Counters for "Fair Ship Rebels 2.0"

[eljms 243]

I'm interested in what squad lists people are finding effective against the Fair Ship Rebels list.

I've only come up against it once but it looks like a couple of people at our club are going to be flying it so I expect to face it fairly frequently in the near future.  There's an interesting write up on why the list is effective here.  In brief, the list (Biggs / Lowhhrick + Selflessness / Rex / Jess + DtF) spreads damage and makes it hard to knock out a key ship early with focus fire / alpha strike capability.  I've heard people say that TLT based lists are good against it as they deal out lots of damage one hit at a time, undermining the effectiveness of selflessness.

I wondered whether bombs might also be a good counter.

What have people found effective?

 

[Innese 2,537]

I flew against it at a recent SC and managed to go 100/0 against it, which I honestly found rather shocking after hearing how hard it is to kill. The list I was using is a tad... Out-there.

Quin Jast
Heavy Scyk
Concussion Missile
Guidance Chips
Deadeye

Sunny Bounder
Light Scyk

Palob Godalhi
Predator
TLT
4-LOM
Moldy Crow
Pulsed Shield Array

Torkil Mux
TLT
Dengar

Comes in at 100 points even. Killed Rex in a single round of fire when he was the only valid target for my HWKs, Quinn Jast chewed through Jess & Lowhhrick with repeated Concussion Missiles, then Biggs went down last. It was an interesting game where none of my opponent's ships could manage to get any solid damage in, in the end the loss of a shield on Sunny being the only hit that landed.

[Drakeheart 70]

Colonel Vessery w/ Ruthlessness, TIE/D Title, and cannon to taste, usually Tractor Beam, though I prefer Flechette or Ion for the extra damage point and ability to put Biggs and his friends in a predictable state.

Ruthlessness spreads the damage around. Even if Lowhhrick uses Selflessness, the attack still hit, and you can spread even more damage to the blasted walking carpet. Considering most of the list requires everyone to be in Range 1 of each other, Ruthlessness can rip this apart, or force an opponent to make some difficult decisions.

[eljms 243]

Yep - Ruthlessness seems like a good way to go.  Assault missiles might be an option as well for similar reasons.

@Innese - 'out there' is good, it's always fun to learn something new!  I'm going to have to do some reading before I understand your list though!

[LagJanson 7,318]

4 TIE Phantoms. Don't decloak unless significant advantage. Otherwise try to stay out of range. Final salvo to victory.

[Toimu 38]

Radio TCX did a podcast talking to someone that won a SC with the list.  He talks about the pros and cons of the list from his POV.

[Mrk1984 511]

If you're looking for counters for just this match up, Tie/D with ruthlessness is pretty decent, but it will probably be eaten by other lists. 

Munitions seem like a decent idea, get an alpha strike in, but I think range control is very important here. Ideally you want to make sure all your ships can shoot the same target(obviously always a strategy) but you can focus of one that isn't Biggs. Rex is the easy target, but the list is still very tanky without him. Jess is the heavy hitter, but her rerolls can be hard to get through (even more if at range 3 with autothrusters). You would be hard pressed to kill Lowhhrick in one pass (you need at least 12 hits to go through dice, baring selflessness or DTF). So what does that leave you with, shooting Biggs with munitions and still needing mostly crits to avoid his Droid and selflessness. I would honestly stay away from Assault Missiles. They are too expensive and just won't work against most lists. 

I would suggest that you don't necessarily build a list specifically for this match up, instead just don't joust it. Fly around, take pot shots and hopefully catch your opponent out of position. I have seen many people fly this list unsuccessfully because they either panic and break formation, bump with Lowhhrick or end up losing their range one bubble around Biggs. Take the list you want to fly, and decide how you can play without jousting. 

[blade_mercurial 2,091]

Honestly, Ion is probably the best 'all around' counter there is at the moment.  Its good against most scum and rebel lists that are currently popular.  Ion pulse missile is available on quite a few ships in all factions.  Ion cannon is less common, but still available to all factions (although best with TIE/d title).

However, other suggestions above are good too.

Edited August 7, 2017 by blade_mercurial

[Toimu 38]

FSR 2 might be it's own indirect counter.

Round 1

Player A: I'm using FSR 2.

Player B: I concede.

Round 2

Player A: I'm using FSR 2.

Player C: Me too.... Want to skip to finial salvo?

[BlodVargarna 4,041]

Is FSR 2 some kind of corporate reporting format?

[Toimu 38]

2 hours ago, BlodVargarna said:

Is FSR 2 some kind of corporate reporting format?

Nope, that is TPS reports.  Didn't you get the memo?  I'll get you another copy of the memo.

[WAC47 1,796]

18 hours ago, eljms said:

  I've heard people say that TLT based lists are good against it as they deal out lots of damage one hit at a time, undermining the effectiveness of selflessness.

 

Important to note that TLT doesn't just undermine effectiveness of selflessness but ignores it all together. Damage is directly dealt to defender, so there are no uncancelled "booms" to draw off. Just a minor point. 

As far as counters... if I found $100 lying around I'd contemplate running a z-95 swarm with thread tracers. I've been kicking around a couple of versions in my head.

8x Bandit Squadron, 4 with thread tracers.

