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1 hour ago, jagsba said:

See also, advSlam Vynder moving last being brushed over because R2ID Han is worse.

Wait, are people serious in considering gunboat SLAM to be problematic? That’s not even on my radar...

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, PaulRuddSays said:

Wait, are people serious in considering gunboat SLAM to be problematic? That’s not even on my radar...

If Gunboat 3-turn, AdvSLAM 3-turn, Lock, still be able to fire torps or cannons isn't on your radar, then your radar is actually just an Asteroids game.

I get that it wasn't super-fun to have to be careful of being "Range 3 in-arc" of Action-bomb K-wings ... but they didn't have double-3-turns and double-modded torpedoes.

Edited by Jeff Wilder

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3 minutes ago, PaulRuddSays said:

Wait, are people serious in considering gunboat SLAM to be problematic? That’s not even on my radar...

its the biggest reposition in the game. It's pretty okay because the gunboats are low init. If a high init thing had slam it be broken AF.
Kind of like double reposition starvipers in 1e. If they moved last it wasn't really a game, but they were so low of a PS that so much moved after them and it never really became a problem.

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Gunboats I’ve always found super annoying, because they have just enough health to survive by 1 or 2 and then they’d be across the board. Not so much a problem now with half points, I’ll just move onto the next target and get the gunboat later.

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11 minutes ago, AEIllingworth said:

I would 100% take afterburners on academy pilots if it was initiative scaled. It is good at very low and high initiatives, so it would probably need a weird curve of cost and they have only done linear or slightly multiplicative costs so far. 

Have they really not done non-linear, non-multiplicative scales?  I suppose it does at least give people a chance to memorize costs.

Within that restriction, I'd think something like 3/4/5/6/7/8/9 would work okay.  Relaxing that restriction, I'd probably go for something like 3/3/4/4/6/8/10.

Your first sentence almost sounds like you're thinking that would be bad for the game, but I'd have no problem with seeing TIE/lns actually have a meaningful choice to take Afterburners.

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, GreenDragoon said:

Does that not indicate a lack of agency?

What is the difference to Handbreak Han?

 My original comment was in response to the final rounds of the final game of the Michigan Regional. My opponent was down to just soontir and  I still had 5 Tie fighters. The stream had no audio so you could not hear my opponent correctly guessing what many of the ties were going to do. It was clear he had only a few options and I could anticipate those, and he equal could anticipate how I would respond. Was there a decline in agency as each of our lists were whittled down? Of course.

 I don't believe flying a tie swarm robbed my opponents of agency.   there were many new and old players who had not encountered one before or in a while. I can think of at least two times in the eight games I played that an opponent made a mistake because they  we're not sure what to do.

Edited by Cr0aker

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2 hours ago, Jeff Wilder said:

I was sorta hoping that 2E would have committing to reposition being part of the activation phase.  (I say "sorta," because most people who have tried double repositioning ships with perfect information find it fun, because it successfully mimics skillful play.  I'm not immune to that.)  I really think it would help smooth out the ridiculous non-linear benefit of increasing Init.  But, well, so much for that.

Here's a head-scratcher for y'all, that we talked about a couple of podcast episodes ago: why is Afterburners not Init-scaled?

Yeah - on a similar level, moff jerjerrod has created some of my favorite gameplay out there.  A runewars style action decision when setting a dial would be interesting.

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3 hours ago, Jeff Wilder said:

Have they really not done non-linear, non-multiplicative scales?  I suppose it does at least give people a chance to memorize costs.

Within that restriction, I'd think something like 3/4/5/6/7/8/9 would work okay.  Relaxing that restriction, I'd probably go for something like 3/3/4/4/6/8/10.

Your first sentence almost sounds like you're thinking that would be bad for the game, but I'd have no problem with seeing TIE/lns actually have a meaningful choice to take Afterburners.

I guess I’m saying I would pay more for afterburners on an academy than a black squadron, but even more for it on Vader. 

 

Something like i0/1/2/3/4/5/6 costing 5/4/3/4/5/6/7 seems pretty close to playable at all levels?

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15 minutes ago, gennataos said:

People seem serious about repositioning being problematic. I’m not even sure what the game is some people appear to want to play. 

I pick my dials you picked your dials, who picked better?

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26 minutes ago, jagsba said:

I pick my dials you picked your dials, who picked better?

Combine that with the idea that 'balance' means as long as you count to 200 you have a competitive list and you've got a sure fire home run. What is FFG even doing?

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Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, gennataos said:

People seem serious about repositioning being problematic. I’m not even sure what the game is some people appear to want to play. 

I won’t defend ASLAM bombs, but I consider the gunboat to be pretty wholesome overall. It’s not high enough initiative to play with perfect info, and you have to make good (enough) decisions on your entrance... no barrel rolls to bail you out if you need to adjust. 

 

14 hours ago, Jeff Wilder said:

If Gunboat 3-turn, AdvSLAM 3-turn, Lock, still be able to fire torps or cannons isn't on your radar, then your radar is actually just an Asteroids game.

They don’t have tallons/ sloops / kturns... none of the cannons are scary enough that this is really a problem, and I’m not convinced that a torp is unfair because they don’t get to spend the lock. Plus, now they’re offset by the radius of the turn and have very predictable blues for the next turn. 

Maybe power creep changes this, but right now I can’t justify running any of them except Vynder, and even then it seems like it’s a downgrade except in a list like the Barons’ recent run. (And I effing LOVE gunboats.)

Edit - in contrast, I’m way more concerned for the potential of Sun Fac to be straight cancer. 

Edited by PaulRuddSays

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SLAM moving last is hilariously broken, but it's kept in check by not coming in flavors above I4 (except B1, as mentioned, with its single charge and drawbacks), so I5/6 can hunt it.

But that's an empty solace if you're running a list that doesn't have anything at I5/6... 

Which makes me wonder if they shouldn't have found a way to make SLAM happen in the end or system phase.

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