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RedHotDice

What! Minis not prepainted!

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1 hour ago, Sciencius said:

Beautifully prepainted humanlike/people miniatures = normal looking colored plastic dolls/action figures like GI Joe/Barbie and the STAR WARS actionfigures I played around with as a kid where very nice, and has been around for like 30+  years.

This is very true; still, I fully disagree on the use of "beautifully": miniatures can reach quite a level of perfection if properly painted, and no GI Joe / Barbie / whatevs action figure you may purchase prepainted has the level of detail and beauty you can reach by painting them. Just look at what Sorastro's able to do: this is beautiful, not Barbie. Barbie is just decent mass market production.

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3 hours ago, Sciencius said:

Beautifully prepainted humanlike/people miniatures = normal looking colored plastic dolls/action figures like GI Joe/Barbie and the STAR WARS actionfigures I played around with as a kid where very nice, and has been around for like 30+  years.

Except they aren't equal. Compare the size of an action figure, about 4 to 8 inches usually. They are made of multiple assembled parts and pieces (often with screws or glue to hold them together). The colors are usually from the plastic that has been molded, and only have minor paint applications for things like the face, if any.

The miniatures used by FFG are about 1-2 inches in height, with intricate detailing and in dynamic poses. I'm not exactly sure on the process of how they're made, but most appear to be a single solid lump of molded plastic. Only the largest models, like the AT-ST, are made of multiple pieces, and even then it's only as many as necessary.

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7 hours ago, Blackbird888 said:

The miniatures used by FFG are about 1-2 inches in height, with intricate detailing and in dynamic poses.

This

Wiz Kids is the "leader" in prepainted minis in the hobby and their stuff looks pretty terrible. Heroclix would be the equivalent of a 1-2 inch action figures/barbie. Nothing beats a nice detailed mini that's hand painted. I am not great artist. I color in the lines, dry brush, wash, using only techniques in my limitations, and they typically look pretty good. I wouldn't want FFG to make minis any other way.

Best advice to OP if you want painted minis, is to check around the forums. Someone would be willing to do it for the right price and it will probably look better than anything FFG would have done.

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12 hours ago, Vazzucious said:

This

Wiz Kids is the "leader" in prepainted minis in the hobby and their stuff looks pretty terrible. Heroclix would be the equivalent of a 1-2 inch action figures/barbie. Nothing beats a nice detailed mini that's hand painted. I am not great artist. I color in the lines, dry brush, wash, using only techniques in my limitations, and they typically look pretty good. I wouldn't want FFG to make minis any other way.

Best advice to OP if you want painted minis, is to check around the forums. Someone would be willing to do it for the right price and it will probably look better than anything FFG would have done.

Sooooo bro, I have to FIRST buy this game!? THEN PAY some guy to paint them!?!! WHAT A HAZZLE!!!!! And how much?

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5 hours ago, RedHotDice said:

Sooooo bro, I have to FIRST buy this game!? THEN PAY some guy to paint them!?!! WHAT A HAZZLE!!!!! And how much?

Or you could use them unpainted as probably most boardgame players do with their boardgame miniatures and about how much well that depends on how good a paint job you want.

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If pre-painted minis would be an Insta buy, just pay someone to paint them there are several professional painters out there and it isn't too expensive, depending on the quality you expect

Edited by ryolacap

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50 minutes ago, ryolacap said:

If pre-painted minis would be an Insta buy, just pay someone to paint them there are several professional painters out there and it isn't too expensive, depending on the quality you expect

If had to get somone to paint it, it would not be insta would it?!? Haha.

Price for top quality painters?

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1 hour ago, RedHotDice said:

If had to get somone to paint it, it would not be insta would it?!? Haha.

Price for top quality painters?

Can't tell you but you could ask these painting services what they would charge but I assume a top notch paintjob with all those really hard techniques can be quite expensive.

 

Blue table painting
Den of Imagination
Painted Figs
Chest of colors

another thing you could do is look at the recent auction section from Cool Mini or Not and choose you paintlevel/ range (so for example from 8-10) right now though there only seems to be these 3 Death Guard Marines in roughly  the same size of the FFG Fallout minis and bidding for them starts at 90$ and if you want to buy them without bidding it would be 200$

 

EDIT: And for anyone interested what's possible with painting you might want to chek out Cool Mini or Not's Crystal Brush Awards or similiar competitions.

Edited by Iceeagle85

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15 hours ago, RedHotDice said:

Sooooo bro, I have to FIRST buy this game!? THEN PAY some guy to paint them!?!! WHAT A HAZZLE!!!!! And how much?

