A Simple Answer to the Avenger Problem

[Deadshane 710]

Revenge on Avenger (384/400)
=========================
MC80 Star Cruiser (96 + 54)
    + General Dodonna (20)
    + Skilled First Officer (1)
    + Fire-Control Team (2)
    + Ion Cannon Batteries (5)
    + Nav Team (4)
    + XX-9 Turbolasers (5)
    + Spinal Armament (9)
    + Mon Karren (8)
Hammerhead Torpedo Corvette (36 + 9)
    + Cham Syndulla (5)
    + External Racks (3)
    + Task Force Organa (1)
Hammerhead Torpedo Corvette (36 + 4)
    + External Racks (3)
    + Task Force Organa (1)
Hammerhead Torpedo Corvette (36 + 4)
    + External Racks (3)
    + Task Force Organa (1)
Hammerhead Torpedo Corvette (36 + 4)
    + External Racks (3)
    + Task Force Organa (1)
GR-75 Medium Transports (18 + 2)
    + Comms Net (2)
Lieutenant Blount (14)
5 x Z-95 Headhunter Squadron (7)
Advanced Gunnery
Planetary Ion Cannon
Solar Corona

Missions are sort of irrelevant.  i dont see many ISD lists going first with this bid.

6 activations and going first presents a problem to Avenger lists.

Screwing Avenger is really simple...Ion cannon with sure activation thanks to Fire Control Team.  Strip that token so no boarding party.  Awwww....

Cham is there in case you worry about Squadron command spam.  Turn that stack into 3 navigate....then Ion.

This should sufficiently screw with Avenger while still being effective vs other fleets.  XX-9, spinals, Mon Carren, exterior racks everywhere with RR's granted by HH's that have already moved or out of range.  Sprinkle a few fighters in for a squadron battle and there you go.

Thoughts?  Critiques?

[Norell 1,138]

Why Dodonna and not Madine? You'll need maneuverability, especially if you use a Liberty as your heavy hitter.

Also a few OE to maximize on the ER effect?

[Ginkapo 8,527]

How does Fire Control Team ensure activation of Ion Cannon Batteries?

[Parkdaddy 626]

2 hours ago, Norell said:

Why Dodonna and not Madine? You'll need maneuverability, especially if you use a Liberty as your heavy hitter.

Also a few OE to maximize on the ER effect?

XX9 for Dodonna, and TFO for ER. 

 

10 minutes ago, Ginkapo said:

How does Fire Control Team ensure activation of Ion Cannon Batteries?

It's not really that so much as helping to increase the likelihood of getting XX9s to flip 2 faceups for Dodonna. Reduce the shields on the defending hullzone, and they only get 1 defense token. That's what I think he meant.  

I get what you mean, though. It doesn't ensure the blue crit to trigger the crit effect. Toryn far on a nearby transport would, though

[Darthain 1,747]

Obligatory needs a bigger bid by 12ish points, but that is pretty easy to make up (drop cham, XX-9 and Fire control) and you are rolling. 

 

Neat little list, looks fun. 

[Deadshane 710]

5 hours ago, Norell said:

Why Dodonna and not Madine? You'll need maneuverability, especially if you use a Liberty as your heavy hitter.

Also a few OE to maximize on the ER effect?

Nav Team supported by Comms Net.

[Deadshane 710]

2 hours ago, Ginkapo said:

How does Fire Control Team ensure activation of Ion Cannon Batteries?

If you roll 0 crits, only hits and accuracies with blues, you would still get the crit effect.  0 crit effects plus an add'l crit effect=1 crit effect. (The card effect) 

Also good for ensuring that xx-9 procs. (Assuming no red crits)

Is that an incorrect interpretation?

In this vein, im not trying to maximise critical damage.  I'm assuming the chance of 'hits' only, but still planning on stripping the token (ions), or getting the 2 face ups (xx-9).

[Ginkapo 8,527]

@Drasnighta I cant remember the logic on this one. Fire Control Teams and the zero crit.

[Green Knight 8,822]

57 minutes ago, Ginkapo said:

@Drasnighta I cant remember the logic on this one. Fire Control Teams and the zero crit.

There is no logic.

Only a mad wish that zero plus one equals one.

[Green Knight 8,822]

1 hour ago, Deadshane said:

If you roll 0 crits, only hits and accuracies with blues, you would still get the crit effect.  0 crit effects plus an add'l crit effect=1 crit effect. (The card effect) 

Also good for ensuring that xx-9 procs. (Assuming no red crits)

Is that an incorrect interpretation?

In this vein, im not trying to maximise critical damage.  I'm assuming the chance of 'hits' only, but still planning on stripping the token (ions), or getting the 2 face ups (xx-9).

It's incorrect.

You need a crit to begin with.

Once you have that crit, you can resolve an additional crit effect.

