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TheHumanHydra

Unsolicited Advice

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10 hours ago, nigeltastic said:

I'm curious why you think this will be the case? From what I'm remembering isn't x-wing the current king of miniature games displacing even 40k?

What do you think the state of the game will be in 2019? What ships do you think will be released for Waves 20+, with 8 more ships for each faction between now and then?

That may seem like a long ways away, but it's an eyeblink - I've got miniatures in my cabinet that I bought in 1992 and used last only a few months ago (and could use again, if I didn't have them packed away!) The advantage of miniature gaming versus, say, video gaming is that the miniature is always there. It's always available, ready to be picked up and played with, and a good game to go with the miniature means that you'll WANT to play with it and teach others to play too.

But bad games to go with the miniature means that it gets relegated to the bits box, because a badly designed and supported game dies, and when a game dies it's nothing but a historical curiosity - ever hear of Void? Crimson Skies? Starfleet Battles? Gorkamorka? All of them were hot sellers at one point, but dropped like rocks when the design got bad (or lost the license, in the case of SFB!)

In many cases, it was because the game desperately needed a new edition, with overpowered pieces and combos removed entirely, older pieces buffed, and suspect rules removed entirely - but they refused to go to a new edition until profits started dropping, but when the profits dropped it was exponential and there was no longer money in keeping the game around. Sound familiar?

On the other hand, games that move to a new edition at the height of their popularity stick around - Bloodbowl was a MESS in first edition, but second edition was near perfect, and a liviing rulebook kept the game alive on the internet for the better part of fifteen years before its official rerelease last year. Now? I can put my goblins on the pitch again.

I called out 2019 for a specific reason. FFG got the license in 2011 and it was renewed in 2015 - that implies a 4-year term. Now, if they were going to impress Disney with its stewardship and care of the Star Wars line, then sometime later this year or early next year would be a perfect time for releasing a 2.0 version of the game, revising the pilot/upgrade system from the ground up, with a couple of years to show increasing profits.

But there would be rumblings. Rumors. Something more solid than complaints on a forum. Absent that... I have doubts.

 

Right now, the game is fine (even if I personally feel like a Wookiee Gunship is close to scraping the bottom for ideas). But I am as of yet reserving judgment on its long-term viability.

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12 hours ago, iamfanboy said:

@nigeltastic, the counterpoint I'd offer is this:

Game designers don't even LIKE the appearance of influence - avoiding the potential of impropriety was how a CGL designer termed it when we had a discussion, but more on that in a moment.

Yes, they solicit beta testing and suggestions from that; however, the notion that a fan creates an idea, thus locking the game company out of producing that idea for fear of any kind of lawsuit, has reality.

Example. Battletech is a game of the 1980s - it plays HORRIBLY, is super-clunky, and has a ton of... well, cruft in its rules. So, the current owners, Catalyst Games Labs, created a cut-down version of the game they called Alpha Strike. To give you an idea, it turned an 8.5x11 record sheet into something that fits on a playing card, that's how simplified it is, yet it still feels like Battletech while playing it, you can just play it with 36 models on a side instead of 4.

HOWEVER, the first points system they used for Alpha Strike was directly taken from Battletech, and it was a bad fit. It was comparing apples and Ferraris, that's how bad it was, but they weren't even TALKING about making a new points system publicly, much to the frustration of, well, EVERYONE.

So I took it upon myself to design my own points system. It was just simple addition and multiplication of the model's stats, and it worked really well. Everyone liked it. Took maybe 30 seconds to calculate. It was the ONLY points system for around 8 months or so. I told CGL publicly and in multiple places that they were free to use mine, I just wanted a credit and no payment whatsoever, it was fine yo, just USE IT BECAUSE IT'S WHAT THE GAME NEEDS.

THEN CGL announced their own points system, which was a really complicated set of multiple formulae and fractional multiplication and different lookups and took about 3-5 minutes to look up... and matched my results to 1-2 points with 90% of cases  out of a field with 2500+ entries. That's a FEAT, dude, that in 2 weeks I came up with something which equalled the best work of a group of game designers working over months.

A year and a half later, I was talking with a game dev in a private chat and he told me that what was released was their SECOND system. They'd come up with an addition/multiplication based formula that looked WAY too close to mine, and were forced to abandon it due to legal concerns. It... frankly, it ruined me for a couple of days. Had I unintentionally sabotaged their efforts? Done something bad?

But I bucked up as I looked back over the amount of community involvement that my Alpha Value had. I may have strengthened Alpha Strike by getting people involved, making them see there was a problem, and even if CGL put out a different points system, mine was close enough that the players were familiar with the costs.

 

The balancing point is this: I don't think FFG gives two ***** about where this game is in 5 years. I think they're not expecting their license to be renewed, and are churn-and-burning as much as they can for profit before the system is yanked from underneath them. So of course they have no reason to release an RPG mode like HoAtC or Kessel Kup or revising 100/6 to make it better, because who cares if the game is BETTER when it won't be THEIRS any more?

/facepalm  Catalyst Game Labs 
 

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11 hours ago, Joe Censored said:

The ideas put into the cards in that thread though, it is highly likely FFG would purposely avoid reusing them.  The same with many of the card ideas here. That's one reason I face palm at all the various card suggestion threads. 

They don't, though.  There's plenty of abilities and upgrades which have been released for the game which have been theorycrafted and posted on these forums.  In some instances the wording and mechanics have been almost identical.

That's not to say the devleopers are directly copying or drawing inspiration from what's posted on the forums, but it's not a coincidence either, because the players are looking at the same things the developers are, addressing the same challenges and using the same language the developers use.  It's just inevitable that we see crossover between homebrew ideas and what's actually released.

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20 hours ago, iamfanboy said:

The balancing point is this: I don't think FFG gives two ***** about where this game is in 5 years. I think they're not expecting their license to be renewed, and are churn-and-burning as much as they can for profit before the system is yanked from underneath them. So of course they have no reason to release an RPG mode like HoAtC or Kessel Kup or revising 100/6 to make it better, because who cares if the game is BETTER when it won't be THEIRS any more?

 

At the same time, though, they DID release a campaign mode for Armada.

I expect FFG is very interested in milking the Star Wars cash cow for as long as they can. 

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21 hours ago, TheHumanHydra said:

In a recent topic, blah blah blah

This has me blah blah blah

a) blah blah 

b) blah blah Gunboat blah blah blah

If the blah blah blah

* Actually, I think blah blah

All I got from this thread

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The Gunboat would only be unsolicited advice if it was a 100% fan creation. But the Gunboat's existence in prior Star Wars material would allow them to use it without liability for "stealing from the fans". Now other issues like licensing over the Gunboat from the game it originally appeared in might keep FFG from using it, but not our clamors for it's inclusion.

Likewise, asking for a Neb-B or a Hammerhead for Epic wouldn't fall under this either. Those are pre-existing things within the Star Wars universe, and as FFG makes a star wars game they would have plenty of reasons to make it. It would be impossible to prove that X poster on the Forum gave FFG the idea to make a Neb-B and thus deserves compensation.

What this would stop is someone coming up with a homebrew Ship or character, proposing the rules for that card, and then having that card magically appear for sale by FFG with the same rules and wording.

Edited by BadMotivator

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2 hours ago, drail14me said:

Y'all do realize that FFG has a forum specifically for suggestions and speculation of new titles, right? https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/forum/112-the-crystal-ball-and-the-wishing-well/

If you post an idea on these forums, FFG can use that idea.

No, I've never really explored the rest of the forums. That's great to know!

... You Gunboat guys should get in there. 

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