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Kumagoro

Imperial Cruises

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Thanks for the comments. I feel like I missed stating the intended battle plan, though. It is to try and have a (potentially) 15-die alpha strike to take out one ship as the first thing you do, then the actual game starts. So two ships with Cruise Missiles + one helper that doesn't fire missiles at all is not a good idea, because  it reduces the alpha strike's power; the Striker in particular can't easily go in formation with the other ships (or anything else, really). Same for Guidance Chips: you must maximize the alpha strike's efficiency, otherwise you'll be better off building a different squad. If you plan to maybe fire one missile at the first engagement, then maybe go back and fire another later, then you're better off with Proton Rockets. Your three ships have to do the Cruise Death Dance together at first, or the squad has no reason to be, as Cruise Missiles are difficult to set up, you focus on setting them up first thing, collect the spoils, then you can forget all about it, it's not a longterm strategy (of course this is all theoretical, but it's the idea behind the squad as I see it).

Also, you must be able to field your entire squad after the opponent did theirs, as much as possible. If even just one prong of your trident is fielded before the others, then the opponent will know where your entire squad will be, so they won't field anything else in front of it and you may be stuck alpha striking stuff that's not worth it.

So PS9 with an initiative bid is the bare minimum. By the time you field your PS9, the opponent will have given you enough choice, including Dengar, as @Magnus Grendel noted, provided your squad wins the initiative bid (however, Dengar will shoot against your PS9 if he's not killed first by your other ships, which he probably won't). If the opponent has one PS10, that's not an issue, you just won't target that one. It'll probably be an ace like Poe, anyway, and you want to target a less mobile, less agile, tanky ship with your alpha strike. Erase that K-Wing, or Scurrg, or Y-Wing with stressbot, or ARC, or JumpMaster, then start the game with a 91-point squad, you'll be happy.

4 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:

I'd say either Juno or Tomax

What I don't like of Juno without ATC is that I really don't think a 2-die attack does much in the current meta (at least one that doesn't come with additional penetration capability like OL's). And I really can't come around to fielding Tomax as an overcosted Scimitar Squadron Pilot.

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whatever she target locks in the first combat round ain't there anymore after eating 3 cruise missiles

That's where I feel Targeting Synchronizer becomes crucial, and not something you can toss away just because. With TS, you don't have to target lock the first engagement with all your ships. Ideally, you do it like this: you move ship #3, focus. Then you move Vader, focus & TL. Then you move QD, TL on your intended target. QD fires her missiles, uses TL+GC, reacquires TL. Vader fires using QD's TL, uses focus+his own TL+GC. Finally, ship #3 fires, uses focus+QD's TL+GC. It's almost full mods for all, math for number of hits on an attack like that has to be very good.

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Kestal is fragile, like the bomber (even more so) and you're equally unlikely to get much mileage from the pilot ability

Why do you say so? Tomax's ability is not "unlikely" to be exploited, you just can't exploit it at all. Whereas Kestal's ability is always there, he can uses it every time spending focus that way is a better call. And again, QD's Targeting Synchronizer helps with Synced Turret (if that's the chosen setup for Kestal), so focus isn't that unlikely of an action.

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More importantly, a TIE punisher's maximum forward speed is speed 3, meaning it can almost never use cruise missiles to full effect.

I believe that Deathrain suggestion was a joke? His ability is about bombs in a squad that doesn't have bombs by design, so there's literally zero reasons to choose him.

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38 minutes ago, Strikesback said:

As someone playing the Inquisator why would you not have PTL, Autothrusters, and title?

Because the squad is all about a Cruise Missiles Alpha Strike. See my post directly above this one.

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You're paying a hefty premium if your only goal is the high PS Alpha Strike.

Some of the suggestions here are trying to create a list that survives past the Alpha Strike, or doesn't die out if they can't nail the opening engagement (which, even with the PS advantage, you won't manage every game).

Sure, you can build for a high PS monster strike... but what's the point? What ship are you specifically trying to kill? Three cruise missiles is overkill vs. most anything BUT Rebel Junkyard/Fairship Rebel, which doesn't care one wit about your PS. Two cruise missiles and a third buddy should be more than enough to kill Nym, the real reason you're pushing PS11.

Pure Sabacc can actually help the Alpha Strike, as he can get up in the opponents face and block, helping you nail the range band needed for Cruise, AND he chucks five dice naturally at range one, should he have a target at that point (and, of course, doesn't take two damage cards before he shoots). And even outside range one, he's still throwing four attack dice, which is a pretty decent punch for his cost.

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31 minutes ago, ArbitraryNerd said:

Sure, you can build for a high PS monster strike... but what's the point? What ship are you specifically trying to kill? Three cruise missiles is overkill vs. most anything BUT Rebel Junkyard/Fairship Rebel, which doesn't care one wit about your PS. Two cruise missiles and a third buddy should be more than enough to kill Nym, the real reason you're pushing PS11.

Dengar. You're trying to kill Dengar, which has 9 HP, 2 agility dice and a focus (most likely). Even if you hit all 10 attack dice, he only has to evade 2 of them to survive and shoot. Also, Dash only has to evade 1. Etc. Also, if the opponent outmanouvers 1 of your missile carriers, you still have 2 cruises for an Alpha.

