Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Monkeyshine77

Balance and Consistency in 2.0

Recommended Posts

   With all of the anger surrounding the pieces of an unreleased FAQ, and all of the existing errata currently for the game I do not see new FAQs being able to patch the game effectively much longer. I believe that some sort of rule and card update will be necessary to keep the game afloat. 

   Now I had previously made a thread similar to this and had my head handed to me by others regarding what I wanted to see vs what was most realistically feasible. Hopefully I have learned enough from that so that I do not get completely shredded this time around. 

   So for 2.0 I would like to see some sort of universal point cost applied to each ship. Take into account ship stats, action bar options, maneuver dial, ps rating etc. Then stick to this for every new ship that is put out. Pilot abilities are a bit trickier, but if the cost of every generic ship is calculated and that value is used as a raw base cost for all ships then worse case scenario a unique pilot is under or overcosted by a few points rather than the mess we have now. 

   For the 2.0 revamp offer faction decks for like $25. In each deck provide enough of each generic ship to field 100 points, and the one copy of each unique pilot. You could take this opportunity to rework the pilot abilities that are OP/broken. Your could also include new title cards and possibly add ordinance dice which may help circumvent the whole licensing issue of not being able to release cards without some sort of plastic model or dice. 

   As for upgrade cards, go through and recost them all. In the 2.0 decks include stickers with the new point costs to apply over the old ones. Make sure to include a comprehensive guide as to what sticker goes to what card and for the love of God no typos. 

   It would be nice to have some semblance of balance between what ships cost and what they can do. It would be great if some sort of consistent creation system was put in place to help ensure relative balance in the future. The ordinance dice would be neat but not necessary. 

   If any of the powers that be read this I hope this helps. To my fellow players, please don't shredd me too bad. If you have a different perspective simply share it in a respectful way. 

 

-Cheers-

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Monkeyshine77 said:

  *well thought out post*

I agree, sort of. The wailing and gnashing of teeth is real, but largely the cause for that is nerd rage, not so much that the game is broken. On the other hand, a reboot WOULD enable a greater degree of balance, and an opportunity to fix a few of the inconsistencies is points/abilities.

I don't see stickers working, as there are too may opportunities for shenanigans I guess, but it certainly would be simpler. Faction packs also would be ideal, but I don't think FFG want us to be able to use 3rd party miniatures without having to buy theirs first.

No shredding mate, you put up a good post with good ideas :)

 

RoV

 

Star Wars star wars rebels hera good idea GIF

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
35 minutes ago, f0rbiddenc00kie said:

I know I'm late to the party... but is 2.0 a thing that's ACTUALLY going to happen or moreso just wishful thinking?

A mix. I think it is likely a 2.0 will come, but I think it is still a ways off. Despite the gnashing of teeth online, there are still good attendance for tournamanets and the like in my area. Some discussion of what people think should change, but we are still playing. I don't think it is time for it, but likewise a 2.0 should happen before 1.0 completely dies.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think we will see any changes to cards or cardboard unless it is 1. included in another release (i.e. Heavy Scyk reprint in epic release) or 2. as a store-kit prize card.

The undeniable fact is that these changes mostly affect competitive players who already know the FAQs, and does not represent enough of a cost/benefit for reprinting new cards.

What I COULD see would be the creation of an official FFG squad-builder app (for both web and mobile) that has constantly updated costs and abilities. This solves the nightmare of reprinting and distributing new cards, and creates one centrally moderated location for the newest updates. Extra points if they can tie it into Tome so players can save and upload their competition lists directly to the event, or at least offer a print-out option.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, nigeltastic said:

As in the other ffg star wars game... Imperial assault?

How many squares does an AT-AT move?   How about a rebel snowspeeder or Resistance Ski Speeder?  

While an AT-ST works in a small personal level combat, there are many battles that are a larger scale.   

Recent example, the battle of Scariff.   X-wings vs. AT-ACT's.  Hoth had several AT-AT's and rebel Snowspeeders.   The Last Jedi has First Order walkers vs these new speeders.   All these battles have a larger scale than Imperial Assault could handle, but could work in x-wing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, That Blasted Samophlange said:

How many squares does an AT-AT move?   How about a rebel snowspeeder or Resistance Ski Speeder?  

While an AT-ST works in a small personal level combat, there are many battles that are a larger scale.   