[Green Knight 8,822]

14 hours ago, Deadshane said:

Revenge on Avenger (384/400)
=========================
MC80 Star Cruiser (96 + 54)
    + General Dodonna (20)
    + Skilled First Officer (1)
    + Fire-Control Team (2)
    + Ion Cannon Batteries (5)
    + Nav Team (4)
    + XX-9 Turbolasers (5)
    + Spinal Armament (9)
    + Mon Karren (8)
Hammerhead Torpedo Corvette (36 + 9)
    + Cham Syndulla (5)
    + External Racks (3)
    + Task Force Organa (1)
Hammerhead Torpedo Corvette (36 + 4)
    + External Racks (3)
    + Task Force Organa (1)
Hammerhead Torpedo Corvette (36 + 4)
    + External Racks (3)
    + Task Force Organa (1)
Hammerhead Torpedo Corvette (36 + 4)
    + External Racks (3)
    + Task Force Organa (1)
GR-75 Medium Transports (18 + 2)
    + Comms Net (2)
Lieutenant Blount (14)
5 x Z-95 Headhunter Squadron (7)
Advanced Gunnery
Planetary Ion Cannon
Solar Corona

Missions are sort of irrelevant.  i dont see many ISD lists going first with this bid.

6 activations and going first presents a problem to Avenger lists.

Screwing Avenger is really simple...Ion cannon with sure activation thanks to Fire Control Team.  Strip that token so no boarding party.  Awwww....

Cham is there in case you worry about Squadron command spam.  Turn that stack into 3 navigate....then Ion.

This should sufficiently screw with Avenger while still being effective vs other fleets.  XX-9, spinals, Mon Carren, exterior racks everywhere with RR's granted by HH's that have already moved or out of range.  Sprinkle a few fighters in for a squadron battle and there you go.

Thoughts?  Critiques?

Once your opponent sees this coming...he doesn't need a token, he can just spend a squadron dial.

So you'd need slicer tools on top of this.

Right, so you have Cham. That helps a bit 

Edited August 5, 2017 by Green Knight

[Drasnighta 26,573]

1 hour ago, Ginkapo said:

@Drasnighta I cant remember the logic on this one. Fire Control Teams and the zero crit.

 

12 minutes ago, Green Knight said:

There is no logic.

Only a mad wish that zero plus one equals one.

 

The Problem is, we have both a desire for 0 + 1 = 1...  Precedence tells us that 1 + 1 = 1 as well, when you look at the APT/Default FCT interaction at the same time...

In short - Its a possible interpretation.  However, based purely on discussions with FFG and their responses via Email, its not the intended case.

You need to have a Crit, before you can deal an additional crit.

The additional won't exist without the first.

 

Unless you're Ozzel.  because that's been specifically stated via FAQ.

[GiledPallaeon 2,734]

4 hours ago, Drasnighta said:

Unless you're Ozzel.  because that's been specifically stated via FAQ.

What about Ozzel now?

[Drasnighta 26,573]

1 minute ago, GiledPallaeon said:

What about Ozzel now?

0+1=1 with Ozzel.

If you have Nav Teams, and resolve a Nav Token with Ozzel, then you can "give away" the speed change of the Ship (to get a point of Yaw, via Nav Teams), and still use Ozzel to change your speed "by an additional one", even though you have 0 speed changes to start with.

[GiledPallaeon 2,734]

4 minutes ago, Drasnighta said:

0+1=1 with Ozzel.

If you have Nav Teams, and resolve a Nav Token with Ozzel, then you can "give away" the speed change of the Ship (to get a point of Yaw, via Nav Teams), and still use Ozzel to change your speed "by an additional one", even though you have 0 speed changes to start with.

Note to self (further notes this affects only two ships seriously, a third technically)

[KrisWall 965]

Veteran Captain ensures that BTAvenger will always have a squadron token when needed.  For such a one trick pony list, it's important to ignore even the possibility of having tokens or dials taken away.

[Undeadguy 5,739]

16 point bid won't be large enough, especially at a massive tournament like NoVa or GenCon.

Also, Hondo make BT Avenger uncounterable. Same with Vet Captain like KrisWall said.

I also think an MC80 is not strong enough to take on an ISD. They tend to crumple fairly quickly.

[Deadshane 710]

11 hours ago, KrisWall said:

Veteran Captain ensures that BTAvenger will always have a squadron token when needed.  For such a one trick pony list, it's important to ignore even the possibility of having tokens or dials taken away.

So basically what you are saying...

IF Avenger has Hondo/Vet Captain

-AND manages to outmaneuver MC80s firing range. (Which can take him out in 2 turns)

-AND outmaneuvers the 5 smaller ships

-OR has a larger bid (doubtful)

-OR somehow capitalises on activation advantage (HIGHLY unlikely)

....that this "One Trick Pony" will prove useless.  This one trick pony list that has....

-a generous bid over many fleets

-lots of activations

-lots of guns and dice control

-decent maneuverability

-fighter support

-utility tricks

....you know, the sort of things that make lists good and able to respond to other lists.

 

Dont get me wrong.  Im all about criticism, but c'mon now.  This list isnt meant to trump Avenger, its meant to make it difficult through Admiralship....you know, make a game of it, while still being balanced for other fleets.

I think it does that, or more importantly, the 2.0 list I posted does it.  After CONSTRUCTIVE criticism.

"One trick pony", what choo gotta say about that Solo?...

"Yea.....riigght!"