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3 Tactician Auzitucks? It'll never work! (also Daredevil Wulf)

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So I took my Lowhhrick, liberator and Braylen stress list to the UK team championship on Sunday. I went 5-1, and so did our team, and we finished second :D

 

 Lightning reflexes is amazing. Tanking their shots in the first engagement, stressing them out then setting up a kill box for them as you sloop behind them is just such fun. Oh and ships do not like multiple stress.

Lowhhrick, lightning reflexes, tactician, gunner

Liberator, lightning reflexes, tactician, operations specialist

Braylen, R3A2, gunner, title

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Then lightning reflexes happens

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Congrats!  I love lightning reflex for its ability to completely flip what a ship can do, literally and figuratively.  It's single-use and that makes it tougher for lengthy battles, but if you can killbox and surprise-finish an opponent early enough, then it pays off in spades.

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I found if I was ever down to 1 auzituck, it was almost surely game over vs most enemies. I tried Lightning Reflexes as a potential solution to that problem. Only did it a few times. I keep trying weird stuff... just did this version:

Kashyyyk Defender — Auzituck Gunship    24
Tactician    2
Operations Specialist    3
Ship Total: 29
     
Wullffwarro — Auzituck Gunship    30
Predator    3
Gunner    5
Hotshot Co-pilot    4
Ship Total: 42
     
Kashyyyk Defender — Auzituck Gunship    24
Tactician    2
Operations Specialist    3
Ship Total: 29

 

It did ok, but each time I play something other than Expertise, Breach, Tactician x3  I just end up thinking that it's not quite as good.

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The only real change I can think of is to swap Expertise for Predator. This would free up points to change to Lowhhrick + 2x Liberator.  I don't think Expertise is *THAT* much better than Predator (you lose about 0.3 of a hit when you Reinforce, and gain 0.4 a hit when you Focus), and the pilot ability seems useful.  You'll lose some flexibility in piloting by splitting PS.  However, you become much more robust against enemy stress mechanics.

I'd put Predator on one (or both, maybe) of the Liberators, keep Expertise on Lowhh.  Focus up for a slight bit more offense, and also change between taking Focus and Reinforce to try to direct the opponent's fire, trick them into splitting it. I mean, who would you shoot: the undamaged Liberator with focus, an undamaged Lowhhrick with Reinforce, or a slightly damaged Liberator with Reinforce?

Going triple Predator and Wullffwarro and 2x Liberator with BS/Tac would also fit, but it doesn't seem as interesting.  Any opponent will likely leave Wullff for last, and it won't really matter much (other than higher PS).

It's also probably easier to build the physical list for times when that matters.  Getting 2 U-Wings is kinda rough.

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Man, last post was a week ago?

Anyhow, took Tucking Tacticians to a very late Q3 tournament this afternoon.  6 players, so not that large.

Went 3-0, winning the day.  I was running Expertise/Tactician/Breach Specialist.

First game: I guess you could call it TLT aces.  Nym + Miranda + Gold Squadron, all TLT.  Nym had just Bomblets and "free stuff;" Miranda just Sabine and "free stuff," no droid on the Y.  100-33, as he kind of dodged out with Nym rather than throwing him into the teeth of the list.  I mostly chased Miranda to start, killed the Y-Wing pretty quick (with a Direct Hit for the kill... actually, that last-crit-a-DH-kill happened in each game, now that I think about it).

Second game: Standard Rey and an oddball little Wild Space Fringer with Mangler, Title, Dash-crew, and Tactical Jammer.  I lost shields on two Tucks the first round of shooting, doing only a damage or two, but second round I put 3x stress on Rey, shutting off Expertise for the rest of the game (even if the next turn when I blocked to protect my weakest tuck and got off two Range 1 shots I only did 2 damage).  She got off at least two truck-like Expertise/Finn shots, and I lost 2 ships, 100-66.  Here is where I learned first hand how f'ing amazing Breach Specialist is.