Recent example, the battle of Scariff.   X-wings vs. AT-ACT's.  Hoth had several AT-AT's and rebel Snowspeeders.   The Last Jedi has First Order walkers vs these new speeders.   All these battles have a larger scale than Imperial Assault could handle, but could work in x-wing.

I'd love to see an ATAT in ImpAss be a set of four 2x2 foot minis, which have to move 2 squares each at a time, in sequence, and the mission would be basically to take it down before it got to the other end of the map.  If they moved into a space witha  hero, the hero is wounded, if they move into a space with an enemy figure, it dies.

I'd also love to see a ground assault setup for x wing that would be cool.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Celestial Lizards said:

Also, GROUND ASSUALT VERSION IS NEEDED FIRST!!!

From the X-wing Miniatures Product page:

"Control the most advanced starfighters and outstanding pilots in the galaxy! In X-Wing Miniatures Game, you take the role of squad leader and command a group of merciless Imperial or daring Rebel pilots in furious ship-to-ship space combat.

Featuring stunningly detailed and painted miniatures, X-Wing recreates exciting Star Wars space battles from small engagements of only a couple of craft to large conflicts where multiple squadrons clash. Select and equip your ships, pick your crew, plan your attack, and complete your mission."

Yeah, I think you're looking for a different game, mate.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
40 minutes ago, FTS Gecko said:

From the X-wing Miniatures Product page:

"Control the most advanced starfighters and outstanding pilots in the galaxy! In X-Wing Miniatures Game, you take the role of squad leader and command a group of merciless Imperial or daring Rebel pilots in furious ship-to-ship space combat.

Featuring stunningly detailed and painted miniatures, X-Wing recreates exciting Star Wars space battles from small engagements of only a couple of craft to large conflicts where multiple squadrons clash. Select and equip your ships, pick your crew, plan your attack, and complete your mission."

Yeah, I think you're looking for a different game, mate.

I notice it says nothing about blockade runners, freighters, and corvettes.   Only starfighters, so a seperate expansion that adds a new dimension to play, like Epic, would be welcomed by many, just maybe not with those being pointlessly pedantic.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, TasteTheRainbow said:

Probably in 10-15 years. 

Then they'll be able to simply release 2.0 as a neural implant. This way, players will look at old cards and their optic nerve will be overridden by the implant so they'll see the new art, costs and text. No need to reprint anything, very eco-friendly.

Edited by Kumagoro

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, FTS Gecko said:

From the X-wing Miniatures Product page:

"Control the most advanced starfighters and outstanding pilots in the galaxy! In X-Wing Miniatures Game, you take the role of squad leader and command a group of merciless Imperial or daring Rebel pilots in furious ship-to-ship space combat.

Featuring stunningly detailed and painted miniatures, X-Wing recreates exciting Star Wars space battles from small engagements of only a couple of craft to large conflicts where multiple squadrons clash. Select and equip your ships, pick your crew, plan your attack, and complete your mission."

Yeah, I think you're looking for a different game, mate.

Still, a new edition with ground stuff would be soooo good. Right @Crabbok?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you think that 2.0 will solve X-Wing, you will be sorely disappointed.  It may clear up some current imbalances or problematic rules in the current edition but it will end up with problems of it's own -- probably at release but if not shortly thereafter.  That's because the problem with the imbalance isn't something that baked into X-Wing, it's a problem within the playtesting/developement of all FFG games (and a lot of companies in general).

Edited by AlexW

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I simultaneously would love to see a 2.0 version of the game, and yet understand that it will just make a whole bunch of new errors, and will also probably retain plenty from 1.0.  The designers consistently demonstrate that they still haven't learned some lessons that they should have by now.  (Example, TIE Aggressor second-tier generic not getting an EPT).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, mkevans80 said:

I simultaneously would love to see a 2.0 version of the game, and yet understand that it will just make a whole bunch of new errors, and will also probably retain plenty from 1.0.  The designers consistently demonstrate that they still haven't learned some lessons that they should have by now.  (Example, TIE Aggressor second-tier generic not getting an EPT).

Many of the "errors" are actually intentional choices by the FFG designers. They don't want TIE aggressor second tier generics to be used, so they are intentionally overcosted. Another clear example is the Shadow Caster generic at 33 points. The named pilots are correctly costed and the generic is overcosted because they didn't want 3x generic shadow casters to be a thing, understandably. They are definitely biased against generic pilots. Wave11 is interesting because all 3 ships have generics that are actually correctly costed, or nearly so. I've already heard of 4x Scurggs and 4x TLT Aggressors placing well at some tournaments.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
48 minutes ago, AlexW said:

If you think that 2.0 will solve X-Wing, you will be sorely disappointed.  [Stuff.]

