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Velvetelvis

Pretty sure there's no real reason for this game to use dice anymore.

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3 hours ago, Elavion said:

Looking at meta analyzer

1. Scum

2. Rebel

3 and 4. Scum and Scum

5. Rebel

6. Rebel

7. Rebel

8. Scum

9. Rebel

10. Scum

I detect a (negative) pattern here. Good job, FFG, alienating one third of your player base.

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2 hours ago, FTS Gecko said:

I'm struggling to think of ANY miniatures game that can't function without the models.

Space Hulk?  Blood Bowl?  Armada?

Necromunda? I remember you had to measure range through the miniature's eyes, so the height of the miniature was part of the game mechanic. (I don't know if it's the same with Warhammer 40k, I never played it, but I think Necromunda was more about targets placed at different levels, so more 3D than 2D). (I would like for X-Wing to be 3D too, but I realize it would raise the complexity a lot, even just in terms of required game components).

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2 hours ago, Joe Boss Red Seven said:

Dammit don't use the acewing crap that ruined X-WING Glory in your games . Stop being a filthy power gaming monster (not saying YOU, just the bad gamers in general) that ruine everybody's else's game-fun.

 

I'd take Acewing over the laughable turretwing/JM5-wing/Bomber-wing we currently endure.

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1 hour ago, Kumagoro said:

I detect a (negative) pattern here. Good job, FFG, alienating one third of your player base.

I detect a person who takes everything they read on the internet for granted without doing their own research as long as it fits their world view.

Unlike rebels and scum, the imperials currently have a good internal balance- they don't rely on crazy combos, they just have a bunch of good ships that can be put together in many different combinations and they work. Therefore, no matter how well they do at tournaments, they don't land at the top spots simply because every winning list is different.

TIE/sf is the third best performing ship in the game, with TIE Defender at 8th. TIE Fighter is 5th, but I can't be bothered filtering out the rebel ones to see how well crackswarms do (which, by the way, also avoid Meta Analyzer's ship-based classification- there are dozens of variants with some FOs mixed in, some 7 ship ones etc.)

 

If you look at top30 pilots, 8 of those are imperials- pretty close to 1/3rd.

 

If Biggs gets nerfed in the upcoming FAQ, I'm quite confident imperials will claim the #1 spot (otherwise they'll be second, because without jumpmasters and mindlink scum will be struggling).

Edited by Elavion

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 So look, I understand the incredible advantage s the dice bring to a game ito variety and therefore longevity

But xwing's dice SUCK 

There is far too much weight attached to far too few rolls which, coupled with a complete lack of victory conditions other than KILL, make rng less about variety and more about ******* a player over with bad dice

If you want a GOOD system, I will obviously cite Armada but also warmachine/hordes. They have MORE rolls and more objectives that actually allow the player to adjust playstyle. For example, did you whiff on a crucial roll to hurt a big bad thing? Well, now you can either invest more rolls against that Target or try to cut your loses by focusing on the objectives.

In xwing, a whiffing a crucial roll to kill rau because he rolled perfect unmodified greens just means you're ******. REALLY not sad to see nym crap all over that 

Edited by ficklegreendice

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7 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

 So look, I understand the incredible advantage s the dice bring to a game ito variety and therefore longevity

But xwing's dice SUCK 

There is far too much weight attached to far too few rolls which, coupled with a complete lack of victory conditions other than KILL, make rng less about variety and more about ******* a player over with bad dice

If you want a GOOD system, I will obviously cite Armada but also warmachine/hordes. They have MORE rolls and more objectives that actually allow the player to adjust playstyle. For example, did you whiff on a crucial roll to hurt a big bad thing? Well, now you can either invest more rolls against that Target or try to cut your loses by focusing on the objectives.

In xwing, a whiffing a crucial roll to kill rau because he rolled perfect unmodified greens just means you're ******. REALLY not sad to see nym crap all over that 

I always find it odd that people look at X-Wing, the most successful miniatures game in the world right now, and say that it needs to be more like other, less successful miniatures games.

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5 minutes ago, Achowat said:

I always find it odd that people look at X-Wing, the most successful miniatures game in the world right now, and say that it needs to be more like other, less successful miniatures games.