Third game: Vessery, Ryad, (both /x7 and Intensity) and Backdraft with ASTS, FCS, and LWF.  Second round of the engagement was an embarrassment of riches, as he nestled Ryad's 4K just to the side of my lead Tuck, still in my arc, though.  I had Ryad at range 1 of all my ships, Vessery at range 1 of two of them and range 2 of the 3rd, and Backdraft at range 2 of the one in the back.  He kind of had to split his fire, but I opted shoot Ryad.  I could have done healthy damage to Vess, but I figured Ryad was in a position where I was more likely to have a good shot on her next turn if I couldn't finish her off.  I did, though, when she had full HP.  Just wasn't rolling blanks.  Vess died to a last-crit DH, and Backdraft wasn't quite in position for the double-shot-dream to close things out, but

//

Takeaways, so this isn't just a bat-rep:

  • Folks think they can kinda get behind Auzitucks, like you can with a YV, but it doesn't really work that way.  Being on a small base with a mostly white dial, they aren't nearly as vulnerable as they seem.  At least not at the small kit tournament level.
  • Never skip Breach Specialist.  Never.  I would have taken so many nasty crits if I didn't have those.
  • I got a bit lucky.  Didn't roll too many blanks, at least twice when I needed to get an evade on my one green to not die that turn I got it, and a few Direct Hit kills.
  • Intensity is solid on Defenders.  Really solid.  Frequently, the Evade token goes unused (out of arc, or the opponent concentrating fire on another ship), so being able to barrel roll more freely is a big deal.  Their moves are quite limited, so being able to BR really puts them into nicer positions.
  • I ran the simpler 3x Expertise Liberator version, mostly because I wanted the one I'd make the fewest number of mistakes with.  I feel like I want to try out 2x Predator Liberators and an Expertise Lowhhrick, but once I've got a few more games under my belt with this version.  I feel like the PS all being the same really did help a lot of the time, too, and there weren't too many times when I had a strong feeling of "I'm safe, so I wish I could take offensive actions."
Edited by theBitterFig

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Nice job!  Yea, I struggle to fly without Breach Specialist too now.  Getting behind a single Tuck can be done, and it's really tough for that tuck against most foes, but you still have a lot of options to try to make that hard (as you said, mostly white dial and small base).  If you still have 2 or 3 tucks, you can spread out and make sure someone always has a shot, ideally at range 2.  This makes it really tough to escape you, and then your team can turn in and converge on the stressed victim.

 

BTW someone on the wiki was musing about maybe giving Reinforce to the Decimator (either the small or huge ship version).  With the turret, 16 hp, and imperial crew options, I figure that'd be too powerful, but maybe not?

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12 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

Man, last post was a week ago?

Congrats on the win!

I haven't run them much for a while because they're so solid and I think I know how to fly them now.  I've also slowed down on them because while there are dozens of list permutations one could try out, I think the most basic ones are the best.  I'm less of a fan of the Expertise versions, so I roll with Predator/Tactician/Breach Specialist on two liberators and Wulffwarro.  Try to bait them into shooting Wulffy (such as by taking focus actions instead of reinforce early).  Whomever draws their initial fire, just start taking focus actions with the non-damaged wookies when it makes sense.  I'd rather have all my wookies on fire, but on the board, than have one at 1-hull and two full health.

I did put Miranda and two Pred/Wookie commando liberators on the table the other day.  I think Breach is probably a better idea than the commandos, with Chopper as a second crew on one of them.  Against a pretty severe harpoon missile squad, I lost one wookie, the other was on fire, but Miranda ended with full hull and shields.  I really don't know which I like better.  The triple wookie list is scarier for anything which wants their actions, but Miranda is insurance to prevent your opponent from getting behind the wookies plus she might be the best end-game ship in the game.

