, and it becomes a dead end pretty fast :\

I would say "maybe the cards will be different on actual release" but the cards have long sense been submitted for the first printing, these images should be final versions...  It seems like a pretty bad design decision imo ~  I don't know what would redeem these cards as "splash cards" to warrant having that option...

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5 minutes ago, BordOne said:

I really don't like the design they went with on this card and I am Ready. Why artificially limit them just to inclan characters(and make them 1 influence which doesn't matter, because no one will play them out of clan) instead of making them 3 influence and not limited just to clan characters. That way other decks would at least think about including these cards and I really don't see the problem with Lion or Dragon or actually any clan using them.

This was done so that you would splash conflict characters with instead of just splashing a really good conflict card.

Both cards can easily put their cost or more in to play for one action.

6 minutes ago, shosuko said:

 I don't know what would redeem these cards as "splash cards" to warrant having that option...

Lets see. In clan, neutral and multi-clan dynasty characters with cavalry for Cavalry Reserves and multi-clan Scorpion and/or 7+ 1 influence Scorpion conflict characters for Ambush.

These cards are designed to be better as splash as more cards are added each month.

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Can you declare an attack and not assign anyone? If that's the case, this could actually be a tricksy card, at the very least. Something you can use to peek at a face down province at no expense.

If not, well at least I can use this to put some 4-5 raw ability on the conflict.

Shame, it's another 3 cost event though.

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10 minutes ago, Shosuro Teri said:

Can you declare an attack and not assign anyone? If that's the case, this could actually be a tricksy card, at the very least. Something you can use to peek at a face down province at no expense.

If not, well at least I can use this to put some 4-5 raw ability on the conflict.

Shame, it's another 3 cost event though.

Nope you need to assign at least 1 attacker to make it a legal attack declaration. 

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3 minutes ago, Klawtu said:

Nope you need to assign at least 1 attacker to make it a legal attack declaration. 

Yeah, read it just now. Shame you can't opt to not declare attackers like before. Oh well, brute force it is then.

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3 hours ago, BordOne said:

I really don't like the design they went with on this card and I am Ready. Why artificially limit them just to inclan characters(and make them 1 influence which doesn't matter, because no one will play them out of clan) instead of making them 3 influence and not limited just to clan characters. That way other decks would at least think about including these cards and I really don't see the problem with Lion or Dragon or actually any clan using them.

I'm of the opposite opinion; if you want to make a powerful and iconic card such as this one, make it clan-specific in some way.  Otherwise, what you'll see is a broken card being played by everyone and the faction who has it just has an "influence discount".  This happened in Netrunner with NUMEROUS cards, with examples being Jackson Howard and the anarch breaker suite, just off the top of my head.  It ends up making the factions feel less unique if you can play that factions power cards in any deck.  I don't think it's bad design by any means, it just makes this card feel Scorpion-y.  The effect does seem pretty awesome.

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I love the idea that it is splashable and targets Scorpion characters only. Essentially, it says "We, the Scorpion, are always willing to lend you a hand; you just have to ask for our help" *insert Justice's song We Are your Friends*. The Scorpion Clan is the actual Master of Court and therefore has acquired a lot of favours, this card shows how some of them were gained.

Scorpion hatamoto: Do not worry, friend, what you ask for is but a trivial thing (1-Influence cost). I will make sure you get the help you need.

Other Clan random diplomat: Thank the Heavens and you Bayushi-sama! I am forever in your debt.

Scorpion hatamoto: Please, do not fret for such a small matter. We will also send you two of our best samurai (2 charcters max with a cost of up to 6) to carry our now common will, as a gesture of good faith.

Other Clan random diplomat: You do not have  to do this, Bayushi-sama.

Scorpion hatamoto: Why, but I do, my friend.

It feels sooooo Scorpion-y to me! The card is cheap, therefore it is tempting (notice how temptation and Scorpion rhymes) to use it even if you are not a Scorpion. However, you will have to invite them into your home to benefit from their help. Finally, as you can only splash one Clan, it locks down alliances in favour of the Scorpion. I freaking love it!

Also, a 3-Fate cost card for up to 6 points worth of Fate of characters, that is a pretty sweet deal; it almost feels like Scorpion are also good at  commerce ;)

Edited by Mirumoto Kuroniten

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6 minutes ago, Mirumoto Kuroniten said:

I love the idea that it is splashable and targets Scorpion characters only. Essentially, it says "We, the Scorpion, are always willing to lend you a hand; you just have to ask for our help" *insert Justice's song We Are your Friends*. The Scorpion Clan is the actual Master of Court and therefore has acquired a lot of favours, this card shows how some of them were gained.

Scorpion hatamoto: Do not worry, friend, what you ask for is but a trivial thing (1-Influence cost). I will make sure you get the help you need.

Other Clan random diplomat: Thank the Heavens and you Bayushi-sama! I am forever in your debt.

Scorpion hatamoto: Please, do not fret for such a small matter. We will also send you two of our best samurai (2 charcters max with a cost of up to 6) to carry our now common will, as a gesture of good will.

Other Clan random diplomat: You do not have  to do this, Bayushi-sama.

Scorpion hatamoto: Why, but I do, my friend.

It feels sooooo Scorpion-y to me! The card is cheap, therefore it is tempting (notice how temptation and Scorpion rhymes) to use it even if you are not a Scorpion. However, you will have to invite them into your home to benefit from their help. I freaking love it!

Also, a 3-Fate cost card for up to 6 points worth of Fate of characters, that is a pretty sweet deal; it almost feels like Scorpion are also good at  commerce ;)

Sure, thematically I love it...  but it is EXPENSIVE influence wise that I see it as simply unusable.  The cost in influence cost of this combined with characters will make this a very VERY unlikely combo...  Even to play it conservatively you'd be wanting 2x playsets of Scorpion Characters plus a playset of this card (MAYBE 2 off...) fitting in 10-13 influence...  with all the cards in your hand and the cost of the 2 characters (or at least the effect of them being played in combo) needs to be greater than the cost of the characters themselves...

I just don't see it being very realistic right now.  Maybe things change... or maybe this is one of those "its a test of what a player can evaluate as a good or bad card or combo"

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46 minutes ago, Casanunda said:

I'm of the opposite opinion; if you want to make a powerful and iconic card such as this one, make it clan-specific in some way.  Otherwise, what you'll see is a broken card being played by everyone and the faction who has it just has an "influence discount".  This happened in Netrunner with NUMEROUS cards, with examples being Jackson Howard and the anarch breaker suite, just off the top of my head.  It ends up making the factions feel less unique if you can play that factions power cards in any deck.  I don't think it's bad design by any means, it just makes this card feel Scorpion-y.  The effect does seem pretty awesome.

Or just make it NOT have an influence cost?  I mean - as I see it right now - the limits on this card are too much, so that you don't even see a reason to splash it.  You would have to be picking up some very cheap influence characters which are somehow made better by adding another card to the mix...  Just playing 2 cards that cost 4 total is better than adding a 3rd card to the combo to save 1 fate...

Maybe this card is just destined for future use.  Some people have speculated that a character may belong to more than 1 clan...  sounds horrible but I guess its "possible."  More likely, but still pretty far off... there could be a stronghold that gives more influence, maybe an "alliance" type stronghold that gives you a bunch more influence but requires your deck contain only the 2 clans it is designed for rather than allowing you to choose...

idk - at this point the influence on the card is a waste of space.  It is value-less at this point, even if thematic or full of "potential."

Edited by shosuko

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