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migs6000

How would a 2.0 work?

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I'm not starting this thread to stir the pot on the 2.0 discussion. As X-Wing is the first miniatures game I have really gotten into, how would a major overhaul work? I know other games have multiple editions and I was curious on how it would be implemented.

 I agree to a certain point there are glaring problems with the game but I feel those could be ironed out in future releases. I just have so much swag from tournaments and such (tokens, templates, alt cards) that I really like but all of it would be useless after something like that happened?

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Based off how other games have made the transition I'd say the easiest way would be faction decks. Say for around $20 give or take you get all the updated pilot and upgrade cards for your preferred faction.

Neutral cards would probably be given out in a new starter box along with any new tokens or dice they decide to change. Personally I'd be okay with new dice as I think accuracy and damage should be separate rolls, they could just add a new type of die to use along side the current die so all our old ones don't become obsolete.

 

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I would like to see a 2.0 but I'm not sure it would necessarily fix anything.  After having had years to refine their design philosophy, the designers regularly have strokes of genius (Striker movement mechanics) followed by actual strokes in their brain (R3 Astromech).  If they're having one of the latter moments when they're working out the 2.0 revisions, the new version of the upgrade/pilot would be just as borked as it was the first go-round.  Best example is the newly-released Tie Aggressor's 2nd-tier generic not having an EPT slot.  Note that Scurgg's Lok Revenant totally does, and it's also a small ship so it can take deadeye and missiles+EM... torp boats revisited!  But Imps don't get nice things anymore for some reason.

But you didn't want to get into that, but rather, implementation.

In an ideal world, BomberGob's got it right.  In a fantasy world that has no hope of happening, they allow you to exchange old cards for new ones of the same title for no more cost than shipping (or a very very small fee if FLGS's are allowed to carry them, to cover THEIR shipping).  Not going to happen in a million years, though.

Card update packs are the way to go.

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The best model to look at would be Descent.  2.0 basically released as a big cardboard-and-cards upgrade set which rebalanced most of the heroes and monsters from the original, and the 2.0 set which introduced some new stuff and the rest of the rebalanced old stuff.

Then sets were released which further rebalanced old stuff, superseding the original upgrade kit.

If 2.0 is ever going to happen, that's how I'd expect it to happen.

I'd foresee the 2.0 kit including new dice (multiple types of attack dice to represent high accuracy low damage, and high damage low accuracy fire at the very least) probably including an ImpAss/RuneWars/Descent-style surge symbol, ideally for me, the reduction or elimination of defence dice, and a set of manoeuvre templates and rulers etc, possibly including some new manoeuvre types (a U turn move, for instance, maybe a 4 bank).

I'd also see it including bases with nubs on all 4 sides, medium bases which are 2x1, and maybe even a whole different set of templates for large ship movement - either that or runewars style front to front movement.

Edited by thespaceinvader

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If you really wanted a "slow roll" into 2.0, the first step is DIALS. Change nothing but the DIALS and this game does a complete 360.

And since so many OG players have worn/tattered dials anyhow, the new Dial Packs would be welcome... maybe.

 

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36 minutes ago, mkevans80 said:

I would like to see a 2.0 but I'm not sure it would necessarily fix anything.  After having had years to refine their design philosophy, the designers regularly have strokes of genius (Striker movement mechanics) followed by actual strokes in their brain (R3 Astromech).  If they're having one of the latter moments when they're working out the 2.0 revisions, the new version of the upgrade/pilot would be just as borked as it was the first go-round.  Best example is the newly-released Tie Aggressor's 2nd-tier generic not having an EPT slot.  Note that Scurgg's Lok Revenant totally does, and it's also a small ship so it can take deadeye and missiles+EM... torp boats revisited!  But Imps don't get nice things anymore for some reason.

But you didn't want to get into that, but rather, implementation.

In an ideal world, BomberGob's got it right.  In a fantasy world that has no hope of happening, they allow you to exchange old cards for new ones of the same title for no more cost than shipping (or a very very small fee if FLGS's are allowed to carry them, to cover THEIR shipping).  Not going to happen in a million years, though.

Card update packs are the way to go.

