3 Tactician Auzitucks? It'll never work! (also Daredevil Wulf)

[clanofwolves 4,215]

This thread is like taking a drink from a fire-hose....albeit a harry one.

When I first read your opening statement @Wazat, I really thought it was a troll job. But then I started to peruse in detail the comments, game reports and analysis, and I pleasantly found that there is some real careful thought going into these degenerate lists. I apologize for the apparent condemnation; I mean it with the upmost sincerity. Sadly, I'm a TIE Fighter and Interceptor pilot first, and so this list is in a growing line of degenerate lists set to completely irradiate Waves 1-3 from the mat for good. FFG has pulled back the reigns on a few of the steroid infused new breeds in the race, but they keep adding to the list all the while.

OK, salt over, I am at least a salty realist. I do now own an Auzituck, but I don't wish to see purchasing and much less fielding three or four of these, but I now understand the attraction in list-building these powerful ships. You guys certainly can theory-craft and I appreciate the detail and passion in which you try to break the game.

It is fun read, thanks guys; consider me duly warned of the impending disaster, haha.

Edited December 12, 2017 by clanofwolves

[Wazat 1,244]

Yea, it makes me wonder whether Auzitucks will be the level of problem we had with Jumpmasters.  I think they're a lot less potent than that, but they're quite effective and they smash through competition that wasn't expecting them (and doesn't know how to deal with them).  With triple tuck lists making it into regionals and other higher-profile events, it sounds like we'll fine out soon enough whether they're a real problem or more of a curiosity.  I suspect they're somewhere in-between.

Any thoughts on how you'd like to field your tuck?  It's quite versatile; it should do well even if you only want to fly it as a crew transport.  Just don't get stuck with only your auzituck alive... they tend to not thrive in isolation.

[Mcpolle 42]

I have been playing Tucks for a while now, and am having good success with them, have won four local tournies with them, 

 

I have been playing with lowrich, a Liberator, boh with Tactician, one with Operation specialist ,and the other with inspiring recruit, because the last ship, has turned froma tuck, to Braylan, Stress bot, three ships, that all can cause stress, and have very wide arcs, or two Arcs, 

Polle

[Wazat 1,244]

I recently (couple weeks back) played a tournament with the Wulff + 2 libs list (predator + breach + tactician), and did well save for a Miranda + Ghost list.  It turns out Harpoon Missiles plus TLT plus the ghost's heavy front blasters really hurt (who knew!) and I lost Wulff very quickly.  I killed his ghost, but a liberator followed quickly thereafter.  This was a serious problem, because now I had one healthy liberator vs a regenerating Miranda with another missile in the tube.

My opponent maddeningly kept running away, waiting for the perfect shot.  I was chipping at him a little bit at a time when I could, but the regen + C-3PO made progress on her hull very slow.  Finally he finished me with a harpoon, having gotten just the right angle for it.

It was a very frustrating match, and I really needed to play better earlier so I don't get into such a situation.  In the future, I've learned, I'd better murder Miranda first.  Ghosts are easier to finish off, and she's by far the greater threat.  Regionals are coming up, and I'd better have my head in the game!

[Red42 166]

On 12/29/2017 at 5:01 PM, Wazat said:

I recently (couple weeks back) played a tournament with the Wulff + 2 libs list (predator + breach + tactician), and did well save for a Miranda + Ghost list.  It turns out Harpoon Missiles plus TLT plus the ghost's heavy front blasters really hurt (who knew!) and I lost Wulff very quickly.  I killed his ghost, but a liberator followed quickly thereafter.  This was a serious problem, because now I had one healthy liberator vs a regenerating Miranda with another missile in the tube.

My opponent maddeningly kept running away, waiting for the perfect shot.  I was chipping at him a little bit at a time when I could, but the regen + C-3PO made progress on her hull very slow.  Finally he finished me with a harpoon, having gotten just the right angle for it.

It was a very frustrating match, and I really needed to play better earlier so I don't get into such a situation.  In the future, I've learned, I'd better murder Miranda first.  Ghosts are easier to finish off, and she's by far the greater threat.  Regionals are coming up, and I'd better have my head in the game!

Unlucky with that Ghost/Miranda matchup. How much use did you get out of Breach Specialist during the event? I think I've only triggered it once or twice the whole time I've been flying the list, and would be sorely tempted now to ditch them all and stick C-3PO on Wullffwarro so that he lasts longer if they go for him early, or make him a real pain at the end.