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The Australian National Championships had several highly placed finishes by lists composed of 4 x Kashyyyk Defender + Wookiee Commandos. I wondered how that would perform vs. the 3 x Wookiee Liberators + Expertise + Breach Specialist + Tactician list that I tend to favor. Expected combat results including the offensive and defensive modifications for both lists starts out pretty close. The Defenders would do an expected TOTAL of 1.625 damage compared to the Liberators doing a TOTAL of 2.625. This is a moderate edge to the 3xLiberator list. It's close to even. A roughly even trade of damage would seem to favor the 4xDefenders list, unless you assume perfect focus-fire by both sides (always targeting the most damaged enemy ship). In that case, the Defenders will lose a ship to a PS Kill a before the Liberators would, and would therefore suffer a massive drop in firepower. Given that the expected damage is so low compared to the hit points of both lists, I think this match up would really come down to two factors, assuming average dice: 1) piloting, and 2) the effectiveness of Tactician. The Defenders have the possibility of blocking the Liberators to prevent Reinforce, while the Liberators have the possibility of Tactician-stressing the Defenders to prevent Reinforce. Whichever squad accomplishes this best will have the advantage. I think avoiding blocks and causing stress should in general be easier to accomplish than effective blocking, so I think in the end, although it could go either way: the 3xLiberator list is stronger - at least in the head-to-head match up. Thoughts?

Edited by Incard

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1 hour ago, Incard said:

The Australian National Championships had several highly placed finishes by lists composed of 4 x Kashyyyk Defender + Wookiee Commandos. I wondered how that would perform vs. the 3 x Wookiee Liberators + Expertise + Breach Specialist + Tactician list that I tend to favor. Expected combat results including the offensive and defensive modifications for both lists starts out pretty close. The Defenders would do an expected TOTAL of 1.625 damage compared to the Liberators doing a TOTAL of 2.625. This is a moderate edge to the 3xLiberator list. It's close to even. A roughly even trade of damage would seem to favor the 4xDefenders list, unless you assume perfect focus-fire by both sides (always targeting the most damaged enemy ship). In that case, the Defenders will lose a ship to a PS Kill a before the Liberators would, and would therefore suffer a massive drop in firepower. Given that the expected damage is so low compared to the hit points of both lists, I think this match up would really come down to two factors, assuming average dice: 1) piloting, and 2) the effectiveness of Tactician. The Defenders have the possibility of blocking the Liberators to prevent Reinforce, while the Liberators have the possibility of Tactician-stressing the Defenders to prevent Reinforce. Whichever squad accomplishes this best will have the advantage. I think avoiding blocks and causing stress should in general be easier to accomplish than effective blocking, so I think in the end, although it could go either way: the 3xLiberator list is stronger - at least in the head-to-head match up. Thoughts?

Consider also that by having a 1 ship advantage, the Defender list could gain angles of attack to deny reinforce. But, on paper, Expertise is better than Commandos (as it should be, you paid 12 points and he paid 4)

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1 hour ago, NoShieldsAllGuts said:

Consider also that by having a 1 ship advantage, the Defender list could gain angles of attack to deny reinforce. 

Yes, that's another option the Defender has in selecting maneuvers. It might be enough to tip it, but I suppose this is all hypothetical. I was just considering what I might do if I faced this match at Mandalore.

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I'm in the process of resisting the urge to buy a 4th Auzituck to allow me to run the walking carpet list ... last night I flew expertise/breach/tactician x2 and exp/breach/kanan against a Deci Vader list.  Seemed to go well, and a lot more solid feeling than the gunner variant in the low agi meta.

Looking forward to flying it more ... I've 10 games with gunner under my belt, so want to do the same with expertise ... then might try some predator and upgrading to wulf .... one thing I did learn is that Breach Specialist makes the list tick so much better ... that crit resistance is so strong with 6 hull points.  

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@Dreadai Agreed, that Breach Specialist feels so good! I whenever I try upgrading one liberator to Wullff or Lowhhrick, I end up really missing the options given by having all 3 at the same PS. Getting to choose my activation order opens my dials a tiny bit more and choosing my firing order allows me to be more effective in the combat phase. 