Lok Revenant is a unique tho

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I wouldn't mind new models... as long as the originals aren't made obsolete or incompatible (I love uodated X-wings, B-wings, and ARC-170s with moving S-foils) I like the idea of faction packs with new dials and updated pilot cards (new/fixed abilities, point cost) for ships that need them. 

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There seem to be two lines of thinking for a reboot. The first being what those above me have mentioned with a separate cardboard (and possibly plastic) rollout.  That addresses a number of issues with specific upgrades, pilots, and point costs.  The main issue I see with that approach is that there is no room to address the next boogie man to appear after the launch of 2.0 until a 3.0 later down the line. There is also a concern about models and investments being invalidated (a fair concern).

Alternatively, FFG could just address some of the rules directly in an eratta format that changes how the game is fundamentally played.  Small changes like adding an extra defensive dice out of turret arcs, for instance, drastically changes what ships are viable in a matchup.  Red dice per attack could be capped, leaving lots of ways to get creative and reach that max but still reign red dice creep.  Bumping could become relevant if new rules denied any dice modification if you bump, regardless of upgrades or ability.  Maybe rules can be tweaked in a way that green dice are valuable again and these low health, high agility slippery ships can spend some time on the table! A sweeping change to how the game is played (if done right) could taper some of the big monsters today without changing their stats, abilities, or points.  This would also be free to all players as long as you have access to the internet and would fulfill what a '2.0' is intended to do.

I'm personally a fan of the latter, as I really dislike the card bloat.  When little Timmy comes to play because he loves old school T-65 x wings he will need to buy an original core set for the model and rules, the integrated astromech expansion, and the new 2.0 kit that 'fixes' his brand new ship.  And that's just for a single piece to put on the table.  To me, this is a significant barrier to entry.

Edited by Test Pilot

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1 hour ago, lazycomet said:


If you really wanted a "slow roll" into 2.0, the first step is DIALS. Change nothing but the DIALS and this game does a complete 360.

And since so many OG players have worn/tattered dials anyhow, the new Dial Packs would be welcome... maybe.

 

360? So... back where we started? ;)

 

I'd like to see a change in the dice. More weapons like TLT.

Roll lots of dice to hit, then a separate way to work out damage (Or fixed damage). Opposite end of this would be less accurate attacks that do significantly more damage if it hits.

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2 minutes ago, Jedi1993 said:

360? So... back where we started? ;)

 

360 right back at 100pt 2player dogfights, yes. But having SPUN completely so as to take in information and start anew with heightened frames-of-reference.

It's not like 2.0 will 180 the game and make it about Resource Management and Worker Placement. ;)

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5 minutes ago, That Blasted Samophlange said:

 

I would also put my vote into a descent style 2.0.   

Keep as much as possible, but either have reissue cards, sending in your proof of purchases, and/or a sticker to make changes to existing.

 

This.  I knew there's a reason I've been saving all those **** proofs of purchase!!  

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Format? Descent 2.0 box set, with re-releases of core sets and skip reprints.

Core set includes all ship cost updates, one per pilot (and if they're really generous, a couple for generics, but don't get your hopes up), a new cars layout with a small version number in the corner, and explicit 'infectious' rules:

- Any old card is treated as the new card, with the highest version number taking precedence for rules, stats, and costs, but not making the old cardboard physically illegal

- if you have any 2.0 cards anywhere, you're expected to use ALL 2.0 cards where applicable - no cherry picking between versions allowed.

Tournaments, after the first year, start to expect the new version for official events. This is especially relevant once all reprints are now providing the updated cards (and possibly card mixes; eg, Tie Advanced all come with the card for their titles, even if you still but the raider to get Juno Eclipse).

These updates will in theory be developed with the benefit of hindsight... But if I'm honest, some of the recent pricing decisions make me wonder just which balance point they'd shoot for.

Really though, the advantage of this setup is that your future reprints can include errata and it updates players collections without invalidating their collection of cardboard. You do 2.0 once, and things improve apace front that point onward.

Certainly worth a shot, anyway.

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Since I don't see a 2.0 being a thing without a complete overhaul of the game mechanics using lessons learned... I think they would just re-release under a new name. You would need new cardboard and and cards, as well as, imo, new bases.

If they just wanted to adjust things like point costs or stat lines they would release an aces box with a surfeit of reprints. They already have their business plan for fixes, and its a new paint job on two ships with new cards.

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