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1 hour ago, gennataos said:

Some people like to try to shame other people into doings things while not doing those things themselves, because Vader or Anakin are more fun to play. 

The motivation seems to be to get others to play the paper to the metagame’s rock, so that they can play their own more-fun scissors list and not just get pummeled by rocks. 

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1 hour ago, Boom Owl said:

If you had to guess...what hyperspace ships would definitely go up or down in cost next pt adjust? 

Definitely Up:

  • B-Wing
  • RZ2A

Definitely Down:

  • Tie FO
  • Star Fortress
  • Resistance YT-1300
  • Named Torrents

Lots of stuff in the maybe up or down category as well but im interested in sure bets. 

I think, pending what comes out of the transport, these would have to go hand-in-hand.  If the A-Wings went up but there wasn't a significant enough shift with the other two (in tandem with the transport), Resistance is relegated to outlier status immediately.  I don't know where the magic spot is for all those points adjustments, but I do know the Resistance falcon feels like complete balls.

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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, gennataos said:

I do know the Resistance falcon feels like complete balls.

Hyperspace:

Position Ship Type
1 A/SF-01 B-wing
2 UT-60D U-wing
3 T-65 X-wing
4 TIE/ln Fighter
5 TIE Advanced x1
6 RZ-2 A-wing
7 BTL-A4 Y-wing
8 TIE Interceptor
9 Upsilon-class command shuttle
10 TIE Reaper
11 RZ-1 A-wing
12 Delta-7 Aethersprite
13 Fang Fighter
14 TIE/sa Bomber
15 T-70 X-wing
16 TIE/sk Striker
17 TIE/vn Silencer
18 Vulture-class Droid Fighter
19 ARC-170 Starfighter
20 V-19 Torrent Starfighter
21 TIE/sf Fighter
22 Sith Infiltrator
23 Modified YT-1300 Light Freighter
24 Firespray-class Patrol Craft
25 TIE/fo Fighter
26 Belbullab-22 Starfighter
27 StarViper-class Attack Platform
28 MG-100 StarFortress
29 Escape Craft
30 Customized YT-1300 Light Freighter
31 Modified TIE/ln Fighter
32 Z-95-AF4 Headhunter
33 Scavenged YT-1300

Extended:

Position Ship Type
1 TIE/ph Phantom
2 UT-60D U-wing
3 A/SF-01 B-wing
4 T-65 X-wing
5 RZ-2 A-wing
6 TIE Advanced x1
7 TIE/ln Fighter
8 Fang Fighter
9 BTL-A4 Y-wing
10 Scurrg H-6 Bomber
11 Modified YT-1300 Light Freighter
12 TIE Interceptor
13 T-70 X-wing
14 RZ-1 A-wing
15 BTL-A4 Y-wing
16 BTL-S8 K-wing
17 Z-95-AF4 Headhunter
18 Alpha-class Star Wing
19 Sheathipede-class Shuttle
20 TIE/vn Silencer
21 Lambda-class T-4a Shuttle
22 V-19 Torrent Starfighter
23 Upsilon-class command shuttle
24 Delta-7 Aethersprite
25 ARC-170 Starfighter
26 TIE/sf Fighter
27 ARC-170 Starfighter
28 HWK-290 Light Freighter
29 TIE/sk Striker
30 Vulture-class Droid Fighter
31 Lancer-class Pursuit Craft
32 Escape Craft
33 TIE/D Defender
34 Firespray-class Patrol Craft
35 TIE/ca Punisher
36 E-wing
37 TIE/fo Fighter
38 Sith Infiltrator
39 TIE Reaper
40 VCX-100 Light Freighter
41 Kihraxz Fighter
42 M12-L Kimogila Fighter
43 HWK-290 Light Freighter
44 Attack Shuttle
45 M3-A Interceptor
46 Modified TIE/ln Fighter
47 StarViper-class Attack Platform
48 Scavenged YT-1300
49 Customized YT-1300 Light Freighter
50 G-1A Starfighter
51 TIE/sa Bomber
52 MG-100 StarFortress
53 Belbullab-22 Starfighter
54 Quadrijet Transfer Spacetug
55 YV-666 Light Freighter
56 Aggressor Assault Fighter
57 JumpMaster 5000
58 TIE Advanced v1
59 VT-49 Decimator
60 Auzituck Gunship
61 Z-95-AF4 Headhunter
62 TIE/ln Fighter
63 YT-2400 Light Freighter
64 TIE/ag Aggressor
Edited by Boom Owl

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3 minutes ago, skotothalamos said:

Some people like to try to shame other people into doings things while not doing those things themselves, because Vader or Anakin are more fun to play. 

