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Rosco74

Commiting 2 times from the same Force Power

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Hello, thanks for your time.

My question : I have a Force Rating of 3 with the new Force Power from Endless Vigil Manipulate. Can I commit a Force die and activate an ongoing effect that increase my starship Strain threshold by 3, following the next round by activating the second ongoing effect that increase my starship Hull trauma threshold by 3? ?

I have a FR of 3 so it should be possible... but I am not sure I can activate 2 ongoing effects in a single Force Power, Manipulate in this case.

thanks a lot for your inputs

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You can commit multiple dice at the same time should you choose unless the poer says otherwise (well apparently except ebb /flow , this was answered in response to someoneng questions about using enhance:brawn to get 2 or more boost on Brawn , however the same question was asked recently about ebb/flow and the answer was no you could commit 1 only for its commit effect.

So going back to enhance. In one action you could commit 3 force dice to jump from Brawn 2 to 5 , you do not need subsequent rounds to do so, though you could commit 1 die per action if you want.

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This just raise another question for me as I never read that with Enhance you could commitmore than one die... Usually the description of the Force Power clearly state if you can activate the power multiple times. 

Like Misdirect or other powers : "commit one or more Force die..."

Maybe you got wrong because in Enhance the description says the maximum is 6 for the stat, but that's just in case the character has already other buffs like cyber etc

 

Edited by Rosco74

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From then dev answered sticky on the Edge forum

Committing Force Die multiple times
Question asked by LethalDose:
The ongoing force powers allow characters to commit force dice to activate benefits. Is it possible to commit *more* force dice than is listed to receive the a greater benefit from the power? This, of course, provided the power does not explicitly forbid it. Example: A Jedi has Agi 2, Force rating 3, and Enhance with all of it's upgrades. Is it allowed for the Jedi, with a single activation of enhance's Agi control upgrade, to commit 2 (or all 3) of his force dice to said upgrade, increasing his Agi from 2 to 4 (or to 5, if all force dice are used). If not, is there *any* way for the Jedi to use Enhance's ongoing effects to increase either Brawn or Agility by *more* than one point.

Answered by Sam Stewart:
Unless the upgrade states otherwise, you may commit additional Force dice to increase the power. Thus, in your example, you may increase your Agility by as much as plus three, in the scenario you describe.
In a further response, he clarified that this is not considered multiple activations, but activating the effect once and triggering it multiple times.

 

There you are.

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Ok thanks, strange but you know, if you ask the same question the day after Sam could say the opposite, we had such issues already :-)

Anyway another good point about rules I didn't know.. so much to learn.. 

I guess with FR4 I could raise my Agi by 2 and my Brawn by 2, but if I understand it correctly, this would require 2 separate actions, as it is not the same ongoing effect ?

Thanks

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1 hour ago, Rosco74 said:

Ok thanks, strange but you know, if you ask the same question the day after Sam could say the opposite, we had such issues already :-)

Anyway another good point about rules I didn't know.. so much to learn.. 

I guess with FR4 I could raise my Agi by 2 and my Brawn by 2, but if I understand it correctly, this would require 2 separate actions, as it is not the same ongoing effect ?

Thanks

Correct each control upgrade is it's own power if you will, so would require 2 distinct actions one for brawn and one for agility 

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As a point of order, on pg. 282 of the Force and Destiny CRB in the section titled Committing Force Dice it states "While an ongoing effect is active, the character may not activate that specific ongoing effect again (the character cannot be benefiting from two "copies" of the same ongoing effect)."

Doesn't that prohibit activating the Enhance Control upgrade to increase agility multiple times, and directly contradict Sam Stewart's answer?

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17 minutes ago, FinarinPanjoro said:

As a point of order, on pg. 282 of the Force and Destiny CRB in the section titled Committing Force Dice it states "While an ongoing effect is active, the character may not activate that specific ongoing effect again (the character cannot be benefiting from two "copies" of the same ongoing effect)."

Doesn't that prohibit activating the Enhance Control upgrade to increase agility multiple times, and directly contradict Sam Stewart's answer?

I think that's referring to a player who, say has 3 FR, commits only 1 to Agility in his first round.   Then, after a few turns of stuff, decides he wants to pump more into it, instead of keeping the extra die free to use other powers.   He wouldn't be able to do that.   He would have to release the committed die, then reapply with however many die he wanted to do in one action.    

At least that's how I read that.

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I can see that as a possible way of reading it, but "the character cannot be benefiting from two "copies"of the same ongoing effect" seems like very clear language to indicate that you can't commit multiple dice to the same ongoing effect.  That seems designed to indicate that no you can't do it whether you do it in a single action or multiple (ie: one cannot use one action to commit three force dice to Brawn via Enhance or use three actions to do so one force die at a time).

Just saying, Sam is not infallible (though very talented and very likeable!)

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2 hours ago, FinarinPanjoro said:

I can see that as a possible way of reading it, but "the character cannot be benefiting from two "copies"of the same ongoing effect" seems like very clear language to indicate that you can't commit multiple dice to the same ongoing effect.  That seems designed to indicate that no you can't do it whether you do it in a single action or multiple (ie: one cannot use one action to commit three force dice to Brawn via Enhance or use three actions to do so one force die at a time).

Just saying, Sam is not infallible (though very talented and very likeable!)

That depends on what you define as a "copy".   If the power doesn't specify that you can't commit more than one die to it, then I see no reason if you have enough die, that you can't commit multiple in a single action.  

The very specific wording you quoted, simply says to me, based on how it is stated "If you've already turned this on previously, you can't turn it on a second time later."    That says nothing about whether you can commit multiple force die in a single action, to a single commit.   Those are two different things.

To use an analogy.  Let's say you are turning on a light in a room.  Once you've flipped the on switch, you can't flip it on again and get more light.  The bulb (in this case the amount of Force die you commit), is a fixed luminosity.  There is no On x 2 mode for the switch to be at to make more light.  But, if you put in a brighter bulb (commit more Force die), when you flip the switch, you get more light.   

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3 hours ago, Rosco74 said:

Yes I am still looking for an answer to the initial question hehe

 

You can absolutely do both, as long as you take two rounds to commit (one Force die in each round). The +3 system strain and +3 hull trauma are two separate upgrades of the same power, and you can have them both active at the same time. The fact that they are separate upgrades means the debate over whether you can commit twice (or more) or not isn't really relevant in the example you describe.

Edited by Krieger22

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BTW, Manipulate power stats clearly "commit one or more force dice" :)

It's a pretty awesome power, especially for ... people who ain't starfighter aces. The irony is sweet that the one force spec for piloting has already a super strong force power which requires committing dice °_^

Edited by SEApocalypse

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Also remember that committing dice is an Action and dropping a die after you've committed isn't in the RAW so a strict interpretation would be if you want to commit fewer dice in a subsequent Turn you'd have to re-commit using another Action to do it.

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Had I not read this post I would've Continued playing that if it doesn't say "one or more" that it does not function that way. However in reference to enhance I can definitely understand that. 

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