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Scorpion Spoiler: Favored Niece

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It's a tad inconvenient, but presumably you're going to play it because there's a card in your hand that you don't need/want and you think you can get something better from drawing another one anyways. Scorpion seems pretty keen so far about having cards in hand, so while hopefully they are going to have a great conflict deck, I can see them also being the most likely to have "expendable" cards where abilities like this can come in handy. 

On a side note, if Scorpion DOES like having cards in hand, I think that pushes the value of Dragon's province up a bit...could really hurt a Scorpion player who filled their hand with a bunch of cards, only to find themselves discarding back down to four. 

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2 hours ago, RandomJC said:

Biggest problem is it's a discard then draw, and not a draw then discard.

If you draw something really terrible the first time around you have another chance and you won't have a hard time choosing what you want to discard, so it still is a good ability.

Draw then discard, at no cost, up to twice per turn seems like it could be a bit too powerful.

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1 minute ago, Doji Tori said:

If you draw something really terrible the first time around you have another chance and you won't have a hard time choosing what you want to discard, so it still is a good ability.

Draw then discard, at no cost, up to twice per turn seems like it could be a bit too powerful.

That effect is very common. But even then, she can only use her ability once unless you can get it to ping twice with something like Way of the Dragon

 

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2 minutes ago, RandomJC said:

That effect is very common. But even then, she can only use her ability once unless you can get it to ping twice with something like Way of the Dragon

 

Quote

Limit X per [period]

This phrase specifies the number of times a triggered ability can be used during the designated period. This replaces the general restriction of using a triggered ability once per game round. 

Page 10 of the Rules Reference. I understood from this that abilities like the one from Favored Niece could be used multiple times on their own.

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5 minutes ago, Doji Tori said:

Page 10 of the Rules Reference. I understood from this that abilities like the one from Favored Niece could be used multiple times on their own.

So it does. Doesn't make me like discarding first.

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18 minutes ago, Prepare for War said:

Hey, you guys cycle your hand as fast as you like. Between that, a desire to draw cards fast helping contribute to self decking (and honour loss), and spending honour for benefit, and bringing that Honour-based game loss is looking like the easiest way to put Scorpions in their place.

As it should be.  It was always a bit weird in the CCG that the supposedly most dishonourable clan was the least likely to be defeated by a lack of honour. 

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I think she's very powerful. In general, being able to cycle any card from your hand is powerful in any card game; being able to do it twice every round is easily worth the subpar stats for a 3-coster IMO, while being immune to Assassination due to the higher cost. Seeing as Scorpion will likely have quite a few very expensive events and many cards in hand, she will prove invaluable to replace extra copies of expensive cards that you have no chance of playing in the current game, possibly drawing you something cheaper (not unlikely since there is a bunch of awesome 0-cost neutral events).

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1 hour ago, Eu8L1ch said:

I think she's very powerful. In general, being able to cycle any card from your hand is powerful in any card game; being able to do it twice every round is easily worth the subpar stats for a 3-coster IMO, while being immune to Assassination due to the higher cost. Seeing as Scorpion will likely have quite a few very expensive events and many cards in hand, she will prove invaluable to replace extra copies of expensive cards that you have no chance of playing in the current game, possibly drawing you something cheaper (not unlikely since there is a bunch of awesome 0-cost neutral events).

If it was a draw then discard, then that's powerful. When you discard then draw, you have a terrible situation where you could draw something less useful than the one you discarded.

I am extremely concerned with the design route of Scorpion. Very expensive events and many cards in hand doesn't really go well with each other because if you're relying too much on your hand to win conflicts, you have to be given the necessary tools to play 'em. And if they focus on expensive events, you're going to find yourself playing 1 event and then not having the resources to play the others. And with 5 characters revealed with no proactive actions, plus a stronghold that won't help you win conflicts as well, you'll be relying heavily on your actions from hand.

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26 minutes ago, Shosuro Teri said:

If it was a draw then discard, then that's powerful. When you discard then draw, you have a terrible situation where you could draw something less useful than the one you discarded.

I am extremely concerned with the design route of Scorpion. Very expensive events and many cards in hand doesn't really go well with each other because if you're relying too much on your hand to win conflicts, you have to be given the necessary tools to play 'em. And if they focus on expensive events, you're going to find yourself playing 1 event and then not having the resources to play the others. And with 5 characters revealed with no proactive actions, plus a stronghold that won't help you win conflicts as well, you'll be relying heavily on your actions from hand.

But then, if your hand is filled with expensive events that you can't play, the 'discard then draw' mechanic isn't so bad, as you can dig to find that card that you can afford.

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Generally, you don't want to design cards to alleviate bad situations done by bad design in the first place. It's like being happy you got ran over by a car so you can use the wheelchair you got for Christmas. I'd rather not get ran over in the first place.

Edited by Shosuro Teri

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I have a feeling that at least with the core set, Scorpion may find themselves wanting/needing to hard mulligan to ensure they have a copy of City of Lies in play out of the gate. Then they can at least rely on getting 1 cheaper event out of their hand per round. 

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2 minutes ago, Zesu Shadaban said:

I have a feeling that at least with the core set, Scorpion may find themselves wanting/needing to hard mulligan to ensure they have a copy of City of Lies in play out of the gate. Then they can at least rely on getting 1 cheaper event out of their hand per round. 

I've done the numbers since City of Lies got spoiled. You get 50% chances of getting it with hard mulligan. Another 50% chance to potentially get shot in the foot.

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We'll see how it pans out. My intuitive assessment says that so far Lion and Crane look strongest out of core, because of natural efficiency. When the break condition of provinces has every single point of stats being significant, there's a major advantage in a stat of 3 vs a stat of 2 for the same cost.

I think the other clans will come into their own as the card pool expands, and decks built around specific clever strategies (as opposed to generally winning conflicts and breaking provinces through decent numbers) become more viable.

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2 hours ago, Shosuro Teri said:

Generally, you don't want to design cards to alleviate bad situations done by bad design in the first place. It's like being happy you got ran over by a car so you can use the wheelchair you got for Christmas. I'd rather not get ran over in the first place.

Let every game designer engrave these words into the walls of their house.

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One thing I've noticed in this game is that the game largely revolves around board state.  There are a lot of situational things like Assassination, Route, Good Omens, ect.  You may easily have a card that will not serve you in this situation - so in this way Favored Niece is a decent cost way to thin out the useless cards.  Unfortunately she does not help you draw more, and her cost / stat efficiency is just okay pending a proper valuation of her ability.  Its tough to say how great her ability is until we see more conflict cards to know how valuable the "right card" would be.

Edited by shosuko

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