The motivation seems to be to get others to play the paper to the metagame’s rock, so that they can play their own more-fun scissors list and not just get pummeled by rocks. 

I...uh...haven't gotten a vibe that there's any motivation or subterfuge involved.  I just get the gist they're scratching their heads, wondering why thing X is happening or thing Y is not happening.  When they say "people", it sounds like they're talking about "other people" and not including themselves.  I'm not sure if that's intentional, incidental or accidental, but it gives the impression that "other people" are dumb and they're not...which I suppose creates a disconnect....?

That may be the most non-committal thing I've ever typed.

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1 minute ago, Boom Owl said:

Hyperspace:

Position Ship Type
1 A/SF-01 B-wing
2 UT-60D U-wing
3 T-65 X-wing
4 TIE/ln Fighter
5 TIE Advanced x1
6 RZ-2 A-wing
7 BTL-A4 Y-wing
8 TIE Interceptor
9 Upsilon-class command shuttle
10 TIE Reaper
11 RZ-1 A-wing
12 Delta-7 Aethersprite
13 Fang Fighter
14 TIE/sa Bomber
15 T-70 X-wing
16 TIE/sk Striker
17 TIE/vn Silencer
18 Vulture-class Droid Fighter
19 ARC-170 Starfighter
20 V-19 Torrent Starfighter
21 TIE/sf Fighter
22 Sith Infiltrator
23 Modified YT-1300 Light Freighter
24 Firespray-class Patrol Craft
25 TIE/fo Fighter
26 Belbullab-22 Starfighter
27 StarViper-class Attack Platform
28 MG-100 StarFortress
29 Escape Craft
30 Customized YT-1300 Light Freighter
31 Modified TIE/ln Fighter
32 Z-95-AF4 Headhunter
33 Scavenged YT-1300

Extended:

 

Position Ship Type
1 TIE/ph Phantom
2 UT-60D U-wing
3 A/SF-01 B-wing
4 T-65 X-wing
5 RZ-2 A-wing
6 TIE Advanced x1
7 TIE/ln Fighter
8 Fang Fighter
9 BTL-A4 Y-wing
10 Scurrg H-6 Bomber
11 Modified YT-1300 Light Freighter
12 TIE Interceptor
13 T-70 X-wing
14 RZ-1 A-wing
15 BTL-A4 Y-wing
16 BTL-S8 K-wing
17 Z-95-AF4 Headhunter
18 Alpha-class Star Wing
19 Sheathipede-class Shuttle
20 TIE/vn Silencer
21 Lambda-class T-4a Shuttle
22 V-19 Torrent Starfighter
23 Upsilon-class command shuttle
24 Delta-7 Aethersprite
25 ARC-170 Starfighter
26 TIE/sf Fighter
27 ARC-170 Starfighter
28 HWK-290 Light Freighter
29 TIE/sk Striker
30 Vulture-class Droid Fighter
31 Lancer-class Pursuit Craft
32 Escape Craft
33 TIE/D Defender
34 Firespray-class Patrol Craft
35 TIE/ca Punisher
36 E-wing
37 TIE/fo Fighter
38 Sith Infiltrator
39 TIE Reaper
40 VCX-100 Light Freighter
41 Kihraxz Fighter
42 M12-L Kimogila Fighter
43 HWK-290 Light Freighter
44 Attack Shuttle
45 M3-A Interceptor
46 Modified TIE/ln Fighter
47 StarViper-class Attack Platform
48 Scavenged YT-1300
49 Customized YT-1300 Light Freighter
50 G-1A Starfighter
51 TIE/sa Bomber
52 MG-100 StarFortress
53 Belbullab-22 Starfighter
54 Quadrijet Transfer Spacetug
55 YV-666 Light Freighter
56 Aggressor Assault Fighter
57 JumpMaster 5000
58 TIE Advanced v1
59 VT-49 Decimator
60 Auzituck Gunship
61 Z-95-AF4 Headhunter
62 TIE/ln Fighter
63 YT-2400 Light Freighter
64 TIE/ag Aggressor

Hah, yep.  Seems right.

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1 hour ago, Quack Shot said:

R5’s are also much worse

🤨 2-3 hp (R5 vs R5-D8) of hull regen (action req) + infinite ship crit repair (action based too) as long as the ship is alive without having your weapons forced offline (so you're actually able to keep shooting) vs 2-3 hp (R2 vs R2-D2) of shield regen that disables your attacks... Ya, I'm going to have to disagree with the "much" part. Slightly maybe, much no.

