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Wandering Warriors - Unicorn spoilers

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52 minutes ago, Himoto said:

Hmmmm. AJ as a Crab (though, dependable, reliable, blunt...yup), Rarity as a Crane (perfectionist, dramatic artist...check), and Rainbow Dash as Lion (Brash, honor-before-reason, a bit braggart...yeah),

But the other three? I don't see it. Pinkie is way too liked and popular to be a good Scorpion (remember, "the empire's villains" is their core identity).  I'm not sure where she goes. And, I mean...Twilight is a slightly obsessive scholar with powerful magic devoted to the established divine powers ; Fluttershy is a compassionate soul who's genuinely interested in the ways and lives of non-ponyfolk that most ponies would just ignore. I'd say Fluttershy is a Unicorn (probably an Ide), and Twilight is so thoroughly an Isawa (at least the first several seasons) it hurts. Not sure where that leaves Pinky, though. I suppose she has something of the "Weirdo outsider we don't always understand" mystic of the Togashi, mixed with a Crane's status as the empire's supreme organizers?

Now Princess Luna, post-Nightmare Moon? THAT is as close as MLP will ever have to a Scorpion. Watch over people in the dark, not fully trusted, somewhat feared...that's her schtick. While Zecora is very much a Dragon. 

(The Cutie Mark Crusaders, of course, are Yoritomo's Alliance. And Trixie has pretty strong Yoritomo tendencies too.)

(Urgh, did I really just jump into that discussion?)

I could see Zecora as Ise Zumi, and maybe Pinkie Pie as a Brotherhood of Shinsei in that she is also cryptic, and has powers that defy physics but isn't taking orders from any Dragon.

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14 hours ago, Kitsu Seinosuke said:

Can I briefly derail to mention that this always annoyed me?

Every clan worth their ceremonially-purified salt should have cavalry cards. It's not as if it's a secret technique like meishodo or ishikendo. They might not have enough to build a deck, but they should be there. If they were there, then splashing Unicorn to help them would be enormously flavourful. Sadly they aren't there, so as you point out, the splash can't be made as easily.

No. You cannot make a decent cavalry charge with the poneys the other clans use. If Unicorn is the only clan to to do, it is because their horses are akin to full-grown horses. I'm not sure they're as big as the destriers used in medieval european warfare, but most of Rokugan use poneys as mounts. They're not suited for warfare.

That's why the Utaku steeds are so prized. The rare cavalry units in clans other than Unicorn must use a hybrid breed between the rokugani "horse" and an Utaku steed they managed to earn or trade for.

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3 minutes ago, Ser Nakata said:

No. You cannot make a decent cavalry charge with the poneys the other clans use. If Unicorn is the only clan to to do, it is because their horses are akin to full-grown horses. I'm not sure they're as big as the destriers used in medieval european warfare, but most of Rokugan use poneys as mounts. They're not suited for warfare.

That's why the Utaku steeds are so prized. The rare cavalry units in clans other than Unicorn must use a hybrid breed between the rokugani "horse" and an Utaku steed they managed to earn or trade for.

I have a Halfling Cavalier who would beg to differ... ;)

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6 minutes ago, Ser Nakata said:

No. You cannot make a decent cavalry charge with the poneys the other clans use. If Unicorn is the only clan to to do, it is because their horses are akin to full-grown horses. I'm not sure they're as big as the destriers used in medieval european warfare, but most of Rokugan use poneys as mounts. They're not suited for warfare.

That's why the Utaku steeds are so prized. The rare cavalry units in clans other than Unicorn must use a hybrid breed between the rokugani "horse" and an Utaku steed they managed to earn or trade for.

While no other clan has the access to "heavy cavalry" the way the Unicorn do it is false to assume that other Samurai are not trained in using mounts in combat or to use horses for greater maneuverability.  Imagining other clans without cavalry is as foolish a vision as imagining the Unicorn with ONLY cavalry...

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That's why I said you cannot make a decent cavalry charge. Of course the other clans have "horses", but most of the time, Lions, Cranes, etc. use them as mounted infantry. That is their mounts are mainly to quickly move on the battlefield, and outmaneuver their opponents, but you most certainly won't see Lions or Cranes (or any clan other than Unicorn) stomp an infantry unit flat from the back of their horses.

I did not say other clans don't have cavalry. I said that they don't have decent cavalry, and by decent I meant capable of stomping infantry in the mud.

Edited by Ser Nakata
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13 hours ago, Ser Nakata said:

That's why I said you cannot make a decent cavalry charge. Of course the other clans have "horses", but most of the time, Lions, Cranes, etc. use them as mounted infantry. That is their mounts are mainly to quickly move on the battlefield, and outmaneuver their opponents, but you most certainly won't see Lions or Cranes (or any clan other than Unicorn) stomp an infantry unit flat from the back of their horses.

I did not say other clans don't have cavalry. I said that they don't have decent cavalry, and by decent I meant capable of stomping infantry in the mud.

So its a "no true scotsman" issue?  No "decent cavalry?"  Did I say "No purple dragons?"
Image result for no purple dragons

Edited by shosuko

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10 hours ago, Cambeul no Oni said:

You do remember that when the Unicorn left over 8000 years ago and were called the Ki-Rin, that the Utaku family was originally called the Otaku family

8000 even!

At any rate, it appears that in the new fiction, the Utaku have always borne that name. 

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7 minutes ago, shineyorkboy said:

Ah, so the Wandering Warriors page contradicts the Curved Blades page.

