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23 minutes ago, Micanthropyre said:

I just don't agree that setting your maneuver doesn't really matter. It doesn't matter as much for turn 2 of the actual engagement, but there are a lot of tough decisions. Sometimes it's correct to dial in the straight so you get another shot out the rear arc, but now you are going to add an extra turn until you can get back into the fight. I don't know who you are playing against or what your success rate was, but each maneuver that I dial in feels significant.

Idk man...this reminds me of the old defense of Ghost Fenn or Final Form bc every maneuver felt significant...when in reality they matter way less than for other ships.

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5 minutes ago, MCRemix said:

Idk man...this reminds me of the old defense of Ghost Fenn or Final Form bc every maneuver felt significant...when in reality they matter way less than for other ships.

Sorta... for the I5s which I think could go up a combined 8 points and still be good. I don't think we are arguing the same points anymore so I'll clarify mine:

Lulo is undercosted but my fear is that his undercostedness is what is propping up Resistance. Neither of these things is good. 

The I1 Generic is probably fine where it is at.

Green Squadrons could probably go up 1 point so you can't play 5 with Optics, Heroic, and Crack Shot. Although it also might actually just be fine where it is.

Zari and Greer are really tough. They aren't played anywhere with success other than 5A which is strong but not OP. NPE is going to be a raging debate without any end.

Tali is undercosted but not nearly as badly as Lulo. 

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2 minutes ago, Micanthropyre said:

The I1 Generic is probably fine where it is at.

Green Squadrons could probably go up 1 point so you can't play 5 with Optics, Heroic, and Crack Shot. Although it also might actually just be fine where it is.

Zari and Greer are really tough. They aren't played anywhere with success other than 5A which is strong but not OP. NPE is going to be a raging debate without any end.

Tali is undercosted but not nearly as badly as Lulo. 

I fully agree with that. Maybe the i1 could also go up 1, Greer and Zari can also go up 1, maybe even 2. Tallie and Lulo as you say. If they went up a combined 8 (5+3 maybe?) that would maybe force Resistance to diversify.

An example is the Snap Jess Bastian Lulo list which already evolved into Tallie and maybe Nien or something alike. There could be more of these changes throughout the lists.

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18 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

I fully agree with that. Maybe the i1 could also go up 1, Greer and Zari can also go up 1, maybe even 2. Tallie and Lulo as you say. If they went up a combined 8 (5+3 maybe?) that would maybe force Resistance to diversify.

An example is the Snap Jess Bastian Lulo list which already evolved into Tallie and maybe Nien or something alike. There could be more of these changes throughout the lists.

If Tali/Lulo go up 8, and everything else goes up 1 you might kill 5A as a list, and probably kill it if Zari/Greer both go up 2. If this is a worthy objective, and I'm far too biased to tell whether or not it is, then this would probably be okay. Maybe 5x Greens with only Heroic on them could survive?

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2 minutes ago, Micanthropyre said:

If Tali/Lulo go up 8, and everything else goes up 1 you might kill 5A as a list, and probably kill it if Zari/Greer both go up 2. If this is a worthy objective, and I'm far too biased to tell whether or not it is, then this would probably be okay. Maybe 5x Greens with only Heroic on them could survive?

Greens going up just one means heroic+optics still works. And that is imo enough to compete, even if difficult. It also allows to add a/two blue to get Zari/Greer, maybe sacrificing a heroic on top.

Ideally all except lulo/tallie increase by 1 only, to allow different 5A builds. But the list remains playable as long as greens are 35 or lower.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Boom Owl said:

Its interesting to compare these two ships. Same init. About a 1 hp difference in terms of Durability. 34 vs 36 pts. Is Boost undercosted? 

3f7ad9efb4c5af8b4d1f5c07a3c7538b.png  784d00f653ff7cd58cb634c7a59e47c1.png 

 

 

1 hour ago, Makaze said:

I think this is a huge part of it. 2.0, with some notable exceptions, made dials matter more. RZ2s don't care as much about their dial as much as most 2.0 ships and so it seems like they should be paying a premium for that privilege and yet are dirt cheap

Is boost under-costed??

H**L Yes!!

Fixed it for you 😉

Edited by clanofwolves

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Posted (edited)

to me it's interesting that there is so much discussion about 5A in the first place. Maybe that really means it is a frustrating list to play against. I want to say it hasn't caught on too much, but that's not really true. It depends a bit on how you want to combine archetypes. Also this completely ignores the exact build. Now including Texas, I get 1154 lists. 24 are 5A. Here's the list of squads with 10 or more showings, which makes up half of the field (640/1154):

  • XXYU 44 + XYYU 22 + YYYU 19 + XXXU 15 (total 100)

  • YT1300 XY 30 + YT1300 XX 18 + YT1300 XU 13 (total 61)

  • 2xrz2awing 2xt70xwing 50

  • 6xtielnfighter 47

  • TIE salad 34

  • 5Y 23 + 4Y 11 (total 34)

  • 5A 24

  • 2 Deltas ARC 13  + 1 Delta 3 ARCs 10

  • /VN /SF /FO 22

  • XXY 21

  • XXA (resistance) 21

  • Firespray Fang Escapecraft 20

  • XAAA (resistance) 20

  • XXX (resistance) 20

  • XXU 18

  • XXXA (resistance) 17

  • Adv 4 TIEs 17

  • XXYY 15

  • T70 A Starfortress 15

  • XXXX (rebels) 14

  • 2 /FO / SF Ups 13

  • 2 Firesprays 12

  • /VN /SF Ups 12

  • YT1300 2 Fangs 10

Edited by GreenDragoon

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10 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

to me it's interesting that there is so much discussion about 5A in the first place. Maybe that really means it is a frustrating list to play against. I want to say it hasn't caught on too much, but that's not really true. It depends a bit on how you want to combine archetypes. Also this completely ignores the exact build. Now including Texas, I get 1154 lists. 24 are 5A. Here's the list of squads with 10 or more showings, which makes up half of the field (640/1154):

