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Totengraber

Old School Honor Dials Still Useful?

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Now that the rules have been revealed and probably most of the cards, has anyone determined a case where the old school honor dials (-19 to + 40) would not still work for counting 0-25 honor for the LCG? I still have my old Crab clan one and was considering picking up a couple of others for some friends.

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Just now, Totengraber said:

Now that the rules have been revealed and probably most of the cards, has anyone determined a case where the old school honor dials (-19 to + 40) would not still work for counting 0-25 honor for the LCG? I still have my old Crab clan one and was considering picking up a couple of others for some friends.

They'd still be useful imo. There's just several extra numbers now. I imagine we'll see some people make new and more relevant ones, hopefully with the new sleek mons.

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Just now, SHARKOSAURUS said:

They'd still be useful imo. There's just several extra numbers now. I imagine we'll see some people make new and more relevant ones, hopefully with the new sleek mons.

Extra numbers?

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You may have to get agreement to use it at a compettion as the 'take 4 fate from the other player' is quite simple when using the tokens but could be messed up if one is using tokens (and players may be suspcious that dials could be 'knocked' and would find visibly counting honor easier than having to repeatedly ask what your honour is) and the other is not. In friendly games no one would stop you and I've been using my Crane one in learning games without issue..

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7 minutes ago, Matrim said:

You may have to get agreement to use it at a compettion as the 'take 4 fate from the other player' is quite simple when using the tokens but could be messed up if one is using tokens (and players may be suspcious that dials could be 'knocked' and would find visibly counting honor easier than having to repeatedly ask what your honour is) and the other is not. In friendly games no one would stop you and I've been using my Crane one in learning games without issue..

I expect every player will have their own collection of tokens, as well as preference for what type of tokens they use.  I don't expect anyone will be "giving" tokens directly to their opponents as much as they will simply add or remove them from their collection as appropriate.

I just ordered a set of honor dials from ebay, there was a red and gold, as well as an ivory colored version and I bought both because I'm a scorpy ***** lol.  I'll call it an early birthday present :ph34r:

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1 minute ago, Bayushi Tsubaki said:

For tournaments and such? Not a chance. I imagine you'll be using FFG's tokens or be disqualified.

For casual? Anything goes.

Do you really imagine so?  I haven't played in an FFG tourny before - but I would assume that as long as the method you use is clear to read, and agreeable to your opponent, that it is okay.

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1 hour ago, Bayushi Tsubaki said:

For tournaments and such? Not a chance. I imagine you'll be using FFG's tokens or be disqualified.

For casual? Anything goes.

I think you won't be able to use the honor dials.  You don't have to use FFG's tokens, but the honor dials are too hard to read and too easily bumped, at least according to the Netrunner Tournament Regulations (Published last month).   Same reason you can't really use dice (too easily bumped).

Quoting the Tokens section in the Netrunner Tourney Regulations (GOT matches this word for word):

"Typically, players use the cardboard tokens included in official product as indicators. However, players may choose to use other items as indicators, so long as they do not obscure significant component information, are resistant to accidental modification, and their purpose of use is clear to both players. The marshal is responsible for determining the legality of an indicator and its reasonable use during a match if objected to by its owner’s opponent."

https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2017/7/19/new-clone-regulations/

 

As for using different people's tokens, I will probably offer to let my opponent use mine, so that the interaction is there without the pain of trying to "give" another person the token (Put in your pool, they take one of theirs).  You can trade/etc without worrying about whose you are using.

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People usually don't care if you use non-FFG products as long as it's quite clear how many tokens you have or what your dial is set to currently.  Though they have a right per the rules to call a marshal over for any official FFG run tournament.  The problem was usually either a person's tokens were unclear as to their current value (because they were cryptically label or a solid color and the value wasn't clearly visible or something) or it was too hard to judge whether you took the right action from across the table.  Dice in particular were problematic (though convenient) because they could easily be bumped or set to the wrong face (intentionally or unintentionally).  Also it's very hard at a glance to read a die face from across the table.

Edited by phillos

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Well - a very good practice if you intend to take part in any high level tournament where these types of rules would be enforced is to take a note pad and pen with you, and write down every action and exchange that both you and your opponent do.  When you're in an important game this is truly the best way - this would be in addition to using any tokens, dials, or dice.

I understand the concern - I am concerned when my opponents use dice as they can be easily moved, and I don't always see the before and after numbers, so I am sometimes suspicious of miscalculations.  Still many games I play people use dice for life counters, and other stats without issue - if I were in a high level game I would not allow my opponent to use dice and I could understand not being allowed to use the honor counters.

At my LGS during regular or even tournament play I don't think there will be any issues using them though.

Edited by shosuko

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14 minutes ago, shosuko said:

Well - a very good practice if you intend to take part in any high level tournament where these types of rules would be enforced is to take a note pad and pen with you, and write down every action and exchange that both you and your opponent do.  When you're in an important game this is truly the best way - this would be in addition to using any tokens, dials, or dice.

I understand the concern - I am concerned when my opponents use dice as they can be easily moved, and I don't always see the before and after numbers, so I am sometimes suspicious of miscalculations.  Still many games I play people use dice for life counters, and other stats without issue - if I were in a high level game I would not allow my opponent to use dice and I could understand not being allowed to use the honor counters.

At my LGS during regular or even tournament play I don't think there will be any issues using them though.

Also from the netrunner tourney regulations:

"Taking Notes and Outside Material Players cannot take notes or reference outside material or information during a tournament round. However, players may reference official rule documents at any time or ask a judge for clarification from official rule documents. Official rule documents include all rules documents and inserts available on the Android: Netrunner page of our website, those found in an Android: Netrunner product, or any portion thereof"

Can't take notes.  

 

But I always felt that the dials were too easy to move and hard to read.

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Yeah FFG has had that no note taking rule for a while.  I think that was more about the concern that people would be slowing down the game because they were writing and/or referencing notes.

I've never felt the need to take notes, but I do think you want to clearly call out and walk through the steps for each round and be clear about passing whenever there is an action.  I feel like most misplays come from people rushing through the round and skipping past an action window someone needed to utilize.

Edited by phillos

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4 hours ago, Bayushi Shunsuke said:

I'm all for dusting off my Honor counters, but...

They are not easy to read, unless you are the owner. They are nearly impossible to read across a table, and can easily be manipulated.

I was using mine for proxy games, but I stopped for this very reason, I kept having to ask my opponent what honour they were at.  They're awesome to look at, but sadly not that practical for the game.  I've gone to hexagonal tokens that I stole from another board game.

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