Indeed, the product page also goes with 800 and that math matches the 'traditional ' start dates for L5R.

I think the fiction page was a simple mistake or an 'artistic license ' kind of thing.

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4 hours ago, Ser Nakata said:

No. You cannot make a decent cavalry charge with the poneys the other clans use. If Unicorn is the only clan to to do, it is because their horses are akin to full-grown horses. I'm not sure they're as big as the destriers used in medieval european warfare, but most of Rokugan use poneys as mounts. They're not suited for warfare.

Pictured: the pony cavalry that stomped Eurasia into the mud.

221f29e69651224587cba8f244c827b1--tradit

Hilarity aside, your point is a good one: nobody except the Utaku is likely to have heavy cavalry who are capable of breaking formed, disciplined infantry. However, cavalry mobility can be as important as shock effect; and the mounted infantry and mounted archers of other clans would still possess this mobility.

When we look at the way that cavalry has been depicted in L5R thus far (both old5R and Nu5R) I'd argue that it stresses mobility rather than shock effect, and therefore ponies would be almost as effective as horses.

I expect that the Daidoji would be no strangers to using mounted raiders to strike at unexpected targets, for instance, and the Lion probably understand about using fast-deployment mounted reserves to cover sudden gaps. Rokugani would probably find Phil Sheridan and Christiaan de Wet's tactics familiar even if they found their names strange.

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5 hours ago, Ser Nakata said:

That's why the Utaku steeds are so prized. The rare cavalry units in clans other than Unicorn must use a hybrid breed between the rokugani "horse" and an Utaku steed they managed to earn or trade for.

Er... no? Utaku steeds are sacred. Sacred enough to buy an Emperor's good will. They are warhorses, size and all, born from a horse and a unicorn. In theory only battle maidens can ride them (the herd in Imperial stables not being ever ride). Altough exceptions may exist if we consider Kamoko in old L5R gifting one to Daidoji Rekai for saving her life during Hidden Emperor, which already raised many eyebrows.

Still, the other Unicorn families use the gaijin horse that certainly is better than rokugani pony (funny the Unicorn fans are called ponies, right?) and that wouldn't be that big of an issue to trade. Like to make peace with the Lion in addition to marry Altansarnai to the Ikoma family. XD

Altough from a realistic point of view, it would make sense that someone could adquire a Utaku steed, or a gaijiin horse, by simply killing the rider in an ambush or in a battlefield after the battle ends? In case of Utaku steed though, better not visit Unicorn lands ever or cross paths with someone who knows and cares.

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1 hour ago, shineyorkboy said:

The product page says they were gone for 800 years and they've been back for 200 so that would mean they left 1000 years ago.

So the error is on the preview page.

I concede the point ??

the numbers are approximations in any case

Edited by Kuni Katsuyoshi

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41 minutes ago, Kitsu Seinosuke said:

Pictured: the pony cavalry that stomped Eurasia into the mud.

221f29e69651224587cba8f244c827b1--tradit

Hilarity aside, your point is a good one: nobody except the Utaku is likely to have heavy cavalry who are capable of breaking formed, disciplined infantry. However, cavalry mobility can be as important as shock effect; and the mounted infantry and mounted archers of other clans would still possess this mobility.

When we look at the way that cavalry has been depicted in L5R thus far (both old5R and Nu5R) I'd argue that it stresses mobility rather than shock effect, and therefore ponies would be almost as effective as horses.

I expect that the Daidoji would be no strangers to using mounted raiders to strike at unexpected targets, for instance, and the Lion probably understand about using fast-deployment mounted reserves to cover sudden gaps. Rokugani would probably find Phil Sheridan and Christiaan de Wet's tactics familiar even if they found their names strange.

The Crane cavalry is called Doji's Fan....in case anyone didn't know  

 

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6 hours ago, Ser Nakata said:

No. You cannot make a decent cavalry charge with the poneys the other clans use. If Unicorn is the only clan to to do, it is because their horses are akin to full-grown horses. I'm not sure they're as big as the destriers used in medieval european warfare, but most of Rokugan use poneys as mounts. They're not suited for warfare.

That's why the Utaku steeds are so prized. The rare cavalry units in clans other than Unicorn must use a hybrid breed between the rokugani "horse" and an Utaku steed they managed to earn or trade for.

The Mongol Empire would like to have a word with you. 

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1 hour ago, Kitsu Seinosuke said:

Pictured: the pony cavalry that stomped Eurasia into the mud.

221f29e69651224587cba8f244c827b1--tradit

Hilarity aside, your point is a good one: nobody except the Utaku is likely to have heavy cavalry who are capable of breaking formed, disciplined infantry. However, cavalry mobility can be as important as shock effect; and the mounted infantry and mounted archers of other clans would still possess this mobility.

When we look at the way that cavalry has been depicted in L5R thus far (both old5R and Nu5R) I'd argue that it stresses mobility rather than shock effect, and therefore ponies would be almost as effective as horses.

I expect that the Daidoji would be no strangers to using mounted raiders to strike at unexpected targets, for instance, and the Lion probably understand about using fast-deployment mounted reserves to cover sudden gaps. Rokugani would probably find Phil Sheridan and Christiaan de Wet's tactics familiar even if they found their names strange.

To be fair, the Mongolian Horse is not truly a pony, although Western observers of the time, used to the destriers common in Europe, referred to them as such. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongolian_horse?wprov=sfsi1

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