Game is successful = OMGFLAWLESSGAME apparently

get real, man. Successful doesn't equate to it not having some rather obvious, glaring flaws. honestly, removing dice as much as possible from the equation is probably the best thing the game could do about its awful dice system

now the game has many strengths, especially the dial system and FFG's incredible model work + prepackaged paint scheme and low model count making it an incredibly easy game to get into and find players for

but it ain't perfect and therefore it ain't immune to criticism. Nothing built by human hands is. It can be improved, especially by looking at other systems

Edited by ficklegreendice

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4 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

Game is successful = OMGFLAWLESSGAME apparently

get real, man. Successful doesn't equate to it not having some rather obvious, glaring flaws. honestly, removing dice as much as possible from the equation is probably the best thing the game could do about its awful dice system

now the game has many strengths, especially the dial system and FFG's incredible model work + prepackaged paint scheme and low model count making it an incredibly easy game to get into and find players for

but it ain't perfect and therefore it ain't immune to criticism. Nothing built by human hands is. It can be improved, especially by looking at other systems

I'm not saying it's immune to criticism. I'm saying that the solutions to any problem the game may have isn't to emulate its less successful competitors.

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Cluster mines and bomblets ADD variance to X-wing as they are almost always unmodified dice. My bomblets dropped by PS8 Boba Fett are averaging about 0.6 damage per roll. (no way would I fly mainstream meta Nym) Adding Cad Bane for rerolls wouldn't help as the blanks would just reroll into more blanks. I wish Cad turned focus results into crits.

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The game has become a lot less dice focused, so it is really rewarding when you get those beautiful rolls. not too long ago I managed to roll 4 natural crit's with Ello Asty. My opponent'a ship was obliterated by additional damage crits and the blanks they rolled. I almost accomplished the same feat shortly after with 3 crits and a hit. Was glorious. 

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19 minutes ago, Achowat said:

I'm not saying it's immune to criticism. I'm saying that the solutions to any problem the game may have isn't to emulate its less successful competitors.

right, because less successful competitors do absolutely nothing better than x-wing simply because they don't sell as many units and therefore aren't successful in their own right

this thinking is highly flawed and removes a lot of potential room for growth and learning

****, I'd go so far as to say you should ALWAYS be looking at what your competitors are doing and learn from them so you can stay ahead

Edited by ficklegreendice

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The 2 cents (or appropriate local currency equivalent) of a nobody:

Just send me all your models, dials, and cards that aren't in the original trilogy and keep to the rules in the starter box.

Modifying these tabletop war/strategy games is like working on a racecar mid-race. The FAQs are like pit stops for new tires or something like that. Maybe the analogy isn't the best, but the idea is that they are trying to modify something in motion. I don't think that there is a real world EPT for game design correction

Work with friends and copy the HotAC guys. They took the game, put in a lot of hard work, and made it do what they found most fun. very likely though, others will get to enjoy your product more than you will.

Edit: I'm not responding to anyone in particular, just being a bull in a china shop.

Edited by IronOx

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1 hour ago, ficklegreendice said:

In xwing, a whiffing a crucial roll to kill rau because he rolled perfect unmodified greens just means you're ******. REALLY not sad to see nym crap all over that 

The unfortunate casualty of this is that other aces are now rendered essentially useless, too.  Anything that hits the best ace (Fenn) is going to hit the others even harder.

I'm basically giving up on the ace archetype until Nym is pushed out of the meta.  It just isn't worth it.  Can't outfly out-PSed infinite auto-damage.  Fickle green dice can be somewhat planned around.  Never even getting a meaningful green roll despite flawless flying can't.

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4 minutes ago, RampancyTW said:

The unfortunate casualty of this is that other aces are now rendered essentially useless, too.  Anything that hits the best ace (Fenn) is going to hit the others even harder.

I'm basically giving up on the ace archetype until Nym is pushed out of the meta.  It just isn't worth it.  Can't outfly out-PSed infinite auto-damage.  Fickle green dice can be somewhat planned around.  Never even getting a meaningful green roll despite flawless flying can't.

Well, PS 11 builds can deal with his crap. But I can't push Duchess that high (because ahahaha no way in **** he could catch a PS11 Duchess). Vader and Quickdraw can probably handle him with VI though (especially as they're reasonably durable otherwise).

He really sucks for the classic maneuvering glass cannon aces though, absolutely.

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8 minutes ago, RampancyTW said:

The unfortunate casualty of this is that other aces are now rendered essentially useless, too.  Anything that hits the best ace (Fenn) is going to hit the others even harder.