[Old man Shaun 0]

We have one guy flying three and he has been kicking some butt. problem seems to be end game if you only have 1 left. Low pilot skill and the lack of a K turn make them very vulnerable to aces.

 

 

[Wazat 1,244]

I'm still pretty devoted to Breach Specialist and I did use it once or twice to shed several crits at once.  The time I remember doing it, I shed Weapons Failure and Damaged Sensor Array, which would have been a hard stop to that ship's contributions.

The problem is several specific crits shut a tuck down hard: Damaged Engine, Damaged Sensor Array, Weapons Failure (tends to be worse over the long term than Blinded Pilot), and Blinded Pilot.  Red turns, missing on reinforce or focus actions, wasting several rounds with low attack power and losing your action, or even missing a whole round of combat (when you could have finished off a foe entirely)... these specific problems tend to swing matches for me, and I've been super-happy when I could just turn them facedown and stay at 100% effectiveness while wilting the enemy team.  Other crits are trouble too and worth keeping facedown, e.g. Loose Stabilizer, Console Fire, Direct Hit, and Major Explosion.

Also I suspect the RAC with Kylo crew fleets will be back during Regionals; if so it will be nice to be able to crush them again.  It made an appearance during the December tournament and was very strong against most fleets that day, but it was more or less powerless against me because I trivialized its core mechanic, and soaked enough damage that it couldn't do anything about me.

But C-3PO is very tempting on Wullff!  I'm more open to dropping Tactician on one or maybe two ships, maybe taking Breach from one.  Maybe: 3PO + Breach on Wullff, Intel Agent + Breach on Lib1, and Tacticain + Breach on Lib2.  Though that cuts down the stress power of the fleet a lot, and when that works it works really well.  I could do wullff with breach & 3PO, lib1 with "Chopper" and Tactician, and Lib2 with breach and tactician.  Or drop Wullff to Lowhhrick (even though I won't use his ability super-often, I don't use Wulff's often before death either so whatever).  Not sure if this is the right path though; 3PO is only shedding one damage per round, which is amazing when he's not taking tons of fire (e.g. mid to late game), but mediocre if he's being bombarded by the whole team in the first engagement, or by harpoon missiles.  And 3PO tends to be targeted all at once unless they have a reason to redirect.  Choices....

In the previous battle's case though, there's no way of preventing the Miranda 5-Dice harpoon from landing, other than getting lucky with the distance play and messing up her approach so she can't fire before range 1.  Because I failed at that, Wullff was guaranteed taking sizeable damage that round (plus the harpoon damage from later crits) even with 3PO's protection.  I kinda have to make my peace with the fact that nukes happen, and I need to make sure I give as well as I get.

[Wazat 1,244]

Next fleet I'm hoping to try is:

• Lowhhrick with Predator + C-3PO + Breach
• 2x Lib with Predator + Tactician + Breach

Going to have to see how it works out, but I suspect it's a solid iteration as long as I don't get tempted to fly close at the wrong times (e.g. vs Harpoons).  I may replace Breach with Intel Agent, but I'm still quite attached to it.

[theBitterFig 11,598]

Something that might be fun to try for a change of pace is Raging Auzitucks.  Wookies with zero tucks left to give.  A friend of mine used to fly this some, and it seemed brutal.  None of us flying against it really could crack it, even if it seems like it'll have maneuvering weaknesses on paper.  That said, none of us ever hit it with heavy alpha strike.

Wullffwarro (Rage, Inspiring Recruit, Kyle Katarn) (35)

Lowhhrick (Rage, IR, IR, Experimental Interface) (34)

Liberator (Rage, IR, Jan Ors) (30) - - - - Bid (1)

Lowhh still has his Reinforce for shenanigans, and Wullff gets Focus/Focus/Evade, so the only target is kinda the low-point-value Liberator.  It's not all that vulnerable to stress mechanics, since you've got so many Inspiring Recruits in the list (not all can Rage at the same time, but that'll mean a few can take white moves).  Mostly, things just get shredded by the weight of fire.

[Wazat 1,244]

4 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

Something that might be fun to try for a change of pace is Raging Auzitucks.  Wookies with zero tucks left to give.  A friend of mine used to fly this some, and it seemed brutal.  None of us flying against it really could crack it, even if it seems like it'll have maneuvering weaknesses on paper.  That said, none of us ever hit it with heavy alpha strike.