Well if you wanted a painted version Fallout could cost 90-100 instead of 60, so you would be paying anyway. How much? I guess that depends on you. How much are you willing to pay per painted minis?

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On 12/8/2017 at 2:26 PM, Blackbird888 said:

Except they aren't equal. Compare the size of an action figure, about 4 to 8 inches usually. They are made of multiple assembled parts and pieces (often with screws or glue to hold them together). The colors are usually from the plastic that has been molded, and only have minor paint applications for things like the face, if any.

The miniatures used by FFG are about 1-2 inches in height, with intricate detailing and in dynamic poses. I'm not exactly sure on the process of how they're made, but most appear to be a single solid lump of molded plastic. Only the largest models, like the AT-ST, are made of multiple pieces, and even then it's only as many as necessary.

Before posting, you should read my earlier post with pictures from Arkham Horror. 

ah49_main.png

On 12/8/2017 at 10:02 PM, Vazzucious said:

This

Wiz Kids is the "leader" in prepainted minis in the hobby and their stuff looks pretty terrible. Heroclix would be the equivalent of a 1-2 inch action figures/barbie. Nothing beats a nice detailed mini that's hand painted. I am not great artist. I color in the lines, dry brush, wash, using only techniques in my limitations, and they typically look pretty good. I wouldn't want FFG to make minis any other way.

Best advice to OP if you want painted minis, is to check around the forums. Someone would be willing to do it for the right price and it will probably look better than anything FFG would have done.

I would hardly call Wiz Kids the "leader"?!? The miniatures in the X-wing equivalent Star Trek Attack Wing is of very substandard quality both in sculpt and paintjob compared to X-wing.  

 

Well, the purpose of me chiming in here was to raise awareness, through the community, to the designers of FFG (who hardly read the Forums themselves), in a hope to let them know that there are players such as myself, who would be very interested in this and other FFG game if the miniatures were prepainted. I have the same issue with the small ships of Armada not being prepainted, and Imperial Assault. Like @RedHotDice (or perhaps he changed his mind) would not like the extra hasle to find a professional painter and pay an additional amount for something, which I might not be satisfied with.

Importantly, I find the difference in quality between the cards and the miniatures like in this box to be very strange in this day and age. Especially as I know it easily could be otherwise. But I respect that there are players like the rest of you who would like to get raw plastic minatures and paint them in order to show off to others that you have a prettier game. I just want to play the game (and having it look decent). 

Well, at least my wallet is very happy it only has to spend money on X-wing.  

Edited by Sciencius

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6 hours ago, Sciencius said:

I would hardly call Wiz Kids the "leader"?!? The miniatures in the X-wing equivalent Star Trek Attack Wing is of very substandard quality both in sculpt and paintjob compared to X-wing. 

 

I put leaders in quotes because their slogan claims it. That's why I said their quality is terrible in the next sentence. Their figures may be painted but the detail is terrible. If FFG plans to have pre-painted minis the cost is either going to go up or they will have to cut quality corners. Fallout is a game that may jump 20 bucks to include prepainted minis. A game like Imperial Assault i could see doubling in price to be pre-painted.

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1 hour ago, Vazzucious said:

I put leaders in quotes because their slogan claims it. That's why I said their quality is terrible in the next sentence. Their figures may be painted but the detail is terrible. If FFG plans to have pre-painted minis the cost is either going to go up or they will have to cut quality corners. Fallout is a game that may jump 20 bucks to include prepainted minis. A game like Imperial Assault i could see doubling in price to be pre-painted.

And I for one would MUCH rather have unpainted minis than a substandard paint job.

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17 hours ago, Vazzucious said:

I put leaders in quotes because their slogan claims it. That's why I said their quality is terrible in the next sentence. Their figures may be painted but the detail is terrible. If FFG plans to have pre-painted minis the cost is either going to go up or they will have to cut quality corners. Fallout is a game that may jump 20 bucks to include prepainted minis. A game like Imperial Assault i could see doubling in price to be pre-painted.

Then I dont see the point in mentioning Wiz Kids at all, when FFGs own X-wing is of superior quality both in terms of paintjob and sculpt...

And yes, ofcourse the price would go up for this game if the miniatures were prepainted, but as I also mentioned in an earlier post, these prices are relative. You only think of this as a (for arguments sake, your example of $20) price jump from $60 to $80, because you know the current price is $60. Following that line of thought, I guess you would rather the game was $40 and the cards or the playboard were of less quality also.

16 hours ago, mwmcintyre said:

And I for one would MUCH rather have unpainted minis than a substandard paint job.