7x Bandit Squad, 3 with thread tracers, 4 with cruise missiles  

6x Bandit Squad, 2 thread tracers, 4 cruise missiles, and Captain Rex.

The advantages over a TIE swarm are the extra hit point and looser formation (you can even split into two groups without losing effectiveness), which might mean a better match up against Nym/bombing lists. In versions 2 and 3 you get a nice alpha strike as well. 

In any case, it should do decently well against FSR because damage is coming from a lot of smaller attacks. It should chew through tokens and selflessness will only be able to draw off 1-2 hits. R4-D6 is unlikely to trigger. Again, this is all theory crafting so if someone has the Z's to put it on the table I'd appreciate it. 

[ficklegreendice 34,362]

Bombs. Bombs are good

 Hit right through basically every mechanic in the list

Just good luck approaching that ball with nym 

[Magnus Grendel 11,679]

Miranda might do rather better, though - approach from the flank and slam right across the front of them, laying down a line of cluster mines. 

[JaceDK 232]

Or sling-shot Eamon. 

[eljms 243]

I flew against it with a 'bomb benders' list that I don't think is especially competitive and did alright (took down three ships, lowhhrick still half health), so it felt like a better bombs list might work.

[Toimu 38]

Like others have said, something to counter FSR 2.0 would probably get crushed by most others.

Rexler Brath (37)
Ruthlessness (3)
Ion Cannon (3)
Assault Missiles (5)
Hull Upgrade (3)
TIE/D (0)

Colonel Vessery (35)
Ruthlessness (3)
Ion Cannon (3)
Assault Missiles (5)
Hull Upgrade (3)
TIE/D (0)

Total: 100

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

[DeathToJarJar 132]

• Vess (35)
  • TIE/D (0)
  • Ruthlessness (3)
  • Tractor Beam (1)
• Scimitar Squadron Pilot (16) x2
  • LRS (0)
  • Cruise Missiles (3)
  • EM (2)
• Scimitar Squadron Pilot (16)
  • LRS (0)
  • Cruise Missiles (3)

Ruthless Vess tractors ships out of formation and the bombers light them up. Decent alpha strike against other lists as well.

[RStan 3,621]

I've had success using Miranda/Nym. The combination of a wide variation and most effective bomb carriers along with both being able to take TLT is a very good option against FSR...until they decide to fortress and try to force a final salvo :/

Also, there was a recent SC winning Brobots list (before Wave 11 came out) that seems like it has an interesting chance. IonGs have a good set of control that hurts formation flying and messes with 1 agility ships like bomb carriers too. It has a chance with a good player to have success against the new forming meta. 

EDITED: Oh also Super Dash. Find a good partner with it that works for you and just get behind the formation for lots of damage that should eventually get through. 

Edited August 7, 2017 by RStan

[muribundi 406]

Yes, as someone said, bomb and TLT:

http://geordanr.github.io/xwing/?f=Scum and Villainy&d=v4!s!171:220,126,-1,238,-1,-1:29:-1:U.127;253:27,135,-1,-1,-1,237,-1:53:-1:U.36,u.117&sn=DeNym&obs=

With an example:
 

 

[CatchySlim 16]

Ketsu is a good counter and good against other lists.  Being able to move something away from biggs before shooting and then kill it takes away the synergies of the list.  I played it with Ketsu Dengar list and biggs was the last ship on the table.  

[Biggsy_boy 163]

I think anything highly maneuverable does well against it.  The biggest issue with that list is that it is formation flying with very little ability to adjust position.  Once you get behind the gunship, either the formation breaks, or you just chase it from behind while they can't shoot you.  They'll break formation, than you focus ships down.  The biggest problem is if you're up against a good formation flier, they will fight hard to keep you in front of them.

[ArbitraryNerd 1,009]

9 minutes ago, CatchySlim said:

Ketsu is a good counter and good against other lists.  Being able to move something away from biggs before shooting and then kill it takes away the synergies of the list.  I played it with Ketsu Dengar list and biggs was the last ship on the table.  

I don't hate this.

I've been trying Imp Alpha Strike as something decent against rest of meta, and can deal with the Junkyard (FSR), but I've had poor results.

I've been eyeballing Super Dash, but know there are a ton of more experienced Dash players in my meta, and I dislike the idea of running into them during mirrors. I'm good, but experience with a list is huge. Miranda is the same, and I have no experience with bombs, so I don't think I'd be able to get the mileage I need, and Nationals is too close for me to get enough practice in, I think.

Ketsu though... Maybe there's something I could work with there.

[ArbitraryNerd 1,009]

23 hours ago, muribundi said:

Yes, as someone said, bomb and TLT:

http://geordanr.github.io/xwing/?f=Scum and Villainy&d=v4!s!171:220,126,-1,238,-1,-1:29:-1:U.127;253:27,135,-1,-1,-1,237,-1:53:-1:U.36,u.117&sn=DeNym&obs=

With an example:
 

 

Also, like the format of the video, but the camera person desperately needs to use a stabilizer of some sort.

Edited August 8, 2017 by ArbitraryNerd

[ZealuxMyr 1,944]

Best counter I've seen is Kestral + Double Edge with Ruthlessness & TLTs. Then you throw in an additional ace (Quickdraw) with assault missiles and can take Rex off the board turn 1 as a side effect of attacking the list.