 

Food for thought: http://meta-wing.com/ship_combos/2076?

Vader, QS at PS 11, Inq at PS 10 with Protons, not Cruise is an interesting variation - if the enemy rushes you and manages to get into range 1, he still eats a Procket + 2 range 1 shots at least.

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52 minutes ago, Kumagoro said:

Thanks for the comments. I feel like I missed stating the intended battle plan, though. It is to try and have a (potentially) 15-die alpha strike to take out one ship as the first thing you do, then the actual game starts.

If you're fine with PS9 alpha strike and do want to use Targeting Synchronizer, may I suggest daisy-chained Swarm Tactics strategy? In this case you won't be tied to cruise missiles and can vary your ordnance load to be more flexible in your movement and more deadly in a later game? (And yes, I built this squadron to eat Dengars for lunch and the strategy is feasible).

Edited by PT106

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5 minutes ago, Rojek said:

Dengar. You're trying to kill Dengar, which has 9 HP, 2 agility dice and a focus (most likely). Even if you hit all 10 attack dice, he only has to evade 2 of them to survive and shoot. Also, Dash only has to evade 1. Etc. Also, if the opponent outmanouvers 1 of your missile carriers, you still have 2 cruises for an Alpha.

 

Food for thought: http://meta-wing.com/ship_combos/2076?

Vader, QS at PS 11, Inq at PS 10 with Protons, not Cruise is an interesting variation - if the enemy rushes you and manages to get into range 1, he still eats a Procket + 2 range 1 shots at least.

If you're trying to kill Dengar, you don't need PS 11. PS 10 does fine, or you can even go for PS 9 and an aggressive bid (though PS10 makes the most sense).

... So again, putting all these eggs in one very specific basket isn't worth it. Keeping a more reasonable spread of options/points means you can answer their surviving your Alpha, which is better than putting so much faith and so many points to making triple missiles work.

 

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2 hours ago, ArbitraryNerd said:

So again, putting all these eggs in one very specific basket isn't worth it. Keeping a more reasonable spread of options/points means you can answer their surviving your Alpha, which is better than putting so much faith and so many points to making triple missiles work.

First of all, please re-read my original post. I was trying to figure out what all those people talking about PS10 Cruise as the list that will save the Empire were talking about. So I didn't come up with this idea, I was trying to retro-engineer it. It seems very much to be a thing people are excited about, and we'll probably see it, if it's not a complete dud.

This said, I wouldn't characterize my list as "putting all my eggs in a basket". I specifically state in the pros/cons that you end up with both a Quickdraw and a Vader that are very close to the Quickdraw and Vader and you would have otherwise (so two of the best ships the Empire can field). Plus a turret ship, if you want. That's not a trio that auto-dies against whatever's left of the opponent's squad after the initial alpha strike. In fact, if the plan worked, it'd be like this: you get your full squad minus 9 points, they get their squad minus one ship. I'd take that deal.

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52 minutes ago, Kumagoro said:

Care to elaborate and list what you specifically had in mind?

There are multiple way to build the squad. I used Quickdraw (Swarm Tactics, FCS, TS, LWF, Title), Vessery(Swarm Tactics, Cruise Missile, Tractor, GC, Title) and Scimitar (EM, Plasma, GC).

I can see the argument for Expertise Quickdraw/Vader/Scimitar.

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this is my take on Alphastrike aces 

• Darth Vader
TIE Advanced  /TIE/x1 / Cruise Missiles / Veteran Instincts / Guidance Chips /Advanced Targeting Computer
40 points
• “Quickdraw”
Special Forces TIE
 
 Veteran Instincts / Fire-Control System/ Cruise Missiles /Targeting Synchronizer /Special Ops Training /Lightweight Frame
26 points
• “Omega Leader”
TIE/fo Fighter /Comm Relay / Juke
 
Omega for his late game awsomeness! 

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12 hours ago, Kumagoro said:

First of all, please re-read my original post. I was trying to figure out what all those people talking about PS10 Cruise as the list that will save the Empire were talking about. So I didn't come up with this idea, I was trying to retro-engineer it. It seems very much to be a thing people are excited about, and we'll probably see it, if it's not a complete dud.

 

And I posted the link to the list.

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1 hour ago, Celez said:

Isn't this type of squad rendered useless against fair ship rebels ? 

Yeah, the matchup's much worse, though Vader and Quickdraw should be hard to keep in arc. The alpha strike will still chunk off HP, it'll just be spread out. The massive PS11 alpha is 100% aimed at PS10 Nym.

Edited by Polaritie

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On 8/5/2017 at 1:10 PM, Kumagoro said:

And can't reach PS10.

PS8 + Veteran Instincts.

On 8/5/2017 at 3:46 PM, Celez said:

Isn't this type of squad rendered useless against fair ship rebels ? 

Yes and no. With high PS, Target Lock driven weapons, you are not restricted to targeting Biggs. 

Depending on the exact build, you can put the missiles into Jess Pava, or Thane, or Lowhhrick (depending on who has selflessness/draw their fire/whatever) and nuke them, before shooting at biggs at all. 

 

Edited by Magnus Grendel

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