Solving balance issues isn't the only thing I'm hoping for in 2.0.  Whatever you think of FFG's designers (and by extension, playtesters), IMO they have learned a tremendous amount about how to design a game like X-Wing, from foundations up, so that it's rock-steady as it grows.  I'm talking about things like templating, keywords, probability, upgrade combinations and permutations, and so on.

Maintaining balance is not easy.  But when you don't have to worry about the entire structure of the game collapsing because of poor language usage and unclear timing of game effects, you can concentrate a lot more on balance.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, That Blasted Samophlange said:

I notice it says nothing about blockade runners, freighters, and corvettes.   Only starfighters, so a seperate expansion that adds a new dimension to play, like Epic, would be welcomed by many, just maybe not with those being pointlessly pedantic.

All of which still fits into the "ship to ship" and "epic space battles" descriptions.

I'm on the side of "We don't need a 2.0"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On ‎8‎/‎2‎/‎2017 at 9:02 PM, Kasuvari said:

The undeniable fact is that these changes mostly affect competitive players who already know the FAQs, and does not represent enough of a cost/benefit for reprinting new cards.

New players need correct cards.  Would you buy a game you didn't know when an experienced player told you "Never mind the cards; they all almost all wrong.  But you have to have the cards to play.  And this 25-page FAQ." 

16 hours ago, FTS Gecko said:

From the X-wing Miniatures Product page:

"Control the most advanced starfighters and outstanding pilots in the galaxy! In X-Wing Miniatures Game, you take the role of squad leader and command a group of merciless Imperial or daring Rebel pilots in furious ship-to-ship space combat.

Featuring stunningly detailed and painted miniatures, X-Wing recreates exciting Star Wars space battles* from small engagements of only a couple of craft to large conflicts where multiple squadrons clash. Select and equip your ships, pick your crew, plan your attack, and complete your mission."

Yeah, I think you're looking for a different game, mate.

*Or at least all of the Star Wars battles that featured Dengar in his JM5K.

Most days I feel like I'm looking for a different game.  Ya know, the one with a heavy Star Wars-based narrative. . .

On ‎8‎/‎2‎/‎2017 at 9:20 PM, TasteTheRainbow said:

Probably in 10-15 years. 

I would be super excited to know this game will be alive in another decade!!

Edited by Darth Meanie

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My wanting a ground war game is less of it being a requirement for 2.0 and more a new option for play.   There are so many battles that take place in atmosphere that are not represented, and there are people who want this type of gameplay.   Like much of x-wing, if you want to ignore epic play, you can.  

 

As to my wanting an actual 2.0, it has less to do about fixing every issue with x-wing, as opening up new design space.   We have had 11 waves of ships, and many of the older ships would benefit from modern design intent.    Additionally, like Armada or Imperial Assault, differing dice types would open up a plethora of ships to be availiable to the game.   Right now, any ship designed runs the risk of being very similar to another.   If we introduced different defense dice and attack dice colours, these dice can represent ships with higher attack power or lower even.   Rather than adding or subtracting red dice.   Many consider the choice of a single red attack die on the HWK-290 to be a mistake.   If this was turned to a single - lets say orange die - that has more damage on it faces, you can improve the ship. Ordnance, cannons, turrets that have fallen by the wayside could be redesigned, or new ones developed.   

Ships that fill out similar roles can be represented by having more or less of any particular die. Look at the variations that armada has - you can have a star destroyer that has two or more versions and plays differently.  More variety means more ships. 

A new version, and I have said this before, could even run concurrently to the original.  Call it x-wing advanced - it uses the same models, templates, tokens etc, but adds in more gameplay options and variety.   Hardcore players will likely adopt, but new players can still play as originally designed.  

Much like any new release is not requiring you to play and purchase it, but people do.  It doesn't have to be an either or situation like most people believe.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

^^^^ Gotta like those skittles in RPG and Imperial Assault. Having a pound of rainbow colored dice can be confusing, but it allows a lot more granularity in attack power, defense, conflict resolution, etc. It's cool in those games.

Edited by Chibi-Nya

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...