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Posted (edited)

Quick Comparison That I'm Sure Someone Has Already Made But I'm Too Lazy To Check!

Generic Resistance Falcon: 68 points

Generic Rebel Falcon (improved dial, improved rotate action, +2 shields, significantly widened pool of faction-specific upgrades/wingmates): 69 points

??????

And the difference in Hans is only 6 pts, which is insane when you'd pay more than that just to give Resistance Han an actual ******* pilot ability.

EDIT: and it's not like the Rebel Falcon is underpriced or tearing up the meta...

Edited by Maui.

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Definitely up: 

Lulo (obvious)

Ten and Braylen (Almost obvious)

Cassian (Less obvious)

Soontir (Don't kill me but he's obviously  Really Good at 52 points and Still Good at 54)

Wedge (See Soontir, +2 points won't take Wedge out of the game, just make him not the first and best choice all the time)

Definitely down:

Resistance YT (duh)

Torrents except the Gold (also duh)

Bellbullab (Maybe not Wat)

Scum Falcon (Maybe not Han)

All Mining Guild TIEs (even Seevor, by 1-2 points each)

Starfortress (though I don't think it's too far off just a little)

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4 hours ago, LagJanson said:

Somebody needs to introduce the natural predator of Beef to Italy. TIE Swarm to victory 

I was trying to convince my imperial teammates to play it, but they preferred soontir vader duchess... 

The funny thing is there were a couple of well known tie swam players at the tournament, but for some reasons they are mostly playing separatists now. 

 

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So as an Empire primary (shared with Republic now at near even split), I don’t really run TIE swarms.

And the reason is simple. It has nothing to do with perceived hard, or with not having ships, or only wanting ace play, or with time or any of the other reasons mentioned earlier. It’s far more fundamental.

I love list building. 

And the swarm is a ‘solved’ list. The preeminent version starts with Howl, Iden, Gideon, Del, and 60 points for the last two, often Wampa and Seyn. Sure there is some variation, maybe swapping in a Valen or Night Beast, even an Academy, to get one of the I5’s or select talents. But 2/3 of the list is basically fixed before I set up, and the last two don’t dramatically alter how to fly. It’s preference, and marginal returns.

And I just don’t want that. I enjoy theory crafting too much. Creating a list, theorizing how it flies, then putting that to practice. I lose half the game for me, and so the list just doesn’t inspire me.

Oh I use the TIE/ln, but rarely more than 3 in a list. And I don’t doubt I could do well with said list. But I’d rather enjoy the game more over having a more dominant, but personally unsatisfying, list.

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11 minutes ago, Sunitsa said:

I was trying to convince my imperial teammates to play it, but they preferred soontir vader duchess... 

The funny thing is there were a couple of well known tie swam players at the tournament, but for some reasons they are mostly playing separatists now. 

 

Kinda fits with the "Imperial players like aces" thing. It's their preference, and that's fine... but the swarm is so much stronger right now.

Also... droid swarms are way more fun. They don't seem to hang around in box formation for long. They are also terrible...

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27 minutes ago, LagJanson said:

Also... droid swarms are way more fun. They don't seem to hang around in box formation for long. They are also terrible...

They make you focus on the fundamentals of swarm play (blocking, overlapping arcs, range control) and work really hard for your victory. 

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Posted (edited)

In other news, Have you ever heard the legend of Darth Bumper the wise? I thought not, It's not a story the non-force users would tell you. Darth Bumper, the dark lord of actions, decided that he didn't need actions to deal damage, for he had the force, and a powerful ally it is. He could even fly with his trusty wingmates and Crit Handbrake Han to death.

Edited by FlyingAnchors

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Posted (edited)

Can we talk more often about target priority and your own shooting order?

Just now a situation on the SOS Malmö stream: Scum list vs Rebel beef list

Scum player does not lose a ship in the honorable joust. He has:

  • 3 R3 shots against Wedge
  • 2R2 and 2R1 shots against Cassian and Ten
  • 2 R3 and 2 R2 shots against Braylen

Important to note, one R1 shot against Cassian or Ten is with a Dorsal turret and one ion, the other Ion is one of the R2 shots.

First, target priority: Generally, he should be afraid of Wedge and he should remove Leia/Cassian. The latter has extra synergies with the Bwings, so he might even be the best target before looking at the specific situation.