Wullffwarro (Rage, Inspiring Recruit, Kyle Katarn) (35)

Lowhhrick (Rage, IR, IR, Experimental Interface) (34)

Liberator (Rage, IR, Jan Ors) (30) - - - - Bid (1)

Lowhh still has his Reinforce for shenanigans, and Wullff gets Focus/Focus/Evade, so the only target is kinda the low-point-value Liberator.  It's not all that vulnerable to stress mechanics, since you've got so many Inspiring Recruits in the list (not all can Rage at the same time, but that'll mean a few can take white moves).  Mostly, things just get shredded by the weight of fire.

Yea, there have been some frightening Rage wookie fleets mentioned above.  This looks like the natural evolution of the wookie, manic bouts of homicidal rage and ruminating calm.    Let me know how this works out, I'd love to see the results!

I would be afraid of a Harpoon alpha strike but you may yet weather it, especially since you have so much modified firepower to return on your oppressors.  The expertise version of the fleet is so worried about incurring undue stress, and yet this one responds to the stress threat by embracing and then consuming it.

[FixingKitty 8]

So anyone here have any indications on how Triple Tucks will handle themselves against Harpoon Gunboats?
Will attend System Open in February and I have  a feeling HarpoonBoats will be there "en masse"

[Wazat 1,244]

I think heavy munitions are a problem, particularly harpoons.  They overwhelm any defense roll the tuck can throw up despite the reinforce, apply the condition, and then push through another crit for even more free damage (which may hit allies too if you're not spread out).  2 or 3 harpoons focused on one ship could be a serious problem, wiping one of your ships from the table in the first or second engagement.

Be careful about flying too close together, and play the range game.  Tucks can move very fast on the approach; if possible, avoid range 3 and then speed your way to range 1.  Make the opponent work for their locks and attack ranges.

Easier said than done though.  Also just make sure you're pushing as much damage onto ships as possible so you're putting your high HP to good use.  You have to outlive the foe and reduce their forces before they can do the same to you, and you don't want to let them reduce you to one tuck against an enemy ship (or ships) you can't properly chase and keep in arc.

[Wazat 1,244]

I just flew some rounds against Kylo and two Gamma Squadron Veterans (TIE Bombers) or Rho Squadron Pilots (Star Wings) with Deadeye and Harpoons (he started with TIE Bombers, then borrowed my star wings to try them out).  Kylo was a dangerous ace but the harpoons were the real problem.

I don't think my tucks are going to do very well at Regionals.  The meta is so harpoon-heavy, I think I'm going to be solidly mid-grade at best.  Granted, this is a really good player and he flies them very well (and quite often bests me in our matches), but it was a disturbing insight into what's to come.

I did fly the Lowhhrick fleet above, and did better when I remembered to use 3PO.  But it's still not enough.  My only hope is that fleets like that are terrible against the other meta choices, and my tucks are strong against those, so by luck I might win the meta rock-paper-scissors game. 

[Red42 166]

Anything that can punch at 4 dice or higher is a real problem for the wookiees. Especially if they can do it repeatedly, which is where gunboats especially are really dangerous being able to reload. I think their success going forward will be down to how many missiles/torpedoes there are floating around the meta. They've got game against most other things so I guess you have to hope you dodge the matchup, or get really good at managing range.

[Rich P 907]

Right now, my local meta is pretty much full of triple harpoon Nu with QD or Inq.

There's a few other things there, but they have made me put my Wookies back in their box as they just melt to sustained harpoon assaults.

[Wazat 1,244]

I suspect a lot of fleets out there are being shelved for similar reasons...  Munitions alpha strikes are back, and stronger than ever.  At least it's not compounded with the Jumpmaster's dial and specs!

[Rich P 907]

It's going to be an interesting meta call in the latter half of regionals season ... as Wookies are really strong against the things that are good against the Nu Alpha strike lists ... High PS arc dodgers are bread and butter for Auzituck stress lists.

I'm loving where the game is right now ... it's open and it feels like anything 'good' has a shot at winning any tournament based on what else shows up that day, and how well it is played.

[Wazat 1,244]

Though there's still some slag that's not fun to fight (or even to fly, I assume).  Right now the meme is 4 Auzitucks that fly in circles for 75 minutes and win on points.  Those guys are giving us a bad name! 

