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IceQube MkII

UPDATED!!!! - US Nationals at NoVa Open: Wave 6 Rulings

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13 hours ago, Ardaedhel said:

In fact, generally people went out of their way to specify that they appreciated his forthrightness even when they disagreed with his ruling. I know I did.

Oh yeah definitely. When you decide that you are purposefully going to interpret a rule incorrectly in a major tournament because you think it is undercosted the only responsible move is to announce your intent ahead of time. The problem is that he felt like he could actually do that in the first place. He knows that it wouldn't have gone over well if done at the actual event, so it wasn't all necessarily selfless devotion to the community .

 

Edited by SloaneKettering

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2 hours ago, GiledPallaeon said:

This. This for days. @IceQube MkII, if you are ever at a tournament in Atlanta I make, your lunch is on me.

 

1 hour ago, thecactusman17 said:

@IceQube MkII, your NoVa Open lunch is on me.

Preferably before you start tallying end-of-day scores. :D

 

36 minutes ago, Audio Weasel said:

@IceQube MkII  I'll be at the NoVA Open Thursday through Sunday.  I will buy you a beer at some point during this (let me know when you need it most) because you have put up with a lot of crap so far with style and grace.  Cheers.

Mighty fine shindig. 

I'm in. 

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Im really not surprised, i was surprised people even attempted to make up a RAI for it. After the Rieekken ruling where FFG clearly said an upgrade cannot be detrimental to you or a downgrade.  The fake RAI rule would have mean with enough dices rolled, Sloane as the possibility to be a downgrade instead of a regular accuracy. There was no logic to assume enough dices would mean Sloane becomes a downgrade for one attack over a non upgraded accuracy. I think we should keep this in mind when ever we have new stuff, it cant be detrimental to you, unless its a secondary effect intended to do so and it cant be a downgrade over the regular effects.

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3 minutes ago, mintek917 said:

Im really not surprised, i was surprised people even attempted to make up a RAI for it. After the Rieekken ruling where FFG clearly said an upgrade cannot be detrimental to you or a downgrade.  The fake RAI rule would have mean with enough dices rolled, Sloane as the possibility to be a downgrade instead of a regular accuracy. There was no logic to assume enough dices would mean Sloane becomes a downgrade for one attack over a non upgraded accuracy. I think we should keep this in mind when ever we have new stuff, it cant be detrimental to you, unless its a secondary effect intended to do so and it cant be a downgrade over the regular effects.

It wasn't and isn't  a downgrade.   It is an optional alternate effect that also is now officially superior to normal accuracy in every way.  It causes lasting harm even without doing damage and also completely prevents any use of a given defense token, even when upgrades to use that token are applied. 

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2 minutes ago, thecactusman17 said:

It wasn't and isn't  a downgrade.   It is an optional alternate effect that also is now officially superior to normal accuracy in every way.  It causes lasting harm even without doing damage and also completely prevents any use of a given defense token, even when upgrades to use that token are applied. 

With enough dices rolls against aces, the pruposed RAI was a downgrade over regular accuracies.

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Nope if one is sloned then it has been spent in this attack and can't be spent again.  The other token is still fine to be used.

 

the whole issue is that people wanted the defender to be able to spend the sloned token. (Or to get the effect of the token slone is spending)

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12 minutes ago, GammonLord said:

So to clarify - if a double brace ace has one of their braces Sloane'd, they cannot spend their green brace as a token of that type has been spent that attack? Ouch.

Incorrect.

RAW:

• The defender (my emphasis) cannot spend more than one defense token of each type per attack.

So double brace aces are fine.

Scatter aces, who might want to burn that scatter aren't as happy.

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4 minutes ago, Green Knight said:

Incorrect.

RAW:

• The defender (my emphasis) cannot spend more than one defense token of each type per attack.

So double brace aces are fine.

Scatter aces, who might want to burn that scatter aren't as happy.

Awesome, was gonna say - poor Luke and friends would be melted in the first alpha strike! Cheers for clarification.

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1 hour ago, Ginkapo said:

Norra is a downgrade when you arent facing shields.

Norra is not an upgrade card, shes a unit. Shes also never a downgrade, because she has the ability to still generate the regular crit included in her cost. Sloane does not give you anything else but her effect as her cost. A better example would be if APT somehow ate the crit dice to produce its effect. It would mean when someone has no shield, it doesent do the additional damage its supposed to do over the regular crit effect.