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I would really, really like to see more people look into Predator wookies.  I think the floor isn't that much lower than with Expertise, but the ceiling is higher.  I get the "Easy mode" approach of the standard Expertise/Tactician/Breach Liberators, but...man...with practice, I don't see how Low or Wulffy wouldn't be a better option.  Get good with firing cycles to take Focus instead of Reinforce for fully-modded attacks, mitigate damage with Low or put more through with Wulffy.  

Edited by gennataos

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So I played a 14-player reverse hangar bay tournament (opponent chooses which of your two lists you fly) this past weekend and took 3 Auzitucks as one of my two lists. Sadly out of the 4 games only 1 person was willing to go against the wookiees, and after about 30 minutes was very much regretting his choice. Ended up 100-0'ing his Dengar/Asajj list. I had Lowhhrick with Trickshot, Tactician, Gunner, then two Liberators, one with the same loadout as Lowhhrick, the other with Ops Specialist instead of Gunner. Ended up taking 2nd overall.

I really like the list, but I think the imminent arrival of Harpoon Missiles on the competitive scene will make Lowhhrick a much more risky choice. I think I'm going to switch to the Wulffwarro + 2 Liberators as a result, with the Perdator/Tactician/Breach Specialist loadout on all 3. I think Predator makes a lot of sense, as has already been said, you can start taking focus over reinforce on undamaged wookiees, and tempt the opponent to spread damage around, and you're getting double-modded attacks as well. And still has the control element of Tactician.

Edited by Red42

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Okay, so I played the Wulfwarro and 2 Liberators this evening, and defeated Nym + 2 Black Sun Aces, all with Harpoon missiles. I lost Wulf in the opening round of fire, as he took 2 Harpoons and a ranged 1 attack from one of the Black Suns, which I then killed in return. My Predator rolls were awful all game (I literally rolled 2 hits with it the entire matchup) and also a ranged 1 shot with Focus and Predator, where I promptly rolled 4 blanks. And yet thanks to Tactician piling stress on I was still eventually able to take it, with one liberator on 1 hull, the other with 4. Breach Specialist saved me a few crits as well.

So I'm pretty convinced the list is decent, being able to win even with pretty below-par dice for the most part. Need to work on my opening a little more, but I think that will come in time; not having to hug range 1 due to no Lowhhrick in the list was pretty good, giving some better arc-coverage so I definitely think this is better. And with the harpoons flying so close together is a bad idea anyway.

Edited by Red42

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Sweet!

I learned yesterday that I have a bounty on my head.  It's all in good fun, but a player in my area is offering $50 to the first player who can kill one of my tucks during Regionals.  I made that much of a splash at the Intermountain Cup after losing only 2 ships all day.  :)

So... I need to start trying some tuck variations that are less stress-vulnerable, since I expect people gunning for me to start with stressbots.  Trading Expertise for Predator and maybe even C-3PO for Kanan is a good start.  I'm also planning on giving your Wulf fleet a try sometime soon.

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1 hour ago, Red42 said:

Okay, so I played the Wulfwarro and 2 Liberators this evening, and defeated Nym + 2 Black Sun Aces, all with Harpoon missiles. I lost Wulf in the opening round of fire, as he took 2 Harpoons and a ranged 1 attack from one of the Black Suns, which I then killed in return. My Predator rolls were awful all game (I literally rolled 2 hits with it the entire matchup) and also a ranged 1 shot with Focus and Predator, where I promptly rolled 4 blanks. And yet thanks to Tactician piling stress on I was still eventually able to take it, with one liberator on 1 hull, the other with 4. Breach Specialist saved me a few crits as well.

So I'm pretty convinced the list is decent, being able to win even with pretty below-par dice for the most part. Need to work on my opening a little more, but I think that will come in time; not having to hug range 1 due to no Lowhhrick in the list was pretty good, giving some better arc-coverage so I definitely think this is better. And with the harpoons flying so close together is a bad idea anyway.