Nobody has said anything about accepting a substandard paint job - this is FFG not Wiz Kids afterall ;-D ;-D 

The choice here is between beautiful prepainted miniatures (in a more expensive game), compared to unpainted miniatures. Personally I would be happy to pay $80 for this game if the miniatures were prepainted and of similar quality as Arkham/X-wing. To me this is a choice between buying the game where all components are of sufficent standard, or moving on.

As a last thought, if the miniatures in this game were prepainted instead of unpainted, it is my hypothesis (but I may be wrong), that it would appeal more widely to many more consumers and consequently many more games would be sold. Which in turn would mean that the per unit production cost would be smaller, thus for the same profit to FFG per game, the game could be sold cheaper to us.  

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11 minutes ago, Sciencius said:

Nobody has said anything about accepting a substandard paint job - this is FFG not Wiz Kids afterall ;-D ;-D 

But the Investigators from the Arkham line, the normal human sized miniatures are not that good looking (at least judging from the store pictures) and I wouldn't call them beatufil, yes the worm you have shown looks better but that is a bigger mini which can be easier to paint but for Fallout we have to look at the human sized minis and for them I wouldn't want pay 20$ or more extra.

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The comparison between painted or unpainted mini's and card or board quality is not an analogous comparison. Cards and boards, the artwork is done on computer and printed out by machine, the only difference in quality is cost of material. Painting the mini's would take skilled labour by hand. A proper comparison for minis would be the material used and level of detail on the sculpt.

It's fine that you place a high importance on the minis being painted but frankly I think you're highly overestimating the importance most people put on it. A good paint on my mini's is cool, but for most board games the mini's being painted or not is not a very important issue(specifically board games with mini's. A game that is entirely miniatures is a different issue.)

X-wing having painted mini's is actually the exception for FFG and not the rule. Most of their mini's in their board games are unpainted. The painted figures for their Arkham Horror line of games are only available as a premium separate product and do not come with the games.

Edited by mwmcintyre

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3 hours ago, Iceeagle85 said:

But the Investigators from the Arkham line, the normal human sized miniatures are not that good looking (at least judging from the store pictures) and I wouldn't call them beatufil, yes the worm you have shown looks better but that is a bigger mini which can be easier to paint but for Fallout we have to look at the human sized minis and for them I wouldn't want pay 20$ or more extra.

 

3 hours ago, mwmcintyre said:

The comparison between painted or unpainted mini's and card or board quality is not an analogous comparison. Cards and boards, the artwork is done on computer and printed out by machine, the only difference in quality is cost of material. Painting the mini's would take skilled labour by hand. A proper comparison for minis would be the material used and level of detail on the sculpt.

X-wing having painted mini's is actually the exception for FFG and not the rule. Most of their mini's in their board games are unpainted. The painted figures for their Arkham Horror line of games are only available as a premium separate product and do not come with the games.

but we have already been through these points in earlier posts, they need not be painted by hand, irregardless of size (X-wing is not painted by hand). The paint job can applied by different machine-applied paint-mapping methods (also faces and more complex figures, and I am not talking about 3D printing) - just as what is done in the toy-industry for many years at low cost - with acceptable results. 
 

3 hours ago, mwmcintyre said:

It's fine that you place a high importance on the minis being painted but frankly I think you're highly overestimating the importance most people put on it. A good paint on my mini's is cool, but for most board games the mini's being painted or not is not a very important issue(specifically board games with mini's. A game that is entirely miniatures is a different issue.)

That may be entirely true. As is, this merely represents my own disappointment when I look at a game such as this (and others from FFG).  

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50 minutes ago, Sciencius said:

but we have already been through these points in earlier posts, they need not be painted by hand, irregardless of size (X-wing is not painted by hand). The paint job can applied by different machine-applied paint-mapping methods (also faces and more complex figures, and I am not talking about 3D printing) - just as what is done in the toy-industry for many years at low cost - with acceptable results. 

Comparing the miniatures used with action figures and other toys is a false equivalency, which is what I was trying to illustrate earlier. Action figures, as an example, (1) are often composed of multiple parts, and can be manufactured in the desired colors, (2) when parts do require painting, the parts are often much larger, requiring far less finesse from the assembler or just a quick spray painting, and (3) despite their greater size, the detailing is often far simpler than the miniatures used by FFG, unless you're getting into collector's quality material, and that can be hit or miss, to say the least. Grievous manufacturing and assembling mistakes are known to happen, which can be a real money sink for the company if they have to replace them.