Edited by mintek917

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1 hour ago, mintek917 said:

Norra is not an upgrade card, shes a unit. Shes also never a downgrade, because she has the ability to still generate the regular crit included in her cost. Sloane does not give you anything else but her effect as her cost. A better example would be if APT somehow ate the crit dice to produce its effect. It would mean when someone has no shield, it doesent do the additional damage its supposed to do over the regular crit effect.

Sloane is an upgrade card.

Resolving an upgrade card is voluntary.

You can spend the acc in the normal fashion is it pleases you.

So Sloane is never a downgrade.

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1 hour ago, mintek917 said:

Norra is not an upgrade card, shes a unit. Shes also never a downgrade, because she has the ability to still generate the regular crit included in her cost. Sloane does not give you anything else but her effect as her cost. A better example would be if APT somehow ate the crit dice to produce its effect. It would mean when someone has no shield, it doesent do the additional damage its supposed to do over the regular crit effect.

But APT does not do that.

Sloane is not and never was a downgrade, even during the brief time she wasn't as good as she is now.

Just stop, please.

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4 hours ago, Green Knight said:

Sloane is an upgrade card.

Resolving an upgrade card is voluntary.

You can spend the acc in the normal fashion is it pleases you.

So Sloane is never a downgrade.

While you're correct, I suspect his point was that an "alternate effect" which is (arguably) worse than the default is not really worth having.

Crit re-rolls against ships notwithstanding, of course.

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@IceQube MkII thank you for the update.

for everyone else.  this was not about winning an argument about how the rule worked.  Q originally said that his ruling was RAI over RAW for the various reasons he pointed out.  I understand his arguments and while I did not agree  with them personally, I did not agree with the fact that RAI was being  used over RAW.  This was my argument.  I am happy to see that FFG watches these things, especially before 2 premiere events, and is willing to take a stance.  This time it "went my way" but these rulings are RAW and RAW is very important for a lot of different reasons.

I am happy the designers came in and added their feedback, lets try to be civil and move on.

and @IceQube MkII ill still buy you a beer after the days over because I know how long those days can be.

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22 hours ago, mintek917 said:

With enough dices rolls against aces, the pruposed RAI was a downgrade over regular accuracies.

Then you would not be in any way prevented from using a normal Accuracy result.  In fact, if you had 3 accuracy results and 2 points of damage, you could lock both defense tokens and spend the 3rd to flip one to used.  You could even roll one acc and all crits, and (gasp) STILL SHUT OFF A DEFENSE TOKEN.  If you shoot at a ship, you have a 1/4 chance to reroll your single die (in most cases) and try for it again.  If you play Maarek Stele, you can actually reroll up to 2 dice without any other upgrades.  And thanks to Col. Jendon, you can do that twice in one activation.

It's almost like it was meant to be a side ability that wasn't a normal accuracy result.

Now the game mechanics have made it both an accuracy result  that can't be negated AND an Intel Officer all in one for 4 points over the cheapest mandatory upgrade in the Imperial fleet, congratulations.  Standard TIE fighters with a Flight Controller ship to activate them are now individually  more powerful point for point than a 19 point unique character.  Isn't that just awesome for game balance?  Aren't you just impressed by how about a third of the aces on both sides just became trash?  A-wing unique pilots?  Useless!  Ketsu Onyo and Han Solo?  Garbage!  TIE/f and TIE/In pilots?  Too bad!  Dengar and Bossk and IG-88 and Morna Kee?  Dethroned from their dizzying peaks atop the squadron world!

The ONLY unchanged units after this are now double-brace uniques.

Hey, remind me again which faction has a bunch of double-brace uniques?

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2 hours ago, Daft Blazer said:

Seems like Slaone is under costed for her ability, how much should she cost? 38pts?

maybe, i could see 28ish.  the issue is i feel motti is way undercosted.  if you are going to play JJ or Tagge why not just take motti as his ability is always on, requires no extra skill or strategy to get use out of, and is just very good.

I think a main issue with the imperial admirals is mottis cost. he should be 26-30, maybe 26 and have sloane be 28.  shes also one of the first adirmals we have gotten that does something for the game and really helps our squarons.  Before her it was really just tarkin. 

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