I'm basically giving up on the ace archetype until Nym is pushed out of the meta.  It just isn't worth it.  Can't outfly out-PSed infinite auto-damage.  Fickle green dice can be somewhat planned around.  Never even getting a meaningful green roll despite flawless flying can't.

well yeah, but aces were apparently already kind of useless prior given the number of complaints about A-SLAM allowing ACTION bomb drops on your ships before they moved

they were already a dying archetype as is, nym did not really do much to cull them in that regard. Besides, as a skew list, you gotta be prepared for god awful matchups which had already existed (such as bumpmaster manny mindlinked with Terry and Rau)

Constructively, however, I've found that phantom decloak actually makes them a fair bit more difficult to hit with nym (even at a lower ps) than any other arced-ship because they can keep back-peddling (the king of never ever getting hit bombs ever is still Dash, though). Pairing it with a deci would be a massive pain in the *** for Nym.

 

Edited by ficklegreendice

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Honestly I'd bet on a Deci to win point for point against Nym anyways due to having a metric ton of HP and superior offense. Bomblet damage is the deciding factor, but a modded deci at r1 will drop Nym in 3 volleys, Nym needs 4 to kill a deci.

Edited by Polaritie

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Just now, ficklegreendice said:

well yeah, but aces were kind of useless prior too given the number of complaints about A-SLAM allowing ACTION bomb drops on your ships before they moved

they were already a dying archetype as is, nym did not really do much to cull them in that regard. Besides, as a skew list, you gotta be prepared for god awful matchups which had already existed (such as bumpmaster manny mindlinked with Terry and Rau)

Constructively, however, I've found that phantom decloak actually makes them a fair bit more difficult to hit with nym than any other arced-ship (the king of never ever getting hit bombs ever is still Dash, though)

 

I actually disagree that they were useless due to Ks.  Ks are easier to fly against from an avoidance standpoint.  Tough matchup for sure, but much more winnable than vs. Nym.

Unfortunately Phantoms move before and shoot after Nym, so it's a major uphill battle to not get caught by autodamage and still have a shot.  I switched off of Whisper specifically to see if I could find other Aces that worked better and still functioned against the rest of the pool of ships.

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4 hours ago, Kumagoro said:

This is why the Emperor didn't need a nerf: because he was the one mitigating factor (for a steep cost) in a faction where pretty much everything else is about movement and dice rolls. It's especially infuriating when you see the other factions got to keep their own absolute effects that never fail. That was the first time when I really thought these designers don't know what they're doing.

Im mostly an empire player and glad the emperor got a nerf because he was holding back list creativity. It was always just build 71pt list and toss in palps. Same as scum and manaroo. Those ships were WAY TOO efficient to not include them. Palp works fine as he is now. Players actually have to make a decision. Before the nerf, a monkey could be taught to fly Palp Aces

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12 hours ago, LordBlades said:

 

X Wing is the only miniature game I have played where there's zero mechanics attached to the miniature itself.

Not true. Warmachine and Infinity both treat the miniatures as cylinders of specific dimensions for all purposes. You could play with just bases in either game as long as facings were marked. 

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16 minutes ago, BadMotivator said:

Not true. Warmachine and Infinity both treat the miniatures as cylinders of specific dimensions for all purposes. You could play with just bases in either game as long as facings were marked. 

You wouldn't even need to mark the facings in GW's games.

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indeed, warmachine has always been very nice about not having true line of sight (which was generally a **** show when I played it but that was 12 years ago...**** I'm old). It always has a tight rule set, a great dice system with lots of throws, and a very robust objective system

course, it has its downsides the biggest being that every model/unit comes with a boatload of extra, special rules even the cannonfodder units. They're all printed on handy reference cards, but all the abilities + interactions from support models and the warcaster make the learning curve look like a brick wall. X-wing and Armada do not have this issue

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1 hour ago, Polaritie said:

Well, PS 11 builds can deal with his crap. But I can't push Duchess that high (because ahahaha no way in **** he could catch a PS11 Duchess). Vader and Quickdraw can probably handle him with VI though (especially as they're reasonably durable otherwise).

He really sucks for the classic maneuvering glass cannon aces though, absolutely.

Yeah.  QD/Vader can deal with Nym okay, but they're going to struggle vs. a lot of other lists due to lack of damage mitigation.  Just annoying how a single ship can hard-counter an entire archetype.

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