I get that having decent quality pre-painted miniatures would be nice. However, the means to achieve this, hand painting, is prohibitively expensive and doesn't ensure quality. The technology to produce the miniatures in the same size and quality but without the need for painting would either be prohibitively expensive as well, but I imagine it doesn't even exist yet.

And I did see the picture of the worm.

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10 hours ago, Sciencius said:

The choice here is between beautiful prepainted miniatures (in a more expensive game), compared to unpainted miniatures. Personally I would be happy to pay $80 for this game if the miniatures were prepainted and of similar quality as Arkham/X-wing.

Whereas I personally am not willing to pay any additional money for pre-painted minis. If they want to throw them in at the same price, I'll take 'em. Otherwise, it's not worth it to me - I don't see the value.

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X wing is the first table top game I ever got into. when I was a kid I'd go to the comic shop to buy comics and I would always see the warhammer stuff on display in the back, and the big amazingly detailed battlegrounds. It always looked cool, but honestly the Painting and assembly always intimidated me. I tried a many of model and train set, trust me when I say I'm not artistic and my personal results never lived up to my own standards.

When I saw those beautiful x wing ships and did a game demo at my local store I was hooked.   X wing served as a nice gateway into gaming for the temid and we picked up Mansions of madness and started playing Destiney.

I think fallout might appeal to non table gamers and serve as a way to bring new folks into the fold. Not being painted is certainly not a deal breaker as fallout is prob my second fav thing after Star Wars. I would however jump at the opportunity to get the collector set.

 

 

 

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15 hours ago, Stew00m said:

X wing is the first table top game I ever got into. when I was a kid I'd go to the comic shop to buy comics and I would always see the warhammer stuff on display in the back, and the big amazingly detailed battlegrounds. It always looked cool, but honestly the Painting and assembly always intimidated me. I tried a many of model and train set, trust me when I say I'm not artistic and my personal results never lived up to my own standards.

When I saw those beautiful x wing ships and did a game demo at my local store I was hooked.   X wing served as a nice gateway into gaming for the temid and we picked up Mansions of madness and started playing Destiney.

I think fallout might appeal to non table gamers and serve as a way to bring new folks into the fold. Not being painted is certainly not a deal breaker as fallout is prob my second fav thing after Star Wars. I would however jump at the opportunity to get the collector set.

I totally understand what you are saying, but there is a difference.  For X-Wing and Armada, the miniatures are the game.  There is nothing else.  The painted miniatures draw your attention.  It's marketing.  It attracts your eye to get you to buy.  On top of that, seeing people play it makes it look fantastic.  If these were unpainted, the battles in stores would look bland and boring with their plain grey plastics.

For a game like Fallout, or Imperial Assault.  The miniatures are already upgraded pieces.  Wooden cubes and meeples are the standard right now...or super cheap poorly molded plastic Hasbro junk.  The highly detailed (but unpainted) pieces work fine in a board game as the pieces aren't the main draw.  There is a board, there are other pieces representing information, its not just the figures.  The figures aren't a point of interest in board games.  They aren't displayed through a hole in the box.  You won't see this getting as much play in stores as X-Wing and Armada.  So it just honestly doesn't matter.

What will be interesting is to see if the pre-painted issue matters for the new Star Wars Legion game.

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FFG has been producing high quality games for a long time now. I'm also sure they know how to make a profit from their games.

What I mean is that someone in FFG has carefully considered and has taken an informed decision to not do preainred figures for very good reasons.

Now, for those of you that would like to have the figures painted as a premium version and don't want to paint yourselves (my advice is to try anyway, because it's a great hobby) the best option you have is to use a painting service. You'll get better quality than prepainted and probably at a better price than FFG would be able to offer.

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21 hours ago, cogollo said:

FFG has been producing high quality games for a long time now. I'm also sure they know how to make a profit from their games.

What I mean is that someone in FFG has carefully considered and has taken an informed decision to not do preainred figures for very good reasons.

Now, for those of you that would like to have the figures painted as a premium version and don't want to paint yourselves (my advice is to try anyway, because it's a great hobby) the best option you have is to use a painting service. You'll get better quality than prepainted and probably at a better price than FFG would be able to offer.

Exactly what i have been saying. If you are willing to pay FFG extra for painted minis then you would be better off paying someone else as they will do a better job.

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On 9-8-2017 at 9:54 PM, RedHotDice said:

WHY can the X-wing minis be SO beautiful and these NOT?!? 

Probably because X-Wing Miniatures Game is a miniatures game (clue is in the name) and the miniatures from Fallout are just meeples.

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