That's what these triple wookie lists do.  You end up losing a wookie, thinking things are going downhill fast, then you end up winning with all of your wookies in various states of ablaze.  I played against a falcon/norra list last night.  I put a bunch of damage on the falcon initially with Norra mostly out of the fight, but due to some bad positioning on my part and good bumping on his part, I'd lost Lowhhrick and all shields and at least two damage on both Liberators with Norra at full health.  I thought I'd lost.  I ended up blowing her up with 4 hull on one, 2 on the the other. 

Breach Specialist is an absolutely life saver and we need to enjoy it while it lasts!  Wookies are catching on!

1 hour ago, Wazat said:

Sweet!

I learned yesterday that I have a bounty on my head.  It's all in good fun, but a player in my area is offering $50 to the first player who can kill one of my tucks during Regionals.  I made that much of a splash at the Intermountain Cup after losing only 2 ships all day.  :)

So... I need to start trying some tuck variations that are less stress-vulnerable, since I expect people gunning for me to start with stressbots.  Trading Expertise for Predator and maybe even C-3PO for Kanan is a good start.  I'm also planning on giving your Wulf fleet a try sometime soon.

Hah, nice!  I'd just try with the Predator downgrade and see how that works out.  Losing Breach Specialist or tactician is scary.

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On 10/31/2017 at 4:38 PM, gennataos said:

I would really, really like to see more people look into Predator wookies.  I think the floor isn't that much lower than with Expertise, but the ceiling is higher.  I get the "Easy mode" approach of the standard Expertise/Tactician/Breach Liberators, but...man...with practice, I don't see how Low or Wulffy wouldn't be a better option.  Get good with firing cycles to take Focus instead of Reinforce for fully-modded attacks, mitigate damage with Low or put more through with Wulffy.  

This is where I think I'm headed, I just want to put more reps in on the basic list first.  I'd only flown triple tucks once before.

Some thoughts: there weren't too many times I had ships which I felt were completely safe from getting shot.  That said, if one is damaged and the other isn't, the undamaged one seems fairly safe by comparison.  The other thing is the margins are pretty thin.  0.3 damage less per Tuck with Predator and Reinforce, 0.4 damage more with Predator and Focus.  However, the stress resistance could be huge.  Lowhh/Wullff + Predator is going to have a huge advantage in a mirror match against Expertise tucks if you can get initiative.

22 hours ago, Wazat said:

Sweet!

I learned yesterday that I have a bounty on my head.  It's all in good fun, but a player in my area is offering $50 to the first player who can kill one of my tucks during Regionals.  I made that much of a splash at the Intermountain Cup after losing only 2 ships all day.  :)

So... I need to start trying some tuck variations that are less stress-vulnerable, since I expect people gunning for me to start with stressbots.  Trading Expertise for Predator and maybe even C-3PO for Kanan is a good start.  I'm also planning on giving your Wulf fleet a try sometime soon.

As to getting Kanan, that makes sense to me.  Going down to 2x tactician might be enough.  3x Predator, 3x Breach with 2xLib + Lowhh, with 2x Tactician + Kanan should be 99 points.

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I really need to get a 3rd tuck, damnit. I have been flying two tucks + friend and its been nice.

Stress Jess, and M9G8 Jess work nicely with tucks. But harpoons are a comin.

I think predator is the way to go. The jumpmaster nerf has a lot of scum players going back to asajj.

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Got completely wrecked by a Rage Auzituck build the other day.

  • Wullff with Rage, Inspiring Recruit, Kyle Katarn. (tonnes of focus tokens)
  • Lowhh with Rage, IR, IR, Experimental Interface. (Reinforce + Rage)
  • Liberator with Rage, IR, Jan Ors. (so Wullff gets an evade in addition to too many focus)

The high PS and full rerolls + Focus just thrashed me with Expertise/Tactician/Breach.  My dice weren't great, but it'd be a hard list to crack even on top-notch rolls.  Likewise, Rage goes a long way toward making someone else's dice very consistent.  I know 4x Kashyyyk Defenders was discussed vs 3x Liberators, where the higher PS and higher dice mods would make a difference over time.  Here, those same things apply.  I don't really love the fact that a Rage list locked into weak greens, though.  I wasn't able to leverage my white moves against his greens.  A better player than I might have been able to, but I think it'd still be hard.  There aren't many tools to help stay at range, and spreading out to flank risks not having all ships in the fight.  Meanwhile, his many Inspiring Recruits will allow him to skip Rage on a few ships, and clear stress on ones I target.