[Wazat 1,244]

I did only moderately well at best at regionals, ending 3-3, 22nd out of around 57 players.  Harpoons were a big problem.  I did well against one fleet (got behind the gunboats and kept them locked down), but others reamed me.  I could have done really well against a Palp + Quickdraw + Darth Vader fleet, but when I killboxed a stressed & tokenless Vader I completely blanked out.  After that missed opportunity (and thanks to a couple of heavy munition hits) I was behind for the rest of the game and couldn't pull out of the death spiral.  I realized too late that I really should have killed Palp first, then Vader and QD.

I surprisingly struggled against Accuracy Corrector and Autoblaster Turret on Hera Ghost (with shuttle) and Captain Nym.  I messed up my initial approach, and then couldn't escape range 1 for a few rounds no matter what I did.  That Ghost is surprisingly good at shoving itself into the melee no matter how I scatter.  I spent most of that game getting raped by 4 or 5 dice primaries and the occasional 6 unavoidable autoblaster dice rounds.  I did manage to kill his ghost and the shuttle that popped out the back, and from there it was a slightly damaged Wookiee Liberator against a full health Nym.  I was despondent at that point, but ended up outmaneuvering Nym over the next few rounds and finishing him off.  It felt good turning that around.

I hope everyone has fun at regionals!  And watch for harpoon players who don't actually know what they're doing; they can be your salvation.  Give those harpoon hacks a run for their money! 

[Rich P 907]

@IamtheBendu here’s that topic

[Wazat 1,244]

Sorry to revive a dead thread, but I haven't seen or heard much about 3- or 4-Auzituck lists for a while.  Even the memes have stopped, so you know it's dead.    I stopped flying them after regionals because I like a lot of variety and got tired of flying the same fleet.  Seems like they're not happy in the harpoon-dominated landscape, and they're not all-powerful once people know how to fight them.  That's fine with me; I like the meta to not be crushed by any one fleet, and in my experience people who fought the tuck fleets really hated them.  Especially the 4-tuck fleets that ran away until time... they inspired a lot of vitriol, and I get why.

I'm curious though if anyone thinks multi-tuck fleets will enjoy a resurgence when/if FFG nerfs Harpoons.  Without that crazy burst damage dominating the meta, do you think tucks will resurface?

[theBitterFig 11,598]

I feel like the early triple Expertise/Tactician/Breach squads might not be too bad these days.  They seem like they'd line up better than many generalist squads against something like Fenn Rau or the Ghost.  Passive offensive modification, plus Reinforce probably gives them a better chance against the Ghost than many 2-agility ships would have.  Not a great one, but you'll evade a 2-hit TLT shot about a third of the time, and a Maul/Ezra ghost probably throws a 2 hit TLT... well, sometimes.  Around half the time they'll throw less than 3-hits?  And you'll auto-evade if they get really unlucky with a 1-hit attack.

But that's all just theoretical.  I don't know if folks aren't flying them because they're not as good as they were (due to worse matchups or just experience against them), or if people just switched for other reasons and they'd be strong sleeper picks.  A local player tends to fly a PS 1 Auzituck with C-3PO in a dice-control Rebel list, and it seems like it does a fair amount of work.

If swarms of low-PS Gunboats drove them out, perhaps the swarms of low-PS gunboats have perhaps left themselves.  Hard to tell.

[Rich P 907]

I think 3 Wookiees has a great matchup against the Ghost. I think stress is really good against the ghostbuster expertise lists. 

Quad wookies won a regional last weekend too. 

They’ve not gone away, just folk fly other stuff. I’m still playing around with double Wookiee Fenn and I’m unconvinced that Fenn is better in the long term than a third Auzituck 

[wurms 5,313]

My brother almost made top 8 with his triple wooks at regionals a couple weeks ago. He was 4-1 then went into his last match against his hard counter Timewalk asajj/jabba Bossk

He was 9-0 versus Ghost Fenn in testing, then never faced one at regionals, lol.

He was doing Ezra Maul Selflessness on one liberator with inspired recruit on the other liberator, and that just tears up the ghost.

[Wazat 1,244]

Ooh, so Wookies are solid Ghostbusters.  That may make some people very happy, since Ghost Fenn has been a real wrecker lately.

 

"Who ya gonna call?"

"Team Wookie!!!"