  • XXYU 44 + XYYU 22 + YYYU 19 + XXXU 15 (total 100)

  • YT1300 XY 30 + YT1300 XX 18 + YT1300 XU 13 (total 61)

  • 2xrz2awing 2xt70xwing 50

  • 6xtielnfighter 47

  • TIE salad 34

  • 5Y 23 + 4Y 11 (total 34)

These 6 lists are the ones more popular than 5A. I'd say that 5A has a favorable matchup against 4 ship rebel, TIE swarm, and Yions. TIE Salad with death troopers I've not played against but it seems hard for 5A to beat due to the troopers and Vader, and the YT builds will range from slightly favorable for the a-wings to slightly unfavorable depending on build. XXAA is probably dead even, maybe favoring XXAA slightly given equal pilot skill.

181 lists that don't want to see 5A, 111 where it's a tight matchup, and 34 that are unfavorable for 5A. 

The Kylo builds, Anakin/Ahsoka/2xGold, the Vader/Soontir/2x Bombers, and the Obi 3ARCs builds which are the matchups that 5A don't really want to see are not nearly as prevalent.

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11 minutes ago, Micanthropyre said:

These 6 lists are the ones more popular than 5A. I'd say that 5A has a favorable matchup against 4 ship rebel, TIE swarm, and Yions.

That's a really good point: it looks like 5A is so widely disliked because it's currently a great meta call and the most frequent list all have bad(-ish) matchups against it.

In my opinion that weakens the criticism a bit. Of course an alternative take away could be that 5A answers too many meta lists at once. Though I'm still not sure why we don't see more 5A if it's that good against everything.

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

In my opinion that weakens the criticism a bit. Of course an alternative take away could be that 5A answers too many meta lists at once. Though I'm still not sure why we don't see more 5A if it's that good against everything.

I'd guess that many don't want to own 5 A-wings which can be used only in this specific list (which night even get nerfed) and the most you'll ever use outside of that is 2-3. Rather fly something that's equally good and what they already have.

Edited by Pink_Viking

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2 minutes ago, Cuz05 said:

Because Fenn Rau :D

So sad but so true!

5 minutes ago, Pink_Viking said:

I'd guess that many don't want to own 5 A-wings which can be used only in this specific list (which night even get nerfed) and the most you'll ever use outside of that is 2-3. Rather fly something that's equally good and what they already have.

Also a good point. But at this point the list is infamous enough to justify the buy-in.

If that was the only reason then we wouldn't see so many Quad Phantoms either, right? But we do, so I don't really buy that argument.

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Posted (edited)

Lulo and Tallie should go up for sure. Tallie @ 40 points is till pretty awesome. 45 for lulo is probably okay too.

generics are probably fine as is, heroic should go up. raising everything shotgun style is probably a good way to kill the ship.

 

and we don't see more RZ2s because contrary to belief it can require skill to win with it.... unlike rebel beef

Edited by Wiredin

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

If that was the only reason then we wouldn't see so many Quad Phantoms either, right? But we do, so I don't really buy that argument.

Phantoms have been around a while tbf. I bought my 2 together, second hand, for 12 quid because why not?

Edited by Cuz05

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3 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

Interesting, so the secondary market  might have helped one of these lists?

Oh absolutely. The secondary market is quite strong. It lulled  as the changeover came up and bargains were had. Then with the kits, and meta, the models themselves gained a little value again. But it's still much cheaper than 2.0 models.

Basically because conversion kits. Big surplus of that stuff. I still have loads for ships I don't own.

And many ships without stuff......

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14 hours ago, GreenDragoon said:

Currently at 50/67, thanks! Is there a chance that you'll get more or can I pull it already?

 

Edit: and for everyone else

Anyone from New York or knows someone there? The trial from the weekend is at 10/52 lists on listfortress and it would be awesome if we could get some more lists filled in

You're good to pull it. 

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1 hour ago, GreenDragoon said:

That's a really good point: it looks like 5A is so widely disliked because it's currently a great meta call and the most frequent list all have bad(-ish) matchups against it.

In my opinion that weakens the criticism a bit. Of course an alternative take away could be that 5A answers too many meta lists at once. Though I'm still not sure why we don't see more 5A if it's that good against everything.

It's an excellent meta call. Others have already spoken as to why it might not be as popular, but I feel like it's been a little more popular lately and likely is on the upswing. If it gets too popular it might be time to take a serious look at playing two Jedi 😛

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54 minutes ago, Micanthropyre said:

It's an excellent meta call. Others have already spoken as to why it might not be as popular, but I feel like it's been a little more popular lately and likely is on the upswing. If it gets too popular it might be time to take a serious look at playing two Jedi 😛

Or some Nantex's if 5x RZ-2s is still strong come September. :) Sun Fac and the rest look like fun.

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55 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:

Or some Nantex's if 5x RZ-2s is still strong come September. :) Sun Fac and the rest look like fun.

That is going to be one seriously strange ship to fly. It can’t reposition without rotating the turret. I’m excited to try to make it work 

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