I'm not quite willing to switch to full-rage yet (if only because I don't have a 3rd Jumpmaster or a 2nd U-Wing), so here's what I'm thinking for a next variant:

  • Wullff with Predator, Breach Specialist, Chopper
  • Lowhh with Pred, BS, Tactician
  • Liberator with Pred, BS, Tactician

This will get the OPOP Breach Specialist, the highest reasonable PS for Auzitucks, be stress-resistant with Predator, have pilot abilities to help out, move on whites, and still have some stress control.  Not as much as triple tactician, but I think that's probably fine.  PS wars for Auzitucks?  Sigh.

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If you want to run Rage or Push the Limit on Wullff or Lowh, I would recommend Kanan Jarrus crew over Kyle Katarn (or both on Wullf with PtL). 

 

Also: I just took 1st at a 14 (?) person Q4 kit. I ran Triplibs with Expertise, Tactician and Sweet Bae Specialist. Got me some Horton alt art hooray!

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Nice work on the win @Incard  

i ran Pred/Tactician/Breach last night with the leftover points spent on Wulfwarro. 

I won 2 and lost 1 at league night. Wins against RACDraw with Kylo and a Rey Poe list.   Loss against Dengar Bossk  

Take aways for me - large base barrel roll is the most powerful counter to reinforce. Dengar just screwed me. 

Wulf acts as a target as he is a named pilot (can use this to my advantage by taking focus on the Liberators to increase damage, or spread fire)

The list seems to win, or lose quickly. And it seems to depend entirely on whether you start applying stress from the first engagement. 

Still loving it, and recently got my expertise expansion so will finally get to run out the expertise Wookiee I’ve heard so much about. 

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Any advice on how to face heavy ordnance with the triple wookies?  Yesterday I played against a Talonbane, Victor Hel, Capt Jestero list, all with Deadeye and harpoon missiles.  Granted, I spaced them out and ended up not having shots with Low or the second Liberator, but the first one was just melted.  Dice weren't on my side, but I don't think it'd have mattered....I'd have lost that first wookie on average dice with harpoons + focus + GC.  On top of that, Jestero would get a second shot after a harpoon condition triggers.

There are a couple thing to consider...

  1. I don't think a list like that would go far in a tournament of any size.  Hel and Jestero could very easily get PS killed.  That's beside the point (and the question).
  2. I know I could have set up the approach different, that was a clear fail.  I guessed he would turn in and he just went straight.  I could have moved differently to cover both options.  Live (or die?) and learn
  3. Should the wookies joust something like that and resign oneself to losing one, hoping to put through enough damage/stress to make up the difference?  
  4. Do I just need to learn to fly them better for range control?

 

Edited by gennataos

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 Sweet Bae Specialist., What is this??
I ran a three Auzituck list at our National event, and made the top 16 cut, was very unfortunate not to get thru the first round, as i made a huge mistake on which ship had what damage, flew against Dash miranda, and was very close to taking it, great game tho.

My list was Lowrich Lightning reflexes, Breach Spec

Liberator, Pred, tactician, Breach

Liberator, Pred, Tactician Breach, 

 

Was very impressed with the list, played agaist anothe trip Auz list, but they had Expertise, and I won the roll off, so I chose to have Init, and could shoot first and gave them stress, so their Expertise was turned off.

Ireally like the list, played against 4 Auz with wookie commandoes, Polish guy playing them, nice chap, lost to them, which was a shame, but still made the cut, and got my plastic crack, in the form of the National target Locks, so was a happy bunny

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