Second, the shooting order as it happened:

  1. R2 by Drea on Cassian
  2. R1 ion carrier on Cassian with both shots
  3. R1 dorsal carrier on Cassian with both shots, Cassian dies
  4. R2 on Ten with both shots, does put a damage through with the ion cannon but can't ionize

Would the better order not have been the reverse? Start with the R2 to strip tokens. And then the very last attack is an ion cannon that anyway only deals 1 damage at most. If Cassian is already dead, a B-wing will most likely be ionized. If Cassian is on 1 hull, he will most likely die. If Cassian is above 1 hull, you should probably shoot a Bwingat range 1 to ionize.

Edited by GreenDragoon

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2 hours ago, GreenDragoon said:

Can we talk more often about target priority and your own shooting order?

Just now a situation on the SOS Malmö stream: Scum list vs Rebel beef list

Scum player does not lose a ship in the honorable joust. He has:

  • 3 R3 shots against Wedge
  • 2R2 and 2R1 shots against Cassian and Ten
  • 2 R3 and 2 R2 shots against Braylen

Important to note, one R1 shot against Cassian or Ten is with a Dorsal turret and one ion, the other Ion is one of the R2 shots.

First, target priority: Generally, he should be afraid of Wedge and he should remove Leia/Cassian. The latter has extra synergies with the Bwings, so he might even be the best target before looking at the specific situation.

Second, the shooting order as it happened:

  1. R2 by Drea on Cassian
  2. R1 ion carrier on Cassian with both shots
  3. R1 dorsal carrier on Cassian with both shots, Cassian dies
  4. R2 on Ten with both shots, does put a damage through with the ion cannon but can't ionize

Would the better order not have been the reverse? Start with the R2 to strip tokens. And then the very last attack is an ion cannon that anyway only deals 1 damage at most. If Cassian is already dead, a B-wing will most likely be ionized. If Cassian is on 1 hull, he will most likely die. If Cassian is above 1 hull, you should probably shoot a Bwingat range 1 to ionize.

That Scum list just won the whole event. He did a great job of keeping Drea's arc on target without the aid of a turret, while moving first against Phantoms.

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4 minutes ago, Maui. said:

That Scum list just won the whole event. He did a great job of keeping Drea's arc on target without the aid of a turret, while moving first against Phantoms.

He played it solidly, and I don't want to take away from his win.

But in my opinion, it was the Phantom player's game to lose, especially after the first engagement. He should have disengaged and maybe even split up with the decloak. His alternative of taking the obvious turn lost him the game.

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Posted (edited)
On 5/17/2019 at 11:56 AM, Boom Owl said:

Hyperspace:

Position Ship Type
1 A/SF-01 B-wing
2 UT-60D U-wing
3 T-65 X-wing
4 TIE/ln Fighter
5 TIE Advanced x1
6 RZ-2 A-wing
7 BTL-A4 Y-wing
8 TIE Interceptor
9 Upsilon-class command shuttle
10 TIE Reaper
11 RZ-1 A-wing
12 Delta-7 Aethersprite
13 Fang Fighter
14 TIE/sa Bomber
15 T-70 X-wing
16 TIE/sk Striker
17 TIE/vn Silencer
18 Vulture-class Droid Fighter
19 ARC-170 Starfighter
20 V-19 Torrent Starfighter
21 TIE/sf Fighter
22 Sith Infiltrator
23 Modified YT-1300 Light Freighter
24 Firespray-class Patrol Craft
25 TIE/fo Fighter
26 Belbullab-22 Starfighter
27 StarViper-class Attack Platform
28 MG-100 StarFortress
29 Escape Craft
30 Customized YT-1300 Light Freighter
31 Modified TIE/ln Fighter
32 Z-95-AF4 Headhunter
33 Scavenged YT-1300

Extended:

 

Position Ship Type
1 TIE/ph Phantom
2 UT-60D U-wing
3 A/SF-01 B-wing
4 T-65 X-wing
5 RZ-2 A-wing
6 TIE Advanced x1
7 TIE/ln Fighter
8 Fang Fighter
9 BTL-A4 Y-wing
10 Scurrg H-6 Bomber
11 Modified YT-1300 Light Freighter
12 TIE Interceptor
13 T-70 X-wing
14 RZ-1 A-wing
15 BTL-A4 Y-wing
16 BTL-S8 K-wing
17 Z-95-AF4 Headhunter
18 Alpha-class Star Wing
19 Sheathipede-class Shuttle
20 TIE/vn Silencer
21 Lambda-class T-4a Shuttle
22 V-19 Torrent Starfighter
23 Upsilon-class command shuttle
24 Delta-7 Aethersprite
25 ARC-170 Starfighter
26 TIE/sf Fighter
27 ARC-170 Starfighter
28 HWK-290 Light Freighter
29 TIE/sk Striker
30 Vulture-class Droid Fighter
31 Lancer-class Pursuit Craft
32 Escape Craft
33 TIE/D Defender
34 Firespray-class Patrol Craft
35 TIE/ca Punisher
36 E-wing
37 TIE/fo Fighter
38 Sith Infiltrator
39 TIE Reaper
40 VCX-100 Light Freighter
41 Kihraxz Fighter
42 M12-L Kimogila Fighter
43 HWK-290 Light Freighter
44 Attack Shuttle
45 M3-A Interceptor
46 Modified TIE/ln Fighter
47 StarViper-class Attack Platform
48 Scavenged YT-1300
49 Customized YT-1300 Light Freighter
50 G-1A Starfighter
51 TIE/sa Bomber
52 MG-100 StarFortress
53 Belbullab-22 Starfighter
54 Quadrijet Transfer Spacetug
55 YV-666 Light Freighter
56 Aggressor Assault Fighter
57 JumpMaster 5000
58 TIE Advanced v1
59 VT-49 Decimator
60 Auzituck Gunship
61 Z-95-AF4 Headhunter
62 TIE/ln Fighter
63 YT-2400 Light Freighter
64 TIE/ag Aggressor

How is the TIE fighter both 7th and 62nd on the extended list?

Nevermind. Forgot about the rebel and scum TIE.

Edited by AceWing

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3 hours ago, GreenDragoon said:

Can we talk more often about target priority and your own shooting order?

Just now a situation on the SOS Malmö stream: Scum list vs Rebel beef list

Scum player does not lose a ship in the honorable joust. He has:

  • 3 R3 shots against Wedge
  • 2R2 and 2R1 shots against Cassian and Ten
  • 2 R3 and 2 R2 shots against Braylen

Important to note, one R1 shot against Cassian or Ten is with a Dorsal turret and one ion, the other Ion is one of the R2 shots.

First, target priority: Generally, he should be afraid of Wedge and he should remove Leia/Cassian. The latter has extra synergies with the Bwings, so he might even be the best target before looking at the specific situation.

Second, the shooting order as it happened:

  1. R2 by Drea on Cassian
  2. R1 ion carrier on Cassian with both shots
  3. R1 dorsal carrier on Cassian with both shots, Cassian dies
  4. R2 on Ten with both shots, does put a damage through with the ion cannon but can't ionize

Would the better order not have been the reverse? Start with the R2 to strip tokens. And then the very last attack is an ion cannon that anyway only deals 1 damage at most. If Cassian is already dead, a B-wing will most likely be ionized. If Cassian is on 1 hull, he will most likely die. If Cassian is above 1 hull, you should probably shoot a Bwingat range 1 to ionize.

I didn't watch the game and also I might not have fully understood the question, but Cassion is always the priority target in any rebel beef that involves at least one of the 2 named Bs.

So if the question was "shouldn't he have shot Wedge?" the answer is no, Cassian is way more scarier since he actually enables Braylen and carries Leia (unless of course the opponent doesn't offer wedge on a silver plate to be shot at, but you can't count on that).

If the question regarded the order he took the shots at Cassian, then yes, probably he should have shot first with the R1 Dorsal carrier and only after that with the R1. My guess is he wasn't counting on the Dorsal carrier attacks being enough to secure it and wanted to kill Cassian rather than have him crippled and Ten ionized

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4 minutes ago, Sunitsa said:

If the question regarded the order he took the shots at Cassian, then yes, probably he should have shot first with the R1 Dorsal carrier and only after that with the R1. My guess is he wasn't counting on the Dorsal carrier attacks being enough to secure it and wanted to kill Cassian rather than have him crippled and Ten ionized

Both were questions. I agree on Cassian, but it is always interesting to hear reasons why.

The second question, on the order: I think he should have shot 1. Drea - 2. range 2 with ion - 3. range 1 with dorsal - 4. range 1 with ion.

 

As a more general question: When do you take range 1 shots or range 2 shots first? What is the reasoning for different situations? For example the number of your and their tokens, the amount of health remaining, or whatever else influences the decision.

As always, if the question is too open, feel free to add your own constraints to narrow it down.

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31 minutes ago, gennataos said:

What, generically from a tactical standpoint, screws with Rebel beef?  Asking for a friend. 

Attacking from multiple directions at range three so they have to either try to gun one ship down or split up their group.

If they focus one ship down, they're committing in one-ish direction and get hit hard from behind and the flank. 

If they split fire, their list becomes much less effective at actually blowing ships up.

You want to stay at range three because rebel beef agility is all low and you can plink them to death from a distance without putting any ship